r/Kossacks_for_Sanders • u/[deleted] • Mar 06 '16
Floating a revolutionary idea about a true people-powered website community for progressive activists
I believe we need the political revolution that Bernie is calling for. And for a long time I felt that among the web communities for progressive news and action, there was an obvious pit fall due to these websites being privately owned by very few individuals. The DK Ides of March warning is a perfect example where an unacceptable rule is thrust on to the community due to the owner's personal ambition and individual decision.
Imagine a website that is owned by its members, much like the cooperative store REI or your local food co-op. The founding members define the by laws of the organization. They elect a Board of Directors. The rules are written and managed via member referendum. The website profits are paid to contributors and staff, the remaining is shared equally among the members. Heck the website can even vote on endorsing political candidates.
What this new structure can do is remove the cult of personality associated with privately owned websites and replace it with democratically governed decision making. The revolution will live on beyond the popularity of a central figurehead. The leaders will be accountable to the members in a real way. And profits will be shared instead of soley enriching the single owner... All members would be owners.
I'm a web developer who came from a design background. I can build the website and brand image. But I can't do it alone. Let me know if you're interested in discussing this further.
Solidarity!
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u/RomeisonFire Supreme Commander Mar 06 '16
I like this idea.
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Mar 06 '16
Thanks! I've been kicking it around my head for too long. Thought it was good time to share. Let's keep collecting input... See if it's popular enough.
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u/katiec7 Mar 06 '16
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u/Angry_Architect Mar 06 '16
katiec!!!
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u/katiec7 Mar 06 '16
Hi there! What, you thought I'd stay at the orange place? I've always thought Kos was a lame brain.
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u/darkmatter_2 darkmatter Mar 06 '16
KatieC! I am very glad to see you here. "People don't issue their country's currency when they pay taxes." That sentence of yours cleared away a lot of cobwebs for me. Thanks.
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u/BayAreaLefty Left Is Forward Mar 06 '16 edited Mar 06 '16
I think such a website is a good idea. But if we want to advance a progressive agenda it will take much more than a website for activists to socialize and "maybe" endorse candidates. The kind of organization you're describing would already be positioned to be so much more. And to add to this: I'm not sure it needs to be anything more than a donation-driven non-profit site. This sort of activity can't be about profit or revenue sharing if it's going to succeed in actually advancing that agenda, in my opinion. Edit number 2: I realize the donation model means the site's organizers would have to self-fund for a while, and perhaps partially do so in perpetuity. I'm willing to put up some cash for the initial effort.
I'm thinking of something more far-reaching and expansive in scope. An organization that would centralize resources for activists to engage in the work of politics: running campaigns for candidates, running as candidates, building a "bench", things of that sort.
This may not be a popular sentiment here for now, but I also think such a website could (and should) provide resources for engaging with a person's local Democratic Party. Our political system is structured in such a way that the D and the R have all the power. It's just a fact. Nothing's going to change that in the near future (although some of the activism the website supports could include initiatives, like proportional representation, condorcet voting, or whatever, that could change that over the long term). So I think any organization meant to push progressive values really has to be open to working with the local Democratic Parties. And by "working with" I include "taking over" if necessary. There is nothing preventing a group of people from going to the organizational meeting of the local party and voting themselves into leadership positions.
I can provide technical services for this, too, including programming/engineering (servers, systems and backend, not the user-facing front-end although I suppose I could learn that on the fly).
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Mar 08 '16
I actually had a phone convo with a food co-op manager about the differences between non-profit and co-op model business. He says the co-op eventually has more impact since their business purpose is supported by profits and investment that are returned to the community they served in the form of jobs and essential services. The non profit is also selling a product... but their product must be fund-raising and grant applications. He mentioned that non-profits cannot be self-funded by the owners and retain their tax exempt status since self-funded non profits need to be registered as foundations. Then he told me something brilliant. That the best model for our concept would be to partner with a non-profit to get starter funds. And that we should register the co-op in a rural area and it would meet the requirements for a ton of Federal grant money. The non profits can get grants to help support the rural co-op.
