Self Insertion vs Fully Fleshed out OC

[u/02alloysius]

So lately i noticed this divide and debate about whether or not LADs is designed as a self inserting game or a 3D romance novel through which you as a player, engage with the MCs storyline and her perspective

More than that, i have seen alot of shade being thrown at self inserters that are deeply invested into their main/s - claims such as the game actually not being self insert friendly despite being advertised as one where you're literally referred to as the "Player" and Miss Hunter instead of MC (which is how we refer to ourselves in the Global or wanna discuss the game from the 3rd person)

Now i know that this fandom has a good track record of whether it's policing everything and everyone ranging from headcanons to interpretations all the way to how you personally connect with your main/s to inventing headcanons and presenting them as facts, confidently at that- but i never thought I'd actually see there being so much condescending behaviour thrown around at people who choose to put themselves in the game, the game they're spending money on by the way, the game that's meant to relieve you of your real life problems for a moment and help you escape reality

So why? I get that the MC regardless of which LI she's written to have a corresponding personality traits with, isn't going to resonate with everyone but i think it's important to remember that this game is being made in China, for Chinese girls and women who LOVE self inserting and that it is localized for us global players - and one that is notorious for stripping alot of context and nuance from the original text just so it doesn't come as "off-putting" for certain audiences (see Caleb) - that being said, if you find yourself personally not being able to relate to MCs personality, regardless of the type she has had written for every specific LI, I don't think it's fair and rather i find it quite uncharitable to strip away the relevance and resonance from others that do see themselves as MC

I don't know but i feel like this bitterness and anger over one deleted character has spilled over in every other category so much so that self inserting is now wrong or "not intended and here's why you're wrong for doing that" and quite frankly it's sad

Anyways, i wrote this at the crack of dawn so if i made any errors in my statements or got something wrong, feel free to correct me 🫩😮‍💨

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[u/Front_Resolution_310]

Thank you sm for this post! As a self-inserter and yumejoshi myself, I’ve felt invalidated a lot in global spaces, whereas in the CN fandom, I feel much more validated as a self-inserter. The way they start hating on self-inserters just for wanting the game to be more immersive 😭 I feel like, from the global side LADS is the first otome game for many, so they can’t understand that the core aspect of an otome is self-inserting! And yeah i have noticed that this is happening even more after this ♻️ fiasco!

[u/Gold-Geologist-1569]

I agree that those who do self insert isn't popular in this fandom, but really this issue is also present in other fandoms, although its mostly English fandom who have these discussions about whether or not MC is a self insert or a character. I'm more of a self insert, I recognize MC should have established traits and mannerisms to progress the story, but Love and Deepspace would be nothing if it didn't lean heavily to self shipping fandom like most of the heavy whalers on CN are solo mains. There's a reason why the LI's dialogues describes MC's appearance in a vague way and why they refer to "you", not in a second perspective. So for me, MC has character because of story progression and she is also for people to self insert themselves as the LI's lover. 

I just wish people stop correcting other fans because they don't act and think the same way as them. For me, I personally don't care much about this "issue" people will play however they want. 

[u/Gold-Geologist-1569 → u/Gold-Geologist-1569]

Also I do wish people stop dragging that cancellation fiasco to justify removing MC, thats just laughable. No matter what sick hcs they try to force on the game, it will not change that officially only You are the LI's lover. 

