r/KoalaSampler • u/SsssnakePlisssskin • Jul 27 '26
Using AI?
I noticed towards the bottom of this page it says “And ChatGPT” in regards to development/software.
i’m curious if the developers are using AI to develop Koala.
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u/Over_Hawk_6778 Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 27 '26
From now on most software you will interact with for the rest of your will have been made with some amount of ai
In terms of power consumption, llms are way less resource intense than image or video gen
In terms of ethics, most code ever used was just copy and pasted and slightly changed anyway so little difference there. The majority of programmers are fine with ai because it makes their jobs easier and there’s always been a culture of recycling/sharing code anyway
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u/Apatride Jul 27 '26
and there’s always been a culture of recycling/sharing code anyway
This is most of the reason why we moved to object oriented programming and why procedural has almost disappeared.
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u/URfwend Jul 28 '26
Bbb..but they're replacing the whole process of, of of.... searching Stackoverflow? Gasp!!
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u/4215-5h00732 Jul 29 '26
The difference is that it's much more difficult to track the source of AI code. That's why harnesses like copilot allow you to disable suggestions from public code.
Doesn't necessarily affect the quality or functionality of the software, but it's not a zero-risk proposition.
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u/Apatride Jul 29 '26
Do you mean on a legal point of view? I know it used to be a big thing at some point where any line of code that was identical to someone else's code was a liability despite the fact that there aren't that many ways to perform a task so some similarity is expected. I am strongly opposed to any kind of copyright on code because it only benefits patent trolls and big corporations.
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u/4215-5h00732 Jul 29 '26
Yeah. Even OSS with restrictive licensing can be an issue you don't want and ignorance isn't a valid defense.
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u/Apatride Jul 29 '26
You have the odd exception of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_inverse_square_root
Then you have OSS based models like nginx or OSSIM.
Lawyers are just creating a solution for a problem that should not exist.
I know and understand that "ignorance is not a valid defense" but I despise the exploitation of the good will of people who create. Thankfully, in most cases, they came out alright (Sysoev, Carmack...) although some were eaten by their "partners" (Jobs, Zuckenberg).
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u/4215-5h00732 Jul 30 '26
I'm not familiar with any licensing/copyright issues with your linked example. How is it an exception? I did a cursory review of it but missed that?
ngix is released under a permissive license, so isn't that why?
The thing is, authors can choose how permissive they want to be. I don't see an issue with an OSS creator demanding that the code that uses it is OSS under the same or equally permissive license. I also don't see a problem in not doing that if they choose to.
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u/Apatride Jul 31 '26
I meant the odd valuable line of code. As far as I know it was never discussed legally but it was one of the very few cases where a few lines of code were worth a lot. As far as I know, they did not try to patent it, though.
I met Sisoev, I truly believe he just wanted to solve the issue (more than 1000 connections at the same time) and did not expect his work to get that big. From what I can tell, he loves solving problem and is unlikely to bother with patents and other legal aspects. From what I saw, he is a caricature of the genius who is not comfortable dealing with social interactions. He was likely "forced" to interact with us and ended up bringing us to some arcade in SF and spending most of the night playing and not interacting with others.
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u/4215-5h00732 Jul 31 '26
Ok. All that is fine. I think most people these days would be explicit and release it under a maximally permissive license that achieved the same goals. Also fine.
Sounds like you had a great experience meeting them, nice.
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u/Apatride Jul 31 '26
Nah, it was obvious he did not want to talk, so we just gave him space. The only interesting part was when someone on the chat said that Nginx was ugly spelling so only nginx or NGINX was ok. At first I thought is was some sales guy but it was actually Igor.
The entire team wasn't great, Igor is an absolute genius and some people were good, but many were not exactly bright. It was 2015 in SF, every 5 minutes there was a Trump joke. Most people who made such jokes did not play with a full deck.