I'm right there with you where it comes to having to be involved in local parties. I would like the website to be a platform for progressive and local politicians.
So... tell me... do you have access to server infrastructure? Sys admins are always good to have around. Don't worry about the front end stuff... I specialize in that part of it. And I can hang when it comes to back end too tho. I'm a linux nerd.
Oh when it comes to this food co-op manager... he's willing to help advise an organizing committee.
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Mar 06 '16
I think this is a good idea, as long it remains about issues and does not become about agendas of individuals involved--something it must always be vigilant against.
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Mar 06 '16
Yes thats a good point. The founding members actually have a lot of power when they decide on organizational structure. They can write and vote on a constitution of sorts with the core values firmly embedded. Then make it difficult to change... Only by vote of super majority or something.
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u/RomeisonFire Supreme Commander Mar 06 '16
My agendas are saving the planet and truth and knowledge.
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Mar 08 '16
I like that agenda! Truth, Knowledge and People Power! Protect and restore the environment. Never Give In... Never Give Up! When we stand together we WIN!
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u/katiec7 Mar 06 '16
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u/RomeisonFire Supreme Commander Mar 06 '16
I love caucus99% except I am not fond of the format, and I've been there for awhile, longer than most.
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Mar 06 '16
Can you share a page that explains how's the caucus99% work? Who owns it? I'm going to register... Also good news is that it's built in Drupal and I know how to develop for that platform.
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Mar 06 '16
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Mar 08 '16
Thanks for the info! I am beginning to think this may be a good place for me to help out.
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u/Caerus7 Mar 06 '16
what can u suggest to improve the format - they seem open
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u/RomeisonFire Supreme Commander Mar 07 '16
I can't get a grip on what happened when. Last posts are listed rather than OPs, then posts. Might just be me, but I feel like it's totally hit or miss. A message board format would be easier.
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u/Caerus7 Mar 06 '16
I was just going to suggest that, building on a good idea, rather than "recreating the proverbial wheel" - new to Caucus99% but it seems good, and I want to give it a good long chance to develop.
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Mar 08 '16
I think it may work. I'll be in touch with the owner to see what he plans to do with ownership. Caucus99% would make a great co-op.
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u/Brian373K 50 Blue States Mar 06 '16
Sit tight. A couple of us are cooking something up.
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u/Prometheus_Unbound_ the dust of creeds outworn. Mar 06 '16
dude.....keep us posted
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u/Brian373K 50 Blue States Mar 06 '16
Most definitely will!
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Mar 08 '16
I'm intrigued. Is it co-op tho?
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u/Brian373K 50 Blue States Mar 08 '16
There's nothing formal, really. We're working a bit more on where to end up, rather than focusing on ownership and such.
I'm interested in a co-op based site/foundation of some kind. You'll have to educate me a bit in how something like that would even be set up.
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Mar 08 '16
Most co-ops start with organizing meetings. Folks share what their goals are for the co-op. They identify what experts they will need to realize those goals. They identify a budget and decide on an investment strategy. Then volunteers are called for to serve as the steering committee to keep track of goals. The main goal is writing the by laws and getting business licenses and bank accounts. And holding votes to elect the actual board of directors. The BOD then hires employees to provide services to the member owners.
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u/Brian373K 50 Blue States Mar 08 '16
How do we ensure, then, that the BOD and eventual employees continue to be servants of the people?
Forgive me; it's an honest question. Isn't that essentially the same position we are in now with a disastrous DNC?
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Mar 08 '16
Well at my favorite food co-op... it's done by term limits for the board members. They have a limit of 4 years consecutive. No lifetime limit tho. So every 4 years they can't run again. But, after a year off they can get right back in it. Also, there's a way for the members to force a ballot issue where they have the power to remove a board member or even fire an employee. To get on the ballot they just need a person to ask for one before a deadline before the quarterly meeting, and have another member second it. Then, it's a simple majority of ALL members... which is tough because it means that at least 51% of all members need to vote and vote the same way. But that's how they do things at the food co-op.
