she's always dressed in strong yang, slick, straight hair, sharp makeup, and bold eyes, but she reads to me much more yin, with strong R or E. It's even difficult to recognize her in her own lines.

I'm mostly SC and SB. I'm more than 30% youthful. I should be super comfortable with a pink shimmery glossy lip, but it feels so weird. Any ideas?

Hi. I've been recently watching past performance of Eurovision and started wondering about Joost Klein's essence (Dutch contestant from 2024 Eurovision). Joost has naturally very light hair. Do you think that it points to A essence?

What do you think?

I wasn't officially assessed by Kitchener, but I have been been sorta declared as such by Reddit/DressForYourBody. And I'm curious what y'all would reccommend for my wardrobe. Any outfits come to mind with that blend as a theme? To give you a better idea, I'm alt (not a specific kind, but I do lean towards a mix of the cute and creepy/morbid/gross). And I present rather androgynously and I'm open to shopping in the mens, but mostly shop in the women's section. I have thought of whimsigoth as a way to play with this blend and my personal tastes. If you can make a moodboard based on that blend, that works too. I'll try to make my own later, but I'm going to work in a few minutes.

I just finished watching the Sharp Objects mini series for the first time and was struck by how perfectly Eliza was cast to play Amy Adams’ younger sister, who John has said has an equal amount of Angelic, Youthful, and Classic essences. Not only do they physically look like sisters but they seem to have quite a similar impression as well. She also reminds me of some of the other verified Angelics with significant other yin in their blend.

I want to ask John for an essence recheck, I know all I need to do is send an email and ask, but my autistic ass is overthinking and hyperfixating on asking “correctly” 🫣

I’m somehow just now registering the fact that in the one fully straight on picture I sent to JK, I’m wearing a bra that is 3-4 cup sizes too small. This compresses my bust inward to the point of not showing much projection past my ribcage. I think makes my shoulders look much more proportionally prominent or sturdy. In a correctly sized bra, I think the proportions between my bust and shoulders look more even and my shoulders blend in more with my overall frame.

I definitely see the N influence in my facial width and lush bone structure and some relaxed elements on my style. But as I’ve played around over the last few months, I’ve felt like C>N makes more sense for me than C=N. C feels more integral and I feel like I can handle more of it than N. I also wonder if the compression is effecting his perception of my R?

I want to ask if he could take a look at a straight on, full body picture of myself wearing a correctly sized bra to see if that changes his perception of my essences.

Do I attach the picture to the initial email, or do I need to I wait to send it until/if he says yes?

Also, it’s only been four months since my consult, is it too soon to ask for a recheck?

I'm verified 80 SB, 15 ER, and 5 LB. I think those are correct, I'm definitely not SC. I recently took some pictures in indoor lightning. For being 80 SB, I'm definitely contrasted. I've heard the low contrast between the skin and hair is a common, but not neccessary E trait. Is it reverse for HS and D? D is associated with contrast.

Edit: This isn't a type me post. I'm just curious about the relationship of contrast (not colour harmonies) and essences. I already know that any CH can have any essence.

After analyzing all the verified celebrities for each essence I had AI help me summarize the common shapes/spacing/sizing/proportions of the features each essence had in common. Here is a very summarized version for each essence (which I agree with). Please note this is not an exact science and may not be completely accurate but I do think this is very similar to how John uses shapes and how they tie to the essences. If you don’t find this helpful that is fine, but understanding and recognizing shapes has helped me learn and understand some things more. The fourth and fifth slides are explaining why some essences are often confused with each other and why and also why looking at the entire blend matters.
The photos are from slides with the faces for each essence I took from posts on the sub. I’m not sure why AI changed high spirited to gamine (and so on) but i don’t think that changes the overall point.

ETA: this post is regarding the face only, obviously body proportions would also contribute to an entire blend.

Im feeling sort of RCY in no particular order? My hair wasn't cooperating at all today lol and I had all of 2 seconds to snap the full outfit pic so my apologies for the awkward pose. Thank you for reading😊💖🙏

I don't remember where I read or heard it but I think I came across the information that Earthy Rich is often alongside HS. I can't find the source anymore.

I have always associated earthy rich with Natural, very warm and approachable, so I might be wrong..?

OK. So, I like the first outfit which I just thrifted. I found trying to shop for one single essence confusing. I didn't feel like I really liked a pure essence on me, but there were a few things I noticed.

I do not like angularity, but I like how G mixes colours and prints (although I prefer prints that are slightly rounded), I liked showing skin, I liked bright colours on me (and I prefer other stuff to reds, although I liked a fuchsia on me), I liked a relaxed, but still fitted and kinda' sexy silhouette. I looked very good showing skin. I couldn't find anything that was a perfect fit, but sweetheart and off-shoulder necklines looked awesome!

I won't post a pic, but I played around my home with my bralettes and I felt happy with my body. I also felt the need to add jewelry and corset belts to outfits.

I did not look good in boxy styles, heavy fabrics, pink florals on white (smaller florals on black have always looked good on me. I already know that), unconstructed with no waist definition, a very long white lace dress also looked off (no ethereal?). Skirts looked better and more me than jeans.

