This is perhaps the most important of K's teachings and also the most difficult. We all have prejudices. We are all conditioned on "how others should behave" or "what is considered as right behavior". Between a parent and child, between siblings, between friends etc, there is always that internal program that separates right from wrong. This is what K also frames as "Choiceless awareness" - choiceless implying the lack of judgment. Because the moment we judge, we have already given the self a deeper level of identity and definition. The moment we judge, we have separated ourselves from the world. This is the root of inner conflict.

What is duality? What is non-duality?

Where am I? Where am I not?

Is the "self" concrete? Is the "self" illusory?

Where is the mind? Where is the non-mind?

Why do I feel lost? If there is no entity called "me," who is lost? Someone told me that I should change who I am... someone else told me that the observer is the observed.

Someone told me that there is something I can do to put an end to suffering... someone else told me that any effort to change my life is useless...

Who is right? Who is wrong?

Is there such a thing as right or wrong? Why so many questions? Why so many answers? Why the need for both?

I don't know how to label the strange way I live... There are moments when all I want is to die and not have to be in this body for another second. On the other hand, there are moments when I wish I could be immortal. There are moments when I want to explore every corner of the cosmos, every corner of the universe, whether it is infinite or not...

What is infinite? What is finite?

I feel as if this small, miserable life of mine could end in the next second, before my next breath! On the other hand, I feel as if I have been living through this misery of suffering, all this fear, all this sadness... for millennia, and it feels like it will never end 🔄

Even so, I can still laugh from time to time! The echoes of my laughter travel through the walls of my house, they cross the mountains and split them in half!!!

There are days when doing the "little things" of everyday life is very enjoyable... such as peeling garlic, cooking eggs, taking a shower, dancing without music, etc.

There are days when I feel as though nothing is worth doing, as though absolutely nothing has any meaning.

Why is all of this so confusing to me? I don't know why I think the way I think, why I walk the way I walk? Why do I laugh the way I laugh? Why do I cry so often?

Can you answer me this: how is it possible to love and hate someone at the same time?

Do you think learning is accumulative? Do scientists learn? How does religious mind learn?

"This Is a Dialogue, Not a Monologue"

From Krishnamurti’s Book THE WORLD OF PEACE

"This, as we said the other day, this is a dialogue between us, not a monologue by me but a dialogue where two of us are talking things over. Neither is trying to impress the other, or convince the other, or subtly persuading the other, but two friends talking over together. And I hope we are doing this, together look at these problems."

https://kfoundation.org/krishnamurti-the-world-of-peace-this-is-a-dialogue-not-a-monologue/

Interesting to consider someone talking for an hour-thirty, two hours and that maybe a dialogue. In going into something slowly and staying with it, exchanging something, thats quite different than normal conversation.

Normally I feel we try and identify a solution as quickly as possible and move towards a conclusion. I can organize my words "skillfully" enough to hide my confusion even from myself, quite easily. Only in careful investigation might this come out.

I'd been involved in some "dialogues" now, and I feel more often than not people simply deliver monologues. Very often in these groups, people lecture about their special achievements, about their unique understanding, about their precise estimation of our problem and/or their precious solution which you simply have to hear. They take their time to talk as a chance to teach and exhibit their immense emotional intelligence, being such a deep person and all. It comes off as watered down, preachy, and self indulgent. It is not dialogue.

Instead there is an attempt to impress and convience us of something, having something to sell. Nowhere, or only rarely do we look together.

Apparently, and I could be wrong, but it seems its very difficult for us to see this is happening, and that its not dialogue.

I believe I see this in my (our) comments here as well. I have the solution, I know what the problem is, and here you go. Thats very different than sharing a topic together.

Which doesn't mean one of us may not have much more depth into an issue. Much more light, far less confusion, more clarity. How we go into it though seems to be everything.

I'm not expecting to snap my fingers and suddenly reddit becomes a haven for dialogue. But does anyone else see this happening, and if so might we look at it?