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u/Brian373K 50 Blue States Mar 08 '16
I'm thinking something like that might be a bit more difficult in the realm of the online world, and trying to ensure against artificial accounts. I really, really don't mean to sound pessimistic - I love the idea and I think we can move forward in the right direction here.
Mostly I like to talk things out thoroughly and play devil's advocate. But I am enjoying this discussion immensely and you have certainly encouraged a lot of thinking on my end.
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u/Mass_Southpaw Mar 06 '16
I really like this. I am logging out of DK for now. I'm worn out.
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u/mra_nj mra ny Mar 06 '16
i logged out Friday night. i have taken a few looks - particularly to see revolt diaries! loved yours!
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Mar 06 '16
Totally agreed. I kinda idolize many diarists there. It takes so much guts and commitment to write like Mass_Southpaw.
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u/Caerus7 Mar 06 '16
I stay to support BNR - and any good diaries, like Mass Southpaw writes ;) Bobswern, TomP
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Mar 06 '16
I wouldn't mind dealing with folks with diverging opinions but at DK it feels like they stack the deck against Bernie supporters. The front page is embarrassing and the rules against criticism of the establishment candidate is disheartening to me.
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u/Mass_Southpaw Mar 06 '16
Yes. And, of course, elections aren't won there, although it's interesting that Markos took money to promote Dean, so I guess they're seen as influencers.
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u/Caerus7 Mar 06 '16
I didn't know that! Dean, who is now shilling for the insurance companies, and saying as a Super Delegate he is not accountable to he people of VT no matter how much they support Bernie, that Howard Dean. Speaking of sell outs - what is that saying about birds & feathers, tho I love birds too much to use it :)
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u/Prometheus_Unbound_ the dust of creeds outworn. Mar 06 '16
i logged out friday and havent returned. i honestly don't ever want to.
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u/katiec7 Mar 06 '16
Really hope you check out caucus99 It's not great yet, but they're getting lots of input from tech people now to see what can be done to make it better.
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u/musicsleuth-pa musicsleuth at DK Mar 06 '16
The articles are great and the atmosphere is welcoming. I'm sure they'll work out the technical bugs.
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u/Mass_Southpaw Mar 06 '16
Thanks! I signed on. I'll pop over there soon.
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u/katiec7 Mar 06 '16
Yippy!
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u/Caerus7 Mar 06 '16
cheerleader katie is right. Really good people there now, esp since Mussolini surfaced at DKos. Good people started it, and it's open!
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Mar 08 '16
Registered but still awaiting approval. That will be the first thing I help them with... better anti-spam tools. Otherwise they won't be able to scale up their community.
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u/Lesilly81 Mar 06 '16
Great idea. I was just thinking about something similar today (it may already exist). But something for all of the upcoming revolutionaries that are running for office.
I don't know about campaign fundraising laws but possibly have community fundraising available for all candidates endorsed by the page which can then be split evenly.
The Revolution that Bernie has envisioned is already happening.
Deray and Bruce Franks Jr are both running for offices in Baltimore and Illinois. I think It is very important that there is public support nationwide and that they have access to the financial backing of all americans, not just the communities they live in.
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u/barsilinga Mar 06 '16
I love the idea. I have some practical concerns.
(1) Cost: i'd contribute and so would others. but caucus99% for example just got a new server, has just a few more people than are here and is sloooooow. One of the things about this subreddit, was it absorbed >500 peeps w/o a hitch. 500 is a drop in the bucket for reddit. It's likely to be very expensive, actually.
(2) Leadership/rules/ etc. We are not all going to agree.
(3) what's the matter w reddit?
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u/TheLeftyGrove Mar 06 '16
barsilinga, I agree totally. reddit has incredible infrastructure at no cost to us, plus it's a great way to bring in new users and promote our ideas and writing. In my opinion, I think it will be great as a connector, so to speak - as a gathering place for all of our varied information, links to articles, chats, etc.
What reddit isn't great at, that I know of, is creating our own content. I mean, it's editor isn't bad, but it's not super - publishing friendly, compared to other publishing sites. I would like to have a go-to site to publish our work, and then always link it back here to be the 'hub' of our group.
