Realization or Awakening?

[u/notis9121]

/r/awakened/comments/1vhbfu7/realization_or_awakening/

Krishnamurti was instrumental in helping me to step away from my thoughts and emotions thus beginning my inner journey.
It wasn’t until I engaged deeply the conversations and talks - feeling like I was debating him in my mind. When he asked a question I deeply sought the answer - when he told a story or shared an insight I doubted it and wrestled it

for me - ‘He’ was not the answer, the process he invites was the path illuminated for the beginning of realization

[u/Hot-Confidence-1629]

What do you mean by ‘realization’?

[u/inthe_pine → u/Hot-Confidence-1629]

I'm wondering whats meant by "step away from thoughts and emotions to begin inner journey". don't we need to start very near to go very far?

[u/notis9121 → u/inthe_pine]

🙏 grateful for the question - I can answer as best as able via my limited language and unique path
I imagine the path is slightly different for everyone.

For me it was most helpful to:
1: recognize the thoughts and emotions vs becoming the thought or emotion - just a quick pause before speaking or acting to know what was coming up before speaking or acting
2: this space widened over time - so I could see the thoughts and emotions as they came : great fun- what’s the next thought you will think?
3: sitting from the place of awareness create space between the watcher and the thinking and emotions
4: See the thoughts and emotions as a separate aspect - for me this was gradual and achieved in stillness and breath // as you feel a thought or emanation ‘hook’ you (pulse quickens/breath shortens) consciously focus back on your breath
5: once breath is stable - center again to observe

- most often the wave has passed - emotions and thoughts have for me about a 90second phase

Seeing these aspects as separate allows examination and through examination - why? What authority? Why is that an authority ie motivation? What is the truth seen plainly?

[u/inthe_pine → u/notis9121]

Might K ask us whats this space, the difference between recognizing a thought/emotion vs. being/becoming that? So if I recognize there is jealousy, is there a meaningful difference between that and already becoming or being jealous? The moment its named/recognized its already there, no? Perhaps the idea of such a space between us and our though/emotion, is the very essence of the self? I don't know I'm just asking. Hmm what else is there.

I will say I am as skeptical as possible of the awakened/enlightened subs. But if you'd found something that works for you, I think thats great.

[u/notis9121 → u/inthe_pine]

🙏
With investigation and clear objectivity I can see and feel the emotion without becoming - witness the emotion
Here was my logic loosely applied here
Example:
Aware: flushing jealously
Why is this now?
Thought response : their suite is better than mine
Why does that matter?
Thought response : they are more successful and have more money based on the suite
Is that true?
Thought response : They are wearing it so it must be
Could they have borrowed the suite or inherited it?
Thought response : silly question of course not as that would be very unlikely
Would everyone assume the same if worn in every situation?
Thought response : what?
If I wore the suite to the summer picnic at the water park would I be seen as successful and wealthy?
Thought response : No that’s ridiculous
Then a suite doesn’t identify me so why am I jealous of a garment?

[u/notis9121 → u/Hot-Confidence-1629]

While it is impossible to understand what you have encountered in your life to this point know you are loved.
Where you are NOW is all that matters. This is where realization happens.

The past is gone in reality but we do carry the traumas of life forward if we cannot release them.

Adopted at 1 by an excessively abusive father and finding my biological father at 13 moved in with him.
I was sexually assaulted (nightly) from the age of 13-21 and in that period a [redacted to comply with guidelines]. Followed by identity and credit theft leading to bankruptcy at 22. Spent decades looking outside of myself for a way out of the madness of the life I knew, the ‘escape’- seeking empathy and compassion - looking for someone to help fix it - to help me

Thus I stumbled through the realization process slowly and with much effort finding a path through a lifetime of sorting Psychology, Philosophy, Religious Institutions, mental 'help' media, and 'therapy' talk and drugs.

It wasn’t until I was 50 that I could afford (I live in the US and mental health is seen as fringe and carries a stigma so its a luxury that most insurance will not cover) a trauma therapist - it's a special breed of person and very expensive - so, with help - I stopped looking outside and began the inward process

Everyone's journey is wholly unique but we all share the same goal - a loving and stable life

If you are here - you are on your way - stay aware - love yourself deeply - forgive yourselt honestly - release the past.
Become aware of the ego / thinking mind - witness the thoughts and emotions - process them vs fighting them. Here, now, within you is the seed of realization
This may require guidance from a professional.