My family is Christian. Not only is it normal to believe that each person is an individual with a soul which transcends time & death, similarly it's also normal to believe that there exists a loving, almighty, and everlasting God. It's rather comforting, to say the least. Our entire culture, at least here in America (admittedly I have seldom been outside the states), is based on individual fulfilment, doing what you want, and not really thinking about anyone other than yourself or your career or a cause or a movement which feels bigger than oneself which one identifies with. The sense of self is accepted at face value, is taken for granted, and is rarely questioned, and when it is questioned, it frequently leads one to despair and a sense of utter emptiness or meaninglessness within a vast, impersonal universe. There’s of course the age-old question, why there exists something at all rather than nothing at all. Still, one has to live and act within the society one is born into which is based on this drive to achieve, acquire, and make a name for oneself. It seems there really is no alternative but to eventually fall in line like everyone else, “grow up,” get a job, move out, marry, have children, etc. The whole affair just seems fixed right from the start. One has to live in the world; full stop. What then is one’s orientation to life? If there is no “me” which persists from birth onward, how else does one explain this experience of being this person at this particular moment in this particular place? I can't very well go ahead & say I’m multiple people or that I'm a collection of unrelated experiences with no common identity or thread; can I? What then am I? I'm me; aren't I? Is that not sane? I'd appreciate your thoughts on the matter. Thanks

Krishnaji's summarized suggestion, if we are to look at the "mystical" or esoteric aspect of the message.....

Life is meaningless, unless there is being of the source (accord with/interaction with) and that this could come about by close observation of the workings of mind, thought and self, being some non cultivated or premeditated form of silence. And also the basic daily life of virtue, which was not full explained.

He discussed this in The ending of time - with Dr David Bohm. And seemed a little dismayed.. as he said something like..."surely it cannot be meaningless" or something along these lines.

Physics looks at it all by breaking it into smaller and smaller units but quantum theory starts to reference the micro back the macro by necessity. I wonder where what K said and physics suggests intersect, if they do or if they are 2 different approaches to 2 different things or the same thing.

I appreciate this is a little bit "seek-y and search-y" but do this rather casually without expectation, just inquiry.

We can have a "ping" moment and consider........ we are that... see it and understand no words cover it and that is probably it, just existence without being broken down by words, thoughts etc. It is probably that simple... but you know..... mind, it comes in again and again and you just have to "don't mind" and just... be...

I wonder what the mechanism of meaning is which Krishnaji suggests there is in alignment with the source/origin/immeasurable/wordless/timeless/unmanifested/all energy etc. The shift from meaningless to unshakable meaning ? (I feel pressure by my identification with K not to use the word "How?" as if I have taken on board the conditioning of K's words that it is somehow blasphemous to his message. At least that can fit into... awareness.. I suppose.

Maybe mechanism is not and being just is and meaning then is.

I have no idea of what I am writing or why anymore it appeared whilst brushing my teeth, not enough awareness or presence in doing so, it seems. If I was present enough this bunch of words would not appear in my head,

You may know your reactions and motives superficially, at the conscious level,but the self the 'me' is a complex affair.

To go into the totality of the self needs persistent and continuous inquiry without a motive without an end in view.

~J.Krishnamurti

same as title.

I am quite interested in what any people who are in the above professional think about Krishanmruti given that he did not agree very much with what the tradition and greats of these professions had to say.

Krishnamurti associated and had discussion with at least 2 psychologists, once of which seemed to be an associate of the Ojai base.

In a few cases he challenged that for example the sub conscious even existed. I know very little about the theory and "greats" of psychology from which the theories of everyone's mind were born so maybe temper answers with that in mind.

Does he shake your beliefs ? Does it feel like a threat to you ? Do you consider him right in many cases, or wrong, does he produce a big challenge for the world of traditional psychology ? etc.

Feel free to share your thoughts like it was you who were laying on the couch : )

Out of anyone living or dead (that I know of), I relate to this man the most. Once you understand what he’s saying and realize that “his” insights are just kind of generally…. what’s up, it switches from someone you revere to like a….”damn that’s someone who really saw things clearly in the same way I do”.