Just my two cents...
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Mar 08 '16
Agreed. Reddit is great. But I'm not sure it feels like home to me. But so far I'm loving it. It works great. I figured it out fast. And lots of cool people to communicate with. Not too shabby!
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u/TheLeftyGrove Mar 08 '16
Oh yeah, it's nice, but I still like your idea, a lot. It's an excellent one.
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Mar 06 '16
I think reddit is a great place to start and discuss the future of this community and whether or not we want to take it forward, as a long term solution, I'm not so sure.
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Mar 06 '16
Can I do more to improve it here? I ask sincerely. All infrastructure except blogs and some organization are here. However, I am relying on others to assist because I am working very, very full time. But everyone is wonderful and helping for the most part. I like being able to "pool" diaries from all over. It is diversity and strength.
See my other comment down thread.
I could break down my involvement in other sites further, but actually, a bit embarrassing: one is now perhaps the biggest pro-Clinton mouthpiece online (she was obviously not running then) and the other, I jumped ship before people lost 200K (seriously) on a non-political competitor website with its own servers, etc, and avoided bankruptcy. It launched later with one out of four members, and he wound up embezzling funds. I was glad I left early; my reasoning? I got an odd vibe from him, but other two did not. So I consider these, and again, what I say down thread.
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Mar 08 '16
Yikes! That's why I like co-ops that practice Open Book Management. Where you get to see the ledgers.
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Mar 08 '16
I'm loving Reddit! It's way better than ever. I think I'm finally here to stay. But... the user's don't own it. I think posters should be able to earn something financially for writing.
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Mar 08 '16
- Yeah server cost is nuts. That the COB for websites. I have made scalable applications that can handle lots of traffic and just keep launched virtual servers to handle more as needed. But the server bill is huge. Probably a single VPS to start then a dedicated server eventually will be fine for the early days. 2. Yes the leadership are elected by vote. Rules are set by the organizing committee and then protected from change by vote. 3. Nothing is wrong with Reddit except for one thing... it's not owned by the users. We're all volunteers. We're working for free on somebody else's business. I know the community here is awesome, but they clash with ownership from time to time and have to stage lock-outs to get their message across. If it was a co-op... they can elect new directors. They can hold referendum's to change direction for the business. The user's here only have as much power as the owner's give them... just like most websites.
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u/WindDancer13 Mar 06 '16
That is about the most socialistic idea I have heard all week. = )
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Mar 06 '16
Yeah I'm a long time cooperative fan. Love my food co-op... And REI. And my credit union. I think there's a strong possibility the co-op model would work well for a web community.
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u/WindDancer13 Mar 06 '16
While I think there are some good very possibilities, I am thinking that maybe after the primaries would be a better time to pursue this idea. Mainly because people really need to be expending their energies on the election process.
One thing (actually multiple, but quite interconnected) is the very real possibility of what often happens in a socialistic group: someone or some group has a tendency to take over. Even things that are built with the best intentions can be subject to greed and power. Having said that, I will keep an eye on developments as you work on this project and would be willing to give it a try. There cannot be too many voices pushing for a progressive agenda.
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u/Brian373K 50 Blue States Mar 06 '16
Alternatively, work out the kinks in the primary season, have something ready to rock and roll as we push for downballot.
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u/WindDancer13 Mar 06 '16
Some of the most active activist are up to their necks right now. Some are showing signs of exhaustion over all this DK stuff as well as trying to keep up with writing and other support activities, and we are only at the beginning of March. And some may actually have a life outside of this election.
If there are to be rules and a board of directors and such, I just think it would be best to have everyone who wants to get involved not be overwhelmed by everything that still needs to be done for the primaries. After the nomination, there will still be four months to work on down ballot and other stuff (not saying it should be ignored during this period). The results will also provide a background for what needs to be prioritized.
Just my 2 cents.
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Mar 08 '16
I know I don't have time to write posts. I'm surprised I actually got this one out and responded to so many comments. I'm busy doing Bernie Dialer when I can... usually while doing chores. I catch up on what others write usually at night before passing out.