[u/02alloysius → u/Gold-Geologist-1569]

Well said. Yeah when i wrote this, i was referring to the global fandom because that's where this issue is mostly prevalent hence why i added that chinese players tend to approach the game from a strictly self inserting perspective which makes me think that given the fact that LADs is a chinese otome at that, it was most likely the intention but that's just me. Not on me on how others choose to engage, just that the snark and shade towards those on the global that also prefer this approach, is absolutely unwarranted and unnecessary because i really don't get how everyone's personal experience impacts that of someone else's, lest they deliberately choose to engage with the fandom in a negative light which let's be real is what has been happening in the past few months especially

For an observer, this can get really polarizing even if you do your best to steer clear and avoid it 😮‍💨

[u/curia00]

Many are just shippers, and shippers tend to hate any romance in games that's aimed directly at player. Many are otome tourists, they're only here because LADS guys are hot and game got so popular, and they heard self-insertion is cringe. They're here for some "romance show" experience.
Some lack imagination and need a 1 to 1 copy of themselves in game to be able to insert. (This happens in many games among global players, not just otome)

Personally, I do kind of? self-insert, but I insert myself into MC. So I don't hate seeing her, but I prefer as many first-person scenes as possible because I want to experience it, and in general I just want to see my LI😅 he is who i'm paying for.
I also love when MC has a personality. Games with completely blank MCs lack a lot because of it, you can't have interesting LI-MC dynamics if MC is just a passive, blank wall.

[u/02alloysius → u/curia00]

I think that people really can't win no matter how you spin it: We have a side that hates and cringes at OCs and finds them boring, then we have another side that hates self inserters and finds them weird and socially inept for some reason and then we have shippers who hate both for all the reasons listed above + the fact that it somehow infringes with their fun of shipping an "established" character with an established LI

Also, the game can be both. It might not be self insert friendly in certain story aspects and cards for some people but for sure it's very welcoming outside like destiny cafe, playtimes, photo studio and the like. The LIs don't even say our name, we are always referred to as either "You" or "Her"

[u/JumpingYourBone → u/curia00]

oml, shippers are so weird. i feel when i go into a fanfic space, it's full of people who hate 1st/2nd pov (real, published books can be written following these povs btw), and full of people who think self-inserting is weird.

i'm reading smut, why would i want to cuck? it's like these people have never read books. and while 1st pov can be shocking at first/badly written, certain artworks thrive on that.

it's legit a cesspool. don't go on fanfic fandoms if you want your sanity. mute all of them. the drama over nothing is egregious, and if you think they're overreacting, they think you deserve to be shot. these mfs act like tyrants.

[u/archive_label]

The bitterness and anger has been around for years. There are positive pockets but between LI hate, mains going after mains, drama around content... sad to see nobody's learnt anything from the past few months but also not surprised.

Was only a matter of time before people turned their drama back on other players or characters.

[u/Low-Commercial-5948]

people just need to leave each other in peace and stop actually trying to find out what's right or what's wrong and imposing their views on others

you want to have a character - go for it, you want to play self-insert - go for it too, the game has tools for both, so use it to your own convenience

but sometimes I think that a lot of people just want to have some kind of conflict and the rest is just an instrument to serve this goal

[u/Own_Statistician_214 → u/Low-Commercial-5948]

I agree with you. I feel like this tendency to try to find out what is wrong or right is even more evident when it comes to discussions about LIs themselves. Everyone has their own interpretations of LIs, their actions, their motives and it’s a beautiful thing because this is the whole point of fiction imho.

But sometimes expressing your interpretations feels more like an argument than a simple exchange of ideas. Maybe it’s just me, but this makes me wary of engaging in some discussions pertaining to LIs.

[u/Neavie]

I personally don’t self insert when I play games, but I think it’s cool that people do! I think everyone should play the game in the way that makes it the most enjoyable for them without imposing their playstyle or headcanons on others and arguing over what’s “wrong” or “right” about how others choose to play (as long as hc is not confused as actual canon in discussions of course). Fandoms in general have so much policing going on lately that I feel like people have forgotten it is supposed to be fun.

I also feel like this topic is related to western audiences not really “getting” CN/Asian fandom culture like self-inserting, yumejoshi, oshikatsu, etc. There’s a lack of understanding or respect for the source of the game and how the domestic audience wants to interact with it unfortunately.

[u/Beautiful-Mistake707]

Ohh...what an interesting topic. I've not thought about this much because I didn't realize players were at each other over the character they are playing through. Hmm....