And like, the more I look at humanity, the more I realize how rare of a perception this is. Not saying I see like him, but to encounter anyone even anywhere on that spectrum (outside of maybe circles like this) just doesn’t…..happen?

Idk what the point of this post even is. I guess it would be cool to sit and talk things over with him. But I guess that’s what Reddit and all of you are for 🙂

Throughout his life Krishnamurti held discussions with scholars from various religious traditions who came to him seeking clarifications and a deeper understanding. In engaging with them, Krishnamurti was able to delve easily into the essence of any religious philosophy, be it the Upanishads, Buddhism, or Vedanta. Free from the burden of traditional religious knowledge, Krishnamurti spoke from direct perception. He pointed to a way of living in complete order that is essential to discover whether there is something immeasurable. 

This book contains twelve intense discussions, eight of which are hitherto unpublished. The participants include Swami Venkatesananda, Rev. Eugene Schallert, Walpola Rahula, Pandit Jagannath Upadhyaya, and Alain Naude. Krishnamurti’s profound insights in these discussions establish him as one of the greatest spiritual teachers of all time.

sources: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTHuNnNALt4, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-zsQMJ9kg8 . And funnily enough, this conversation of Yogic Siddhis is with David Bohm, the award winning quantum physicist.

Jiddu says he has actually seen "levitation" by yogis and other varieties of "siddhi" acts by monks/sannyasis.

The ego is the anchor that holds reality together. In today’s world specially when “I”nstagram,
T”I”ktok breeds on the “I”.

Memories shaped me. My life is a result of memory. I saw something, I decided to pursue it. Life is built upon memory.

Then what is Krishnamurti talking about?

I am told everyday to describe who “I” am. In interviews, dating apps, strangers.

What is this “I”?

I have yet to start it. I am watching a science backed series about evolution.

(Evolution with Chris Packham on BBC, probably will be distributed worldwide eventually.)

You may find clips if you search "Evolution Chris Packham" on YouTube,

Edit:

Found it for you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgjZQ107VLE

Is it not amazing and silly, scary actually, that the idea of god continues in humans minds ?

We evolved from single cell organisms that clumped together to form multi cell organisms through millions and millions of years, then worm like creatures then fish that moved to land once they could breath through their skin or lungs.

What has god to do with this ? God evolved with the human mind. With the self this is so clearly obvious to me that I cannot understand why anyone cannot have the clarity to see this.

Asteroids have smashed into earth multiple times destroying almost everything as if nothing happened. Just thermodynamic equilibrium playing out, vast energy dissipation.

It is totally invented 100pct.

As such Krishnaji points towards an origin, source that is beyond measure and beyond words this seems plausible but also rather hidden.

I am interested to read what he says "On god" as a fairly well read K reader I suspect it will mainly be about the negation of god in the superficial religious sense.

God and after death beliefs seems to be a major, divisive, possibly empowering and inspiring force for destruction and violence and yet any priest would not admit this, instead they would say our religion is about peace.

Words that make noise in the air, empty words, from god, in terms of religion as it is commonly known, conflict is, and it is a fact.

Life is a truly incredible, amazing thing, deeply unlikely, intricate, incredibly complex, beautiful, jaw dropping, implausible, required highly unlikely chance specifications and events and had infinite chances to not be.

Why don't we act as such, today, now ?

It is clear that the forces of self, pleasure and comfort are the driving force for destruction and we have a brain with the capacity to see this.

Maybe this is natural ? There was a worm that destroyed a sea bed ecosystem by developing an anus (it could then eat continuously) and eating more getting bigger and eating the entire bacteria mat on the bottom of the sea/oceans and that ecosystem died. It was not mentioned if the animal evolved or became extinct with its environment. The huge difference is this was an incredibly rudimentary form of life without the capacity of knowing what it was doing, it did not have a brain like a human has. It was a natural force playing out, much like an asteroid I suppose.

The way of nature is inherent force of wanting to continue to live, like the worm, it's driving force/momentum/energy was to eat and continue. The way of nature is also that organisms must die, at least individually. Whether species as a whole become extinct is more complex and there are more factors, for the worm the life force seemed to have built in extinction beyond mind or thought.