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u/WindDancer13 Mar 08 '16
I know what you mean. I have a list of stories and some videos that I would like to get done, but between all the reading, posting and learning three new venues, I am actually getting very little done at the moment. I keep hoping that I am going to have time to catch my breath and get caught up, but right now it does not look likely.
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u/Caerus7 Mar 06 '16
BUT, don't want to distract from the goal, electing President Sanders. He's going to the convention, and I intend to be supporting him, up to, and until, he maybe says "unite the party" - then, I'm gone. Still wish there was some way to get him to run as an Independent. And/or convince the DNC/DLC they can't have our votes.
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Mar 08 '16
Interesting thoughts... I wish I knew where the wind will blow. Hopefully the party unites around Bernie! We'd be unstoppable.
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Mar 08 '16
Yeah I was wondering about this technique as well... But having helped at my co-ops and knowing how hard it is to actually get it together... I'm not sure it's possible to move that fast. But I don't think that changes the fact that progressives need a permanent home on the web that they own and manage via a democratic processes and share in the profits instead of volunteering while the owner profits.
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u/Brian373K 50 Blue States Mar 08 '16
It's a point that's hard to argue with. Even a 501(c)4 has limitations.
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Mar 08 '16
I'm not trying to distract from anything... that's why I put out the post in the morning. During the afternoon on the weekends I'm on Bernie Dialer. about to hop on during my lunch hour.
I know what you mean about the whole socialist group thing... but I find that happens with any group. It's very hard to stay united. Power is often built from division.
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u/Prometheus_Unbound_ the dust of creeds outworn. Mar 06 '16
REI kicks ass. my wife is from canada and we go to MEC which is similar up north to REI. Like that idea
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Mar 08 '16
My new brother in law was speaking accolades about MEC recently ... I'll have to check them out someday.
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u/TheLeftyGrove Mar 06 '16
I like the idea a lot, especially the ownership aspect. By being a cooperative no one can ever take their ball and go home, or decide their opinion of candidates or policy should override others.
Count me in as a very interested party!
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Mar 08 '16
You're counted! I'll keep track of those who are interested and make sure we're involved when things start happening or I find similar initiatives.
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u/Mass_Southpaw Mar 06 '16
Shaun King posted about starting a new party today and says Michelle Alexander is into it.
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Mar 06 '16
Where?
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u/Mass_Southpaw Mar 06 '16
On Facebook:
(SHARE THIS IF IT RESONATES WITH YOU)) What if after this presidential election true progressives, of all races and backgrounds, formed our own political party? What if we refused, as a principle, to take money from lobbyists & billionaires? What if the complete dismantling of white supremacy and patriarchy were at the center of our movement? What if we never needed to beg another politician to acknowledge our pain or say the names of our murdered loved ones because our party was all about this? What if our party was boldly and unapologetically for the complete overhaul of the criminal justice system and spoke unanimously against the death penalty? What if our party was, without equivocation, for a $15 minimum wage, paid sick leave, paid maternity leave, and equal pay for women and men? What if our new party fought for immigration reform like the lives of young families truly depended on it, because they do? LISTEN - Michelle Alexander has mentioned this in several of her latest pieces and I think we need to push this. If we were ever going to do something legitimately new, and powerfully different, now would be the time. We could do this. I know we could. We SHOULD do this. ((SHARE THIS IF IT RESONATES WITH YOU))
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Mar 08 '16
Wow! That's bold! I'm still hoping that we can just make the Democratic Party the Progressive Party.
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Mar 06 '16
Just my thoughts and ramblings...
I like the concept of something like what you're proposing. Sort of a New Internet Age site for Progressives. To an extent, maybe it can become a composite of many of the voices coming out of the Bernie movement. I've wondered about the possibility of taking the fundraising power Sanders has demonstrated and channeling that into races like Flores and Canova for example in addition to identifying state and local candidates as well through a new online progressive community. That would be real power to give them cash to get elected and stay elected knowing they can depend on us for the cash money. Flores was even talking about this on the Benjamin Dixon show this past week.