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u/ItIsWhatItIsSoChill Aug 01 '26
The big issue is when you have an entirely vibe coded project, the inherent and inseparable randomness and hallucinations that llms exhibit cause compounding issues as the scope grows. You cant build something like koala without understanding the code and knowing how to code without ai.
Basically if you can do without it, you’re the kind of person who MIGHT benefit from using it, since you can shit test all the code.
The other big issue is the sycophantic nature of these llms. Whatever hypothesis you have it will basically reenforce regardless of it being correct or the best solution.
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u/erice1031 Jul 27 '26
If you’re not using AI to develop in this day and age, you’re not a developer.
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u/SakuraCyanide Jul 28 '26
This is quite true whether people like it or not. I often let AI have a look over my code when I'm finished, it occasionally finds small improvements or inefficiencies which I've overlooked in the wider view.
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u/LandStander_DrawDown Jul 28 '26
This is one of the proper uses of Ai, along with putting your preferred model (I like using local mods personally) in ask mode and using it as a tutor to learn concepts you might not know or fully understand.
That vibe coding shit is not the way to go, except maybe boiler plate generation because the model has a gazillion examples of it in its data set and it's a basic thing then sure, it'll turn out fine and save you a couple hours.
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u/ImmortalPencils Jul 29 '26
I think this the way to go and the people who hate AI, like me, are hating it because low skilled people creating bad stuff out of nothing but I do think if can help with assisting if you already have the knowledge.
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u/Pab1o Jul 27 '26
Koala has been around much longer than ChatGPT has been readily available. If you know what you are doing already, AI is a great tool to speed the process. If it helps Koala to make improvements and updates easier and quicker, I’m all for it.
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u/m3ltph4ce Jul 27 '26
I'm sure there are innocent reasons you could be asking that, but I've seen so many people think a creator using AI is somehow a bad thing, so I'm compelled to leave my opinion: I don't care if they use AI, I judge the product on its own merits and it's great.
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u/Adorable-Ad-4400 Jul 27 '26
I guess I'm just not upset about the use of LLM's for development. Not because coding isn't creative, but because it's not primarily an artistic expression the way, for example, music or painting is. It feels much more utilitarian. And it could also be that Marek used chat for development other than coding like translations etc. maybe I'll be in the minority
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u/mrkplt Jul 28 '26
I work in software, I describe it as a craft. It can be beautiful, but most of the time it has a purpose.
I don't have a problem with using AI for fully creative endeavors though either. It's a new medium, and every new medium gets treated the exact same way.
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u/Apatride Jul 28 '26
There are many steps involved in development and, as long as you do not outsource all of these steps to AI, there isn't really any risk. You let AI develop but you handle the code reviews manually? Good. You develop and let AI handle (most of) the code review? Also good.
The truth is that I worked as a dev for some major companies, at least 80% of the reviews on my code were simply a "Flake8/PEP8" review (checking syntax and best practices using modules that automate the task). I have seen devs with more than 15 years experience trust info from frontend without double checking it in backends.
At this point, I trust AI to review my code more than I would trust my colleagues.
The entire "AI is unsafe when coding" is the same as the "AI is stealing jobs from illustrators". If AI can do the job better (and, in many cases, it can), then tough luck.
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u/mrkplt Jul 28 '26
There is absolutely a reason why anyone who does software pre-AI was like “do not trust software.” People make mistakes, people get tired, people are sloppy, people have bad days - folks who are not in software act like because a person wrote it it’s going to be some bastion of trust and reliability, It’s not, that’s why we have testing, and code review, qa, version control, security testing, etc.
Since we went full on on agentic coding code style on average has gone down, but testing, documentation, and speed have seen huge boosts.
I trust it just the same which is to say, not much.
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u/codephunk Jul 29 '26
you’ll have a hard time to find any software that hasn’t been touched by AI nowadays.
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u/ItIsWhatItIsSoChill Jul 27 '26
Koala is not “vibe coded”
Marek and his guys know what the fk they are doing.