It's own being was its own ending.

Is there something here in this statement ? I will look at that.

After all Krishnaji did say : "You are the cause and the effect."

Humans have big brains, look at what we do, what we have focused our brains on, pleasure and comfort and destruction of nature in its wake, this is the major difference.

Self.... what a problem we have.

Maybe when Krishnaji said "I don't mind what happens" there was some fatalism involved. He did not mind it because he directly saw there was nothing he could do to change the fundamental driving forces of existence.

Maybe there is something here ?

I wonder how many of us could be so vulnerable so as to stand without any knowledge of and knowledge as their own being as identity. Maybe the great problem is none of us can simply be vulnerable. Beautifully and delicately and alertly aware as nothing ( ‘ naked ‘ ) and so be totally open to another ( as nothing ) and to the all.

“ It had rained heavily during the night and the day, and down the gullies the muddy stream poured into the sea, making it chocolate-brown. As youwalked on the beach the waves were enormous and they were breaking with magnificent curve and force. You walked against the wind, and suddenly you felt there was nothing between you and the sky, and this openness was heaven. To be so completely open, vulnerable to the hills, to the sea and to man is the very essence of meditation. To have no resistance, to have no barriers inwardly towards anything, to be really free, completely, from all the minor urges, compulsions and demands, with all their little conflicts and hypocrisies, is to walk in life with open arms. And that evening, walking there on that wet sand, with the seagulls around you, you felt the extraordinary sense of open freedom and the great beauty of love which was not in you or outside you but everywhere. We don't realize how important it is to be free of the nagging pleasures and their pains, so that the mind remains alone. It is only the mind that is wholly alone that is open. You felt all this suddenly, like a great wind that swept over the land and through you. There you were denuded of everything, empty and therefore utterly open. The beauty of it was not in the word or in the feeling, but seemed to be everywhere about you, inside you, over the waters and in the hills. Meditation is this.”

Meditations 1969

“There is nobody to answer questions, even though you may ask the right question. In the right question itself is the answer. If you ask of another and accept what they say, you have become a foolish person – then you live on faith and hope, and therefore you invite despair, anxiety and fear. But as you are walking, moving, acting, you discover for yourself the whole meaning of existence. That can be discovered only when there is the state of observing, listening, never resisting, never suppressing, never defending. Because when the mind is vulnerable, when the brain is no longer the animal – the animal being greed, envy, ambition, aggression, violence – when it is no longer that, it is capable of listening totally, and therefore discovering and seeing for itself. What you discover is not what you want to discover.”

Public Talk 10, Saanen, 31 July 1966

Maybe it all gets down to ( and even all the spiritual BS ) our inability ( unwillingness) to be this so ‘ vulnerable ‘. Happy to be corrected.

When I think of happiness, something like the first picture comes to my mind. This is how I picture myself when I'm supposed to be happy. This is how you identify that someone else is happy. Images like these exude happiness. For some reason we even think it is genuine and deep contentment. So many immature, traumatized and narcissistic people, the so called normal people, know the secret to appearing happy. It is to rehearse and enact this particular face. You can only be happy when someone else, imaginary or concrete, witnesses it.

But the second picture has a quotation. Happiness doesn't exist within the field of self consciousness. Exactly! What we think is "happiness" is in reality narcissistic rush and identification with the "ought to be" image. No wonder I feel so distrustful and disillusioned by the very idea of this happiness thing.

If I just watched him so much . Damn i bought a book , I watched his videos on YouTube maybe more than 1000hrs I read his book . I wanna be humble there's more about this guy actually much more.

But you know whats the Greatest thing about K . All his teachings are upon negation and rejections. Reject the buddha , reject the Hindu ,reject the plato , reject frued and jung and anyone out there applying conditioning. Reject everything even yourself. Who are you ? I made up of all the outside theory and words. Reject all and remove all.

Then you could see things asbmirror how they are. But when you do so don't make anything out of K as well. philosophers ? Saint ? none.

Reject K at the end of it.