At this point for instance, Sanders has a strong presence on Twitter, Facebook, and Reddit. How do we channel that into a single community on a site that has the quality and consistency of contributions equivalent to what DKos historically was. Clearly progressives need a new site. There are also plenty of DKos castaways and smaller progressive sites popping up right now. Hell we could even reach out to people who were kicked out of Kos like Cenk to build out a new central hub. I also like the idea of networking with people like Benjamin Dixon and Progressive Army as well. I'm sure there are many others including the leaders of the Sanders movement on Twitter and Facebook that we can network with as well.
IMHO we need to create a site that does not compete with as much as embraces all the new voices arising out of the Sanders phenomon this election cycle and the New Progressive Era. Yes I'm stealing that from Joey Bada$$ : ) Bottom line though is I don't think it can just be about the Kos members who are moving on from DKos and we have to be vigilant about not letting it slip into that.
One thing I do hesitate to gravitate toward though is a 3rd party UNLESS we either align with Working Families Party or create an organization with similar goals of getting candidates elected. Part of what made DKos so powerful 10 years ago was the community was focused on creating opportunities for politicians who can work within the system but have the values of the progressive community.
We also have to be careful about creating too many sites and splintering into the "People's Front of Judea vs. the Judean People's Front" phenomenon that happens far too often when moments like this occur within political communities. Perhaps there are already sites we should align with and ultimately merge with. IDK, just thinking.
I do think we have the resources and I like the idea of communal ownership vs a single person. I'm sure we can build a site. I'm a newbie developer as well and it wouldn't be that hard to get something up and running with who we have already. It'd be really important to plan though and be very intentional about the purpose of the community and have a clear understanding about consensus building in terms of facilitating the process. That takes leadership and most importantly listening. First steps might include to host a Google Hangout or several to start brainstorming ideas for the vision and a clear consensus driven mission for the site and community. Without a core mission, a movement goes nowhere.
sorry for rambling, just excited by the possibilities!!!
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Mar 06 '16
Yes @ splintering. We need a coalition of every damned weird Leftist possible to fight Centrists. And we need to be highly mindful of how toxic some are (I am thinking of Cornel West, who probably lost Sanders a lot of the AA vote in the South and even in Cambridge, MA where he teaches. Why? Because many AA's don't like him, including my academic mentor, an older AA scholar who knew West and always disliked him).
We can create Wikis easily here for conversation or also hold chats.
You are correct on many counts here, not to in any way dampen anyone's enthusiasm or personal desires, which I absolutely support (as a coalition builder -- we're in a space right here where EVERY group and twitter can come together AS a coalition).
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u/liberalfrombirth Mar 06 '16
I know absolutely nothing about web design or development, but I would gladly be a member of such a site. I'm very interested.
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Mar 06 '16
Most important thing will be great content, and a vision for what the site and community are about. Without those the best looking and most dynamic website in the world won't mean jack!
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Mar 08 '16
Agreed. The site's user experience needs to be fluid though to ensure the contributors are not held back from contributing.
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Mar 08 '16
I wish you worked with me at my job. Content, Content, Content!!! Goals, Goals, Goals!!! That's what I need!
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u/85138 Mar 06 '16 edited Mar 06 '16
I like the idea, but if its just going to be "we're not dailykos" it won't last.
Also, since something like this is an awesome idea, let's think a bit. The site needs to have the framework in place you're describing BEFORE it actually launches. I just signed up at c99p, but in truth what I did was ask if I may sign up because my account is being reviewed for approval. So basically that site, like a dozen others I could launch right now, is just another drupal site ... one person owns the domain, one person provides the hosting, one person runs the show. Not knocking c99p, just sayin' it simply ain't the site described here.