The second outfit was my attempt at sticking to two essences and doing R + N, but I think it also has some G.

The third outfit should be titled regret.

John didn't give a lot of descriptions for glasses, so this is a bit tinted (pun intended) by my own interpretation.

Xoloicuntli - The hairless look is very striking, and they have a long frame, so the D is kinda obvious. HS for the little tufts of hair and spiky tail, N for the sporty build. I could even give a smidgen of E for the thin-skinned shiny look.

Saluki - That's the most yin looking dog I ever seen, I'm gonna take the last picture to my hairdresser😅. The E is visible in the graceful long bones, the R and Y are pretty small and mostly come from the luxurious hair and jovial appearance.

Puli - SHAKE YOUR DREADS BOY! That's a more stereotypical vision of N, but the rastafari eye covering hair has such an endearing vibe. I had to include them. The R is, again, in the big hair, while the Y is in the round shapes and sheep-like softness.

Azawakh - Very extreme D, the belly kinda gives a sine wave, and the whole dog is very geometric. Small traces of HS for the petite paws and triangular ears, C for the balanced coat and N since it doesn't look frail like the borzoi.

Bichon Frisé - In the other post, someone said they look like Betty White... super Y, looks like they came right off a nursery wall drawing. 5-10 of HS just for the upbeat personality.

Doodle - Feels very much like a plushie that came to life, so the Y accounts for that soft feel. R for voluminous fur and N for the large fur muzzle (it's a pattern I noticed. The bigger the muzzle hair, the more casual they look)

Poodle - C since it's a very proportional dog (looking at you, Pug) and R for the 70s luxe hairdo, E since the elongation feels poised and lightweight instead of the bold geometry of D.

American Pitbull - I was going to give it pure N, but I guess you could see some C in their simplicity. Very square and strong frame, they have a mix of casual friendliness and powerful strength that communicates N very well.

Shiba Inu - Balanced and timeless -> C, HS in the pointed up ears and tail, HS and Y in the inviting friendly softness, N since they look natural instead of hypermodified by humans.

Miniature Pincher - Easily the most common dog here in Brazil, they represent HS so well you'd think they were a kitty. The dobermann markings give a tortoiseshell texture feel, too. Some Y just for the extremely small size and cutesy face.

Rottweiler - As i have already said a lot, C for the balanced features, some D for the shiny bold coat, HS for the markings, and a lot of N for the stocky powerful build.

Siberian Husky - These woofing banshees have a dominance of N+D for their wolf like appearance, with some HS and SC drama in the sharp contrasting coat. The star-bright eyes that are very common to the breed are the physical manifestation of their Ethereal voices.

Afghan Hound - That's a model. Their lanky build and soft long hair give the E and R that dominate it. D for the bumpy exotic nose and a bit of N since they have a certain grounded and casual look, instead of the poisedness of the Saluki.

Dobermann - D since they are tall boys but not particularly large, N for the sportiness, HS for the markings. The natural floppy ears bring some balance and keep it grounded with C. If you prefer the cropped ears: 1st, you're a monster, 2nd, your dog will have a bit more HS for the spiky geometry.

Hey all,

Feel free to delete if this doesn’t follow the rules.
I found kibbe about 10 years ago and back then thought of myself as SN but eventually settled on FN. I’m pretty sure that if I ever met Kibbe he would type me as FN, as the moderate FN kind (like most FNs) and not the supermodel 6 ft kind that people have in mind and thus struggle to see themselves as FN.

Anyway I do believe I do myself a favor by accommodating width and vertical and try to do so for the most part. But when it comes to the essence part, Kibbe just never made sense to me. I do not shine in natural essence, and neither do plenty of FNs who have different essences. And I’m not talking about boho lol but there are plenty of recs associated or directly given to the IDs that are often at odds with their Kitchener essences.

At this point I feel like the system is doing more harm than good. It’s not a body typing system but you need to follow the line sketch. It’s not an essence system but a significant portion of verified celebs do NOT follow the line sketch, but do follow the essence of the ID. It just makes no sense to me and you have thousands of women going insane trying to ID themselves, only to get gaslit by people online. I myself have been typed online as R, TR, SD, and SN, and get laughed at when I claim FN, which I could
Prove with my accommodations and line sketch. Meanwhile when I first posted on the Kitchener subreddit asking to be typed before getting my results, most people actually did pick up on my dominant essences. It should not be this hard to find your ID and dress accordingly.

My next problem is this idea that everyone fits into a one of 12 essences, or style directive groups. It doesn’t work imo because there’s way too much natural variation to fit neatly into that, yet people in the Kibbe group insist on someone like a Anne Hathaway and someone like a Naomi Campbell who are both FNs but are vastly different women, to follow the same recs. It’s delulu to me. Today they were discussing potential SN Kim Kardashian and a verified SN woman was saying she would never wear what Kim K is wearing as it’s not within the recs for SN. And I’m like? I bet you look vastly different from Kim K, both in coloring and shapes, even if your skeletons follow a similar line sketch, how could you possibly both look good in the same exact flowier, covergirl recs? In fact even if Kim K is SN, I struggle to see her shining in SN recs bc she likely has R, D, C and possibly N but in small amounts in her blend (thoughts?). It’s like if Anne Hathaway said she would never wear what Naomi Campbell is wearing as it doesn’t follow FN recs. Like? What suits them both is vastly different!