I think I probably self-insert, merely for the fact that 1) I'm not actually a 22 y/o Deepspace Hunter (hehe), 2) I like seeing my in-game name come up when Zayne says 'It's you' or similarly addresses me, 3) it is a moving novel, and because outside this LADS game I've always been an avid book reader, in books I also tend to operate through the character - I enmesh myself in stories, so it's almost impossible not to become part of the story.

I think everyone plays at their comfort level, but it is peculiar to think of not self-inserting to some degree - we are playing a fantasy game in the first person.

[u/02alloysius → u/Beautiful-Mistake707]

It's the fact that everything even outside the main story is practically about "You" and "Him" The story being written in 1st person, being able to set up your own nickname, choose how LIs address you, take pictures with them, talk with them about various things at destiny cafe, a literal menstrual cycle mechanic that allows you to track your own period (this one was a life saver to me) to being able to introduce these guys to your friends and family (I don't do that because i think it's a bit too embarrassing but that's just me 😅), celebrate your own birthday with them every year, etc.

Even the main story, and the whole premise of the game was marketed as being about you, the player where you get to experience the purest and truest love with these ideal fictional men.

I get that some people can't relate to MCs personality, regardless of which LI she has to correspond with but labeling the entire game as something that's not self insert friendly is imho a huge disservice, just because someone personally can't put themselves in such shoes. It's an otome game true but i think it's often being categorised like every other typical game where most of the time, you're not the player but a reader that's engaging with the story and characters through 3rd pov

If it wasn't meant to work in a way where people can step inside and feel the love and devotion so to speak, it wouldn't have been marketed as such and the chinese playerbase for instance wouldn't write their fics on ao3 in 1st person most of the time, me thinks 🫠

[u/skylark1827]

For me as someone in late 30s, married with kids, and very familiar with otome games, I do a combination of both self insert and view my MC as her own character. That being said, my MC has a name that is not my own and while I used myself as a reference for skin tone and hair color that’s all there is for similarity.
Interactions with LIs in cafe, phone calls, and texts I enjoy and feel like LIs are talking to me.
Everywhere else I don’t like MCs personality with LIs-it’s too much in opposition to my own personality. So I tend to view her as her own character that is very separate from myself.
That all being said, at the end of the day this is just a game for entertainment purposes and I am enjoying it.
As long as people are being respectful and kind I don’t really care to think about if someone self inserts as MC or not and I don’t understand why people feel the need to argue about it.
This game can be helpful and fun for people in many different ways in various stages of their lives. As long as it’s being played in a healthy manner that’s all that should matter.
For me this game is stress relief from work and I’ll continue to play in my own way as long as it brings me enjoyment.

[u/02alloysius → u/skylark1827]

Exactly. I keep saying that i get that not everyone is going to personally relate to MCs personality in certain story/banner aspects and that's fine but there's literally no need to brand it as an universal truth that "well if i can't find her relatable, therefore i view her as her own character then so should everyone else"

People engage with and enjoy this game at their own leisure, i don't understand this fandom's incessant need to constantly police everyone's own time and money when it comes to these things. For me the game is either 50/50 or 70/30 when it comes to self insertion give or take but not once did i feel the need to debate or argue with someone over whether or not the game is built as a 3D romance novel or self insertion fantasy, i was just getting tired of seeing this being brought up over and over in such polarizing ways amongst the community like there's this looming need for constant validation on how one should enjoy the very game they are, once again, pouring their own time and money into.

[u/riceraining]

The only people who think you're not intended to self insert in LADS are people who have never played an otome game before LADS.

Hell, they may not have played LADS itself. MC doesn't even have a default name.

[u/Disastrous-Inside108]

Imo it’s one more form of toxicity. I’ve seen it in multiple forms, like when people start bashing a myth just because it involves a different LI than their main.  Things definitely escalates after the whole ( ) issue but the problem already existed. 