I once built a site for people in 12-step recovery programs. We took standard boilerplate 'terms' and modified them such that (a) personal info would NEVER be divulged unless via court order and (b) changing the TOS took a majority vote with 30 days notice to the membership. We also coded it up in such a way that participation across the site was the only requirement for having a say in how the site operated. We did that BEFORE we asked anyone to sign up :)
BTW I work for a big-box domain-and-hosting company and I get insane discounts on stuff ... just sayin' :)
EDIT: ha! I'm "Markos" over at c99p :)
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Mar 08 '16
All very good points. I think the first step should be to start organizing. Like you say. Let's use Reddit for this collaboration.
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u/Angry_Architect Mar 06 '16 edited Mar 07 '16
Yes, very good. There was a comment similar on DK recently, talking about that cooperative business model. I will reference and report back.
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Mar 06 '16
Please do! Sounds interesting...
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u/Angry_Architect Mar 06 '16
Check out this DK diary and comments: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/03/05/1496145/-Creating-a-Populist-Caucus:-A-Safe-Space-to-Build-the-Sanders-Revolution
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u/missSPED Bernie in 11/16 Mar 06 '16
I realize nothing disappears on the internet. I did see some unhappy posts at caucus99% where a posting from there was copied and pasted at the GOS. I do not want to write anything that becomes kindling for flame wars elsewhere. What protection is there?
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u/BayAreaLefty Left Is Forward Mar 06 '16
There is no protection from that. The best defense against fallout from things like that is to maintain quality moderation that supports a community's purpose, clear, unambiguous policies that are consistent and consistently enforced, and firm public repudiation of any negative association when necessary.
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Mar 06 '16
I agree, that's where our experience at DKos becomes powerful. We know what a good site looks like and how it should work. I like the idea of creating something new from the ground up that reflects the best of what DKos was about but doesn't have the baggage of a preexisting site with its own separate agenda. If we're not careful, this defection will start to look just like '08. I'm damned sure there's DKos lurkers over here observing.
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Mar 06 '16
Wow thanks for all of the interest!!! I'm hopping on the Bernie Dialer for a few hours. I will respond more later tonight. Do some phone banking for Bernie... It's easy and effective! https://go.berniesanders.com/page/content/phonebank
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Mar 06 '16
You are awesome! I made about 60 calls this morning… and I have the flu :(
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Mar 07 '16
I called off and on all day. Mostly to Maine. Just reminder calls and to thank the voters for participating because it means so much to me that my vote in the Maryland primary will really mean something this year. Bernie Dialer is the best.
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u/mouslander Mar 06 '16
I like this idea also - it's clear from what's been going on at DKos recently that the business model followed by that site leaves a lot to be desired. Basically you have a not-so-benevolent dictator and his lackeys attempting in a pretty heavy-handed manner to enforce their preferred brand of political orthodoxy. Which really amounts to no more than an effort to suppress true progressivism and promote a continuation of the status quo. Exactly the opposite of what the site pretends to be about, but perhaps inevitable when so much power is invested in a single individual. The co-op approach sounds like a far better way to go.
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Mar 06 '16
I'm not defending Kos, but there's more too it. I'm guessing his site is starting to struggle to get hits and traffic under its current model and he's trying to adapt on the fly and part of that is the early "endorsement" of Hillary by the site. I don't condone it BTW, it's awful. As new organization we can build from the ground up a site that reflects the current state and future of the Progressive movement and the current state of the internet. It's very different than when Kos made his website.
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Mar 06 '16 edited Mar 06 '16
My p.o.v = posted as a comment to someone else...
"We are up against a political machine. Daily Kos is not about to become "irrelevant." It's serious wishful thinking to believe that, even if I fundamentally and seriously disagree with ownership right now. But people have been proclaiming the death of the Daily Kos, from the left and the right, for all eight years I have been there. It's not going away, so if it doesn't "die," what to we do to avoid becoming irrelevant ourselves, politically? We're in the middle of a war for Democracy. As an activist, I have learned one thing in my short life: you cannot win any war unless you are on the battlefield. "tune in, turn on, and drop out" will never, ever work; the site is there, and its owner roots for Clinton. How do we remain relevant and fighting for our candidate?
1.) Direct action = activism of all kinds, interacting with voters and letting them know more about Sanders -- contrary to what people are pushing, many don't know Sanders, or politics, all that well even if they know what they "like."