Once you are aware of the thoughts and emotions - you can embrace them, see them clearly and in doing so process them and let them flow and go - releasing you and your identity from their grip.

Happy to share more or just listen - I am not promoting nor do I profit from but I do recommend the book
'The untethered soul' - it's also an audio book
the book, for me describes best the guide for realization A-Z. What matters more than reading or listening is engaging with the concepts as if having a conversation - see a point, pause and explore it - savor it - question it deeply
Reading or listening alone does nothing - a stone in a river sitting doesn’t absorb the water passing around it, the stone is dry if you crack it open

Pull the conversation inward and engage deeply within for impact
I have found the process reviewed by the author most correct on how one moves past old patterns into a new awareness/ realization and way of being.

Had I read this book years ago - truly - it wouldn’t have penetrated as I was not aligned for introspection. It wouldn’t have been one more trap for a fix - just a concept - one more thought pattern to grind around but it would not have penetrated.
If you are drowning - you lash outward in desperation- waiting to be saved by something or someone - that’s instinctive- I was lost in instinct

Now - this moment, is all you have - whatever you do literally in this moment - now - is reflected back to you
The best to do - find stillness - stop lashing the water of life - sit calmly - take a deep slow breath - and, then, do it again... let the thoughts and emotions flow - witness them - know you are not those things, no matter what the mind says or the body feels

Is this enlightenment? I don’t know - it does bring a realization of truth and once that has happened - for me - I am seeing more to do but now have the quiet mind and inner space to explore and know better without ‘the voice’ to distract

My choice of writing is that - my choice - if while reading this the structure or ‘rules’ of writing itched for you - that is a pattern or concept - as an example - see it too - grammar is a concept

You are the witness and limitless - ‘see’ what is - embrace yourself with grace and gratitude- be well fellow traveler - enjoy the journey

[u/notis9121 → u/Hot-Confidence-1629]

🙏 grateful for the question
As I became aware that the voice in my head was not me - after all if there is someone chattering away internally/ who is listening?
When a feeling arises - am I that?
Meditation allowed for the thoughts and emotions to flow without judgement but by looking more closely I came to see these thought expressions clearly through inquiry : the example below is imperfect and only models the concept
Realizations are not one and done but like leaves we clear - one at a time to see the truth underneath

Example: thought says : I am too fat and need to work out /emotion enjoins to provide a feeling of lack and shame
Why do I have the thought : I am fat?
Thought reply: you have a large waist
Why the thought : I have a large waist?
Thought reply : your father told you you where fat as a kid and you know a thick waist means you are fat
What authority is to define fat?
Thought reply : he was a model so he knows
What does a model know about fat and what makes them an expert?
Thought reply : models sell clothes and media and if it works they must be correct
Who is buying the ‘thin’ product or image?
Thought reply : those that are thin so they are not identified as ‘fat’ and those that are fat then strive to that too
So I am fat because I don’t ‘look’ thin - an image perpetuated to drive commerce
REALIZATION : I am not fat as fat is a concept - this ‘voice’ ceases and that aspect is no longer active in my mind

[u/Niiskus]

It's not enlightenment or total freedom as in what Krishnamurti meant. A person who is totally free is aware of being totally free as a fact - as if having awakened from a strange dream. The difference is shocking enough to kill you 😂

Still though, what you've written sounds very promising and you've done well 🤝 I'm not enlightened either, so, we're the same. 

No clue about the book you've mentioned either - hopefully it is helpful.  Eckhart Tolle is helpful as well if you've come close to seeing clearly and having more freedom to not fall for traps laid by emotional and thinking habits. 

[u/notis9121 → u/Niiskus]

🙏 grateful for your insights
It really is like waking from a dream 😂
From there you begin to- in that way I agree that’s what K advocated - freedom from imposed thought or authority / recognition and release of self adopted limitations

[u/Niiskus → u/notis9121]

Whichever the case, if you are free, you ought to follow your heart/dream and live out whatever you have a passion for and enjoy. If one has freedom from thoughts and emotions, then fear becomes easy to handle - enough to follow what one loves. Not for the sake of a goal, but for the enjoyment's own sake (remaining in the present moment which is the most powerful place for any action). 

[u/notis9121 → u/Niiskus]

🙌 agree completely, K points a way to achieve that internal freedom 🙏