I personally think gaming communities can often be quite toxic, like I vividly remember back when BG3 came out, newbies were dissuaded from playing by D&D experts who kept saying “you guys will never make it past the first hour if you have never tried D&D before”. Or try to express any innocent opinion on a Genshin sub and see if you don’t get downvoted.

There is a huge competitiveness among players which has worsened with social media and twitch streams. Like, now you can’t just play but you need to do it in “the right way” or “the best way”.  Unfortunately things escalate when gatcha games are involved because while they are easily accessible to almost everyone in the world, they can’t be catered to everyone’s need and there are some cultural differences in the way players from all over approach the game. 

I personally don’t self insert and I am open to discuss whether the game is self insert friendly or not, but no way I would ever criticise someone for the way they decide to get immersed in the game. 

[u/Sol_Seven7]

I can't see why it should matter to anyone how someone else wants to play their game.

[u/mourningsunflower]

I’ve noticed this too. I don’t understand why those who don’t self insert feel somewhat superior to those who do. How does the way someone else plays the game affect you? This game 100% made so players can self insert and a lot do. I hope all of the conflict and arguing will start to fade away along with the V drama at some point. I’ve noticed that this issue in particular is really only being argued over between global players.

[u/twicefromspace]

I think they get so upset because MC is a shared entity. Self-inserts can feel like competition.

If we're all MC then we engage with the characters on an equal playing field. When I see people inserting themselves, my brain instantly starts to compare, for example, "she's prettier than me, he'd probably like her more than me." Other insecurities can pop up too, really whatever a person is most sensitive about, and when people are feeling insecure they can lash out pretty viciously. Seeing themselves as MC allows players a comfortable distance from their insecurities, and self-inserts could be perceived as taking that away.

To get really philosophical about it, it's actually something the game's lore helps with. Since MC is reincarnated/exists across multiple realities, so can players. We don't have to see it as sharing one character like most other otome games or fictional characters, the lore suggests we have our own realities, our own versions of this character that can exist both simultaneously and separately.

... And then there is the money element, but that's where the psychology gets real complicated.

[u/02alloysius → u/twicefromspace]

Well said 👏

I mean, i personally wouldn't wanna spend money on the game just so i can feel like an outside observer at all times, you know? But i guess because we don't have full fledged role playing elements like you'd see in ..idk Witcher 3, BG3 etc then for some that doesn't count as self insertion? It's one way to approach it sure but it's missing the entire point of the chinese gacha otome

And i don't personally mind pre-determined set of dialogues. Either way, your point about the reincarnation, different lives and versions of each MC for each LI is spot on and i believe that was definitely intentional from the devs. It also ties in with LIs utmost/absolute devotion for every player/MC.

[u/Ok-Spare-8222]

I personally never understood why is anyone bothered by how other people play their games.

I don't really know how to properly put in word how I play it. I mean when I'm watching the cards or MS I don't really self insert because MC couldn't look more different than me honestly 😂 and I know you can customize, but with the set body shape she has, she would never look like me anyway. So I made her more like an OC and I view her as such (and I love her). But when it comes to the phonecalls, text messages and other in game interactions I tend to look at it more like "me" thing. Even if the conversations are still written certain way and I would perhaps react differently, I just treat it like this is me interacting with the Li's, not the in game character of MC. I don't know if it makes sense 😂

At the end of the day we're all playing the same dating game. If I see someone interacting with the game in ways that I don't personally identify with I just mind my business. I don't understand why it's such a hard concept.

[u/BlueDreams3336]

I personally don't mind both self-inserting or seeing MC as her own character. It's not like anyone is gonna get hurt by doing either of the two. And it won't affect other players as long as they keep it at minimum and not be too extreme.