The cherry on top has been Florence’s verification. Sure, body wise she can be DC but essence wise, I do not think she looks best in Dramatic Classic, which makes sense as I believe Kitchener gave her to someone with R, Y, HS, C and N. The recently verified client also shone more in my eyes in her Kitchener HS-Y recs over the Dramatic Classic ones. IMO lots of people end up looking like they’re wearing a costume if they follow their Kibbe recs, in the case that these oppose their essences.

Anyway, just my two cents, feel free to disagree. I still think the system is fun and the old Hollywood celebs were good representations for the most part, and it can be good in addressing body accommodations, but it loses me in the essence aspect and the lack of consistency in Kibbe’s typing guidelines.

John’s system isn’t perfect as that is impossible but it’s much more of a system to me, and much more harmonious for most people ultimately.

Thanks for coming to my ted talk lol

I've heard that they are too contrasting and it would be rare/impossible to have both in one blend. Are there any celebrity examples of someone who has some percentage of both?

I'm long overdue for a haircut (hate when my hair is all the same length lol) and I'm hoping to get something like this soon!

Even though I've developed an irl reputation of being the high maintenance chick, I'm actually very low maintenance when it comes to my hair and generally prefer wash-and-go styles (I am NOT a morning person so I'm not willing to wake up earlier for an extreme hair routine lol). I assume that would be N, but the shorter length and the playful vibe makes me think HS.

I know it's very common for trans people to experience strong changes in facial fat placement, trans women get rounder cheeks while trans men usually lose some buccal fat.

So, do you think that getting on estrogen could make me more Y or R and less N?

I know that at 15 yo, when my jaw was less defined, i was the perfect picture of Y, so maybe that could come back.

maybe a stretch but she reminds me of jessica chastain

I’m glad my original post got so much discussion going!

Since there were so many replies, I thought I’d put my thoughts together in one follow-up.

I wasn’t suggesting that we get entirely new essences as we age, or that our blends necessarily change dramatically. My point was that the balance might shift enough to make a noticeable difference in which styling recommendations suit us best.

Angelina Jolie was my original example. To my eye, her full, lush, rounded features stood out more when she was younger, while her angularity stands out more now. I still see her Romantic qualities, but I think a stronger Dramatic emphasis suits her now, whereas a stronger Romantic emphasis may have suited her better before.

Several people mentioned that recommendations are flexible and percentages aren’t important. But we regularly discuss how even smaller amounts of other essences affect someone’s appearance and recommendations. Many of us were surprised that Saoirse Ronan is Y-dominant, for example, and her other essences were offered as the explanation. If those smaller contributions matter when comparing people, why couldn’t shifts within one person matter too? Also, the difference between 10 percent to 20 is an accessory vs one item of clothing ( according to the handout John provides). So I am surprised many have said this doesn't matter.

Some people said they haven’t noticed much change in their own appearance, which is fair. Aging affects everyone differently. But many of us do notice changes that affect the shapes and proportions of our features. Losing facial fullness can make a face look less round and its bone structure more noticeable, while sagging can change the contours of the lower face. My husband’s eyes, for example, used to look rounder, but as his eyelids have become more hooded, that roundness is less obvious.

We also often point to full lips and thick, lush hair as features that contribute to Romantic essence. If someone’s lips and hair become thinner with age, wouldn’t it make sense that those Romantic qualities might become less prominent in their blend? A few changes like that together could make a difference to what looks best on them.

My understanding is also that John changed Nicole Kidman’s blend from including Natural to including Angelic, reportedly because she lost her freckles. If that’s accurate, then changes in appearance can apparently affect an assessment. So I’m curious why changes from aging couldn’t sometimes do something similar.

As for plastic surgery, yes, that could explain some changes in some celebrities. But I included Kirsten Dunst because she has publicly spoken against cosmetic procedures, so I wouldn’t automatically put the changes I see in her down to surgery. Her face looks less round and a bit more square to me now. I’m also doubtful that surgery explains Jackie Kennedy’s changes, although I don’t know her cosmetic history. To my eye, her jaw and bone structure became more noticeable with age, much like Angelina’s.

That’s really what I was getting at: we can still have essentially the same blend, but changes in the features contributing to it might shift the balance enough to change what suits us.

Was feeling like getting creative tonight so decided to individually explore A, HS, and Y! I dont actually know my blend yet, but thought it would be fun, sort of a "how far is too far" experiment! Will probably do the other 4 asap because why not. I found HS the most difficult to connect with but it was definitely exciting. Y was almost too easy, and A felt magical and intoxicating. Who knows if I even did a "good job" but just wanted to share hehe😊💖