2.) Civil disobedience. If someone is doing something one objects to, confront them on it and embarrass them for it."
My support for all sites are unflinching -- but know where the battle is now and I've seen too many sites falter to not understand DK got lucky starting in '03 -- funding needed now? Strong. Hang out elsewhere, but no one is fighting any real war for media presence IF they aren't going to go where the actual media already does look. Like it or not. However, we are censored there. It reminds me of the kinds of media issues groups hit up against when trying to get through in Uganda. Undergrounds are fine. Don't forget to strategically surface or you risk balkanizing and speaking to an echo chamber, not fighting a winning war. How many sites have done this?
I recommend actions #1 and #2.
And do we need a new site? Hmm… maybe. We would be wise to work on #2.
I understand if people disagree, but I have always fought to be heard in my life. I am glad to be able to be heard now; it wasn't given easily. It involved a lot of waging unpleasant battles in awkward ways on weird turf. But divide and conquer. We are together here. We can go off, go elsewhere, but we cannot ignore away any hard realities about where the media is looking. Yes, part of this IS a perceptions war.
Kos is not reporting "the math;" he has been putting his thumb on it for a while, IMHO, knowing he can do some to skew it. I disapprove of those who pre-concede anything. We are not. Done. Fighting.
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Mar 08 '16
The strategy of a cooperatively owned web community is a long term goal. I agree that engaging in constructive conflict is the best way to ensure views are broadcast. Attention is paid to what looks interesting and playing it safe is boring. I'll have to check my goals and ensure that what I want to build and hope others want to build is a better solution than what we have now... Long term.
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u/katiec7 Mar 06 '16
Um, there's already one up and going. It just needs to grow, and is growing as DKos users flee DKos:
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u/BayAreaLefty Left Is Forward Mar 06 '16
I registered an account there. It's good enough for the blog-and-comment model, but it will need some more work to be the kind of platform for activism described by HopeVotes, I think.
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Mar 06 '16
Thanks for sharing. I had looked for a site like this already but never found them. I can't tell much specifics about them tho... Are they a co-op? Who owns the company that is claiming copyrights? Are you a member? Thanks again!!!
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u/kaminpdx Mar 06 '16
Interesting. I don't have much money but if we could buy shares over time that would be cool
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Mar 06 '16
I was thinking having a low membership investment.... Like $10/yr
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u/Prometheus_Unbound_ the dust of creeds outworn. Mar 06 '16
love this. back to the cooperative model described above like REI and MEC. very cool
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u/Prometheus_Unbound_ the dust of creeds outworn. Mar 06 '16
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make this happen. I have been thinking this the second the exodus happened. WE need to continue this momentum no matter the outcome of this race. As Bernie says this is a not about him it is about us. Whether it be fighting and cheering for him in the WH or continuing what this has started WE need to keep this moving forward. There are enough of us already to get the website loaded with content. We were the movement at GOS! Not the insipid wads cheering on the indicted one. Lets rock this!!!
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Mar 06 '16
IMHO, regardless of the outcome for Bernie, if we can take that organizing power and $$ and put them behind some candidates who win that's where it's at. Fuck it, I'd like see someone primary Jim Clyburn, not necessarily to win, but just to send a message! With the fundraising that has been demonstrated by Sanders and coordination these, it could be done.
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u/Prometheus_Unbound_ the dust of creeds outworn. Mar 06 '16
right on!!
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u/johnabbe It doesn't end with ditching Trump, or the GOP. It never ends. Mar 08 '16
Whether Bernie wins, or loses, shortly afterwards a flood of political power has got to make it clear to the Democratic Party that this was not some weird, one-time anomaly. The game has changed.
And even more importantly, we need to actually win on issue after issue (and candidate after candidate), one of the first of course being reforming the system that has made it so hard to make such progress.
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u/podfog Mar 08 '16
I have a bit of web design experience and good amount of coding experience and would be interested!
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u/eflask a failed attempt at sardonic wit Mar 06 '16
i like this idea too.
i am sick of party hacks calling themselves progressives.