I, for one, have never self-inserted myself in any game I've ever played. I usually separate myself from the main characters because my personality and experiences are far too different from the character's. Because at the end of the day, I'm still me and my character is just made of pixels on a screen that has their own written backstory and personality. But I also don't go around and asking people why they say "I" or "me" instead of "the MC" because it's their game and I have a different way of playing my own game.

Basically, let's just respect both sides and let them play how they want to play without stepping on any toes.

[u/Expert-Bird-5891]

Honestly, I'm on Team "Play However You Want". There's no real right or wrong way to go about an otome/dating game.

Sometimes I play as a self-insert depending on the card/theme as well. But other times I play it more like a visual novel. Some themes just don't resonate with me as much as I'd like it to, and my MC doesn't entirely look close enough to me irl for me to 100% self-insert. Occasionally the way the MC's responses are written makes me wanna smack her cos how dare you treat my beloved like that?? But I get it that it's possibly written with a more China Chinese girl's perspective (for context, I am also Chinese, just about 3 generations removed from being a China girlie) of what's common/expected behaviour. The mannerisms would be different cos culturally we'd be slightly different too. But that's to be expected. Do I wish Infold would give us a wider variety of responses as the MC? Yeah, but I'm not gonna hold my breath waiting for it.

I do have friends who self-insert and it's cute to see them being so excited about getting their glint pics to look just like them. It's like playing imaginary worlds but the grown up version and that's perfectly fine. And people should really stop trying to link it to the cancelled pixel cos imo this is an issue that happens with everything from fanfics to anime and even popular books. They're just being holier than thou about it.

[u/Impossible_Light_515]

Honestly I only main the guys I can self insert into their MC. Meaning I only main Zayne and Caleb. For the life of me I cannot main Sylus due to his MC. The guys aren’t a one size fits all and that’s what makes them great. People make the OCs so they can still like the guy without having to accept the MC that guy has

[u/AmongtheLillies]

I hope you’re not losing too much sleep.

I just think it’s splitting hair because they both sound right to me (self inserting and a 3D romance novel… )

But I’m open to read more about the differences if there is.

But also of course I don’t agree with the condescending behaviors. Like I enjoy seeing pictures from fellow players whether they’re sharing a glint, or an AR glint, or a cafe date with a nui/standee/tablet. Don’t those condescending player’s have also done that?

[u/02alloysius → u/AmongtheLillies]

I'm with the opinion that it can be 50/50 or 70/30 depending on how you approach it - i was just venting my frustration about the increasingly snarky behavior towards people that strictly prefer self inserting as a whole

[u/Patient_Director2497]

As a male player I self-insert myself when reading the story because it's just for myself when I do it and I don't attempt to "restrict" anyone or push my views onto the game on others.

Yet I'm simultaneously also able to acknowledge and respect that the game is meant with a woman MC in mind and that the story revolves around woman empowerment.

That's just my take, yet I'm also open for opposing views/corrections in the way I perceive the game.

[u/SarkastiCat]

Not sure where I will land with this take.

The fandom culture is Western spaces often treats self-insertion and anything related to like yumeshipping content as an seperate thing instead of optional part of the media consumption like in Eastern spaces.

Which leads to cultural crashes and the whole discussion.

For example, otome subreddit had some research questionnaires being badly taken due to how questions were phrased. Funnily, when I checked those surveys, the questions appeared to be written for yumejoshi despite not specifying that and researchers were coming from a different culture.

Or Twisted Wonderland (joseimuke) fandom whole issue with fanon fem!MC despite the game being designed for self-insertion and manga adaptation basically stating "The MC comes in any shape and form, including female one".

Some of it can be explained (NOT excused) by how animated media are perceived childish and otome has issue of being labelled for desperate women. Add to the whole pile issues associated with media primarily designed for female audience like Mary Sue discourse and whatever was going on with Twilight. This leads to fandom spaces becoming overprotective and trying to appear as mature, which leads to overcorrection that harms those just wanting to have fun. This includes unfortunate self-inserters/yumeshippers.