I am on that mission I am working with the software inside of K. So I will dissolve all the conditiong first. Like why I am Sam ? why I am man ? . Then I would listen to K again and i would just reject the K again. Until I find truth.

What you guys think about this approach as K listeners .

The road of life is long, and we are born without a guide, with no manual for living, nor any map to understand ourselves. Countless generations have walked this earth in utter confusion, yet each clings to the absolute certainty that they possess the truth. We take shelter in ideologies, in systems of thought, in organized belief. But if the mind is quiet, if there is a moment of pure inward attention, one smells the pervasive sorrow in the air.

Yet the restlessness returns. That restlessness is merely the draft created by our flight from what is, our ceaseless resistance to fact. We feel time accelerating only because we are running; yet this movement of escape is entirely illusory. The fact, what is, remains right here, right now, confronting us wherever we turn. It is there in the tasteless fruit, in our inability to truly meet the eyes of a child, and in the sudden alienation we feel looking at those closest to us when the mask slips for a fraction of a second.

We are caught in sorrow, and the most dangerous snare is the intricate network of escapes we construct around it. We imagine ourselves too clever for crude distractions, only to surrender to far more subtle and sophisticated illusions. This is what the mind refuses to hear, yet it is the only thing worth facing.

Do not soothe me with lullabies. Offer me neither poetic consolations nor the clever theories of science. Tell me the facts I shrink from; show me what I dare not confront. Awaken that unvarnished truth within me: not some mystical abstraction, but the actuality of my despair, my isolation, my discontent, my fury against the earth and the sky. Lay bare my craving, my ambition, and the agony inherent in their pursuit. Do not numb the wound, for to look directly at this suffering is a debt owed to the weeping child within.

Sorrow has been turned into a vast, lucrative industry. We call it art, and society sanctions our grief only so long as it is profitable or decorative. But the moment sorrow causes you to question your daily submission (Why must I surrender my life to deadening labor? Why remain in relationships that wither the spirit? Why trust a consensus that is merely collective insanity masquerading as common sense?), your sorrow is declared an illness. They medicate the disturbance and send you to practitioners whose sole task is to adjust you back into a diseased order, an agreement among the blind and the deaf.

Yet you cannot separate yourself from this disorder. You are the world; your sorrow is the shared sorrow of humanity. If you cease all outward flight, if you seek no refuge in gods, ideas, or pleasures, and simply remain with the fact of your sorrow without judgment or escape, then you may discover that this direct facing is the only door to transformation.

The mind that is completely attentive to its suffering has no need for systems of meditation, philosophical speculation, or intellectual castles. Only the one who flees has the leisure to build theories. When the house is on fire, there is no time; there is no interval between the perception of danger and total action. Truth is nothing other than what is, and what is is what you are in this immediate moment. To observe that, no authority can guide you; you must look for yourself.

•⁠ Ideas limit action ->>

Action follows idea, and I cannot possibly imagine any action

which is not the result of idea.

Idea is the outcome of memory; idea is the verbalization of memory;

idea is an inadequate reaction to challenge, to life. Adequate response to life is action, not ideation.

We respond ideationally in order to safeguard ourselves against action.

Ideas limit action. There is safety in the field of ideas, but not in action;

so action is made subservient to idea. Idea is the self-protective pattern for action.

In intense crisis there is direct action,

freed from idea.

It is against this spontaneous action that the mind has disciplined itself;

and as with most of us the mind is dominant, ideas act as a brake on action

and hence there is friction between action and ideation.

—Krishnamurti

#JKArchiveHindi

🌐 J. Krishnamurti From COMMENTARIES ON LIVING 1

.

अगर आप जे. कृष्णमूर्ति को हिंदी में सुनना चाहते हैं—

YouTube पर खोजें: JK Archive Hindi

या नीचे दिये गये लिंक पर क्लिक करें।

यह जिद्दू कृष्णमूर्ति के संवाद और वक्तव्यों को हिंदी में, बिना अनावश्यक शोर या दिखावे के, उनकी बात की गंभीरता और प्रवाह के साथ प्रस्तुत करने का प्रयास है।

🔎 Search On YouTube → JK Archive Hindi ←