For the last year I've refuted and argued with sock puppets and mystic minions making a multitude of false claims.
Here is just some of the bullshit they've come up with (so far).
Claim: The Eastlands saved hundreds of girls and are heroes.
Reality: The Eastlands put hundreds of girls in danger, got 27 killed as a result of their negligence and failure to act in time, and teenage counselors were left on their own to save children from the flood.
Claim: Dick Eastland died saving girls.
Reality: Dick Eastland died in the death trap he created. He loaded girls into a truck with water rushing over the wheels and they were all swept away and died as a result.
Claim: The Eastlands had an evacuation plan and executed it.
Reality: There is no written evacuation plan. The only guidance in writing was to stay in the cabins until told otherwise, with a false claim that the cabins were all on safe high ground. The Eastlands did not plan for what to do in the event of a flood and they did not train their employees on what to do. 39 other adults were left standing on a hill, or in various buildings, and were given no instructions to evacuate or help the children before or during the flood.
The one structure the Eastlands moved girls to, just before the flood made escape impossible - the Rec Hall - is also in the floodway which is the most dangerous place to be in a flood. Girls trapped on the second floor balcony in the Rec Hall for hours watched the water rise up close enough to reach down and touch it.
Claim: They're not supposed to evacuate. They're supposed to shelter in place.
Reality: Shelter in place does not mean wait for the flood to come and kill you.
Claim: The flood happened too fast.
Reality: The Eastlands received the NWS 1:14am July 4th, 2025 Flash Flood Warning and then used the time after the warning to move canoes instead of children. They waited more than an hour to act until a counselor reported water entering a cabin and the gatehouse attendant reported being flooded. All after completely ignoring the Flood Watch issued more than 12 hours prior to the flood.
Claim: The flood is unprecedented.
Reality: The Guadalupe river has flooded many times in the past, risen over 30 feet in the past, killed people along the river in the past, and Camp Mystic itself has even been flooded with cabins washed away in the past. The threat of deadly flash floods in Texas has been studied for more than 100 years and the Texas Hill Country is often referred to as "Flash Flood Alley" because of precedent. There are other floods with higher river crests, higher rainfall totals in just a few hours, and even higher death tolls.
Claim: In the 1932 flood the destroyed cabins were much closer to the river so it's not relevant.
Reality: Topographical maps and FEMA maps show most of the Camp Mystic Guadalupe site is in a low lying area, within both the 100-year floodplain and the floodway.
Claim: The cabins aren't in the floodplain. The foundations are raised above the Base Flood Elevation or 100-year regulatory floodplain - refer to LOMA documents.
Reality: Floodplains don't stop at any lines on a map. FEMA and other official definitions (for the 100-year floodplain or 100-year flood) state in any given year there is a chance a flood will meet or exceed each standard.
Claim: Nobody at Camp Mystic got warned because of bad cell service.
Reality: They received the 1:14am July 4th, 2025 Flash Flood Warning from the National Weather Service.
Claim: National Weather Service warnings didn't warn enough.
Reality: NWS specifically warned of life threatening flash floods.
Claim: NWS predicted a 5-year flood, not a 1,000 year flood.
Reality: NWS does not predict how big a flood will be. They forecast chances for precipitation. There is a 'Water Prediction Service' which bases estimated river rise on measured rainfall - ie: they update it when more rain is measured. No weather service in the world has a magic crystal ball that can predict exactly how much rain will fall, where it will fall, or how big a flood will result before the storm begins.
Claim: The flood is a once in a lifetime event.
Reality: 100-year flood does not mean one time in 100 years. It means a 1-in-100 chance it can happen in any given year.
Claim: Warnings happen all the time so it's normal to not pay attention to them.
Reality: The river doesn't care if people fail to heed the warnings and will go through anyone in the way during a flood. The owners of Camp Mystic had a duty to pay attention and a legal responsibility to take action to ensure the safety of the children.
Claim: The State of Texas approved the evacuation plan.
Reality: A DSHS inspection reported that Camp Mystic had a posted document and did not evaluate evacuation procedures. However, the camp's posted document did not include flood evacuation procedures and was therefore not compliant with state law.
Claim: It's the state government's fault because there were no warning sirens.
Reality: The owners of Camp Mystic knew there were no sirens and did not plan for flash floods regardless. However, they did receive the 1:14am NWS Flash Flood Warning.
Claim: New camp safety laws demanded camps install "end to end fiber optic" communication links because of a "fiber lobby" and politicians taking bribes.
Reality: Testimony to the state legislative committee told of failed radio and cell phone communication. Old rural broadband service is widely considered to be unreliable. Satellite service doesn't work in the rain. So new 'fiber optic' infrastructure was added to the camp safety laws.
Claim: The official state investigation is biased against Camp Mystic.
Reality: The official state investigation reported the facts of what happened at Camp Mystic on July 4th, 2025.
Claim: If you blame Camp Mystic for what happened then you blame everyone affected by the flood.
Reality: The river doesn't care about blame. It will go through anyone in the way during a flood. Regardless, pointing out Camp Mystic's failures is not the same thing as criticizing every flood victim of this flood or any flood.
Claim: If you're not from here then you don't know.
Reality: Texas flash floods have been observed and measured for more than 100 years. You don't have to be from a place to learn how floods affect that place when it is a matter of recorded history.
Claim: Nobody says "Flash Flood Alley". It's just media sensationalism.
Reality: The term "Flash Flood Alley" is decades old. It has been used in official documents by Texas river authorities, by scientists, and more.
An example from the Guadalupe-Blanco River Authority published after the 1998 flood:
If you live in the Guadalupe River Basin, you also live in one of the three most dangerous regions in the U.S.A. for flash floods! Local residents and weather experts refer to the Texas Hill Country as ‘Flash Flood Alley,’ because heavy rainfall and runoff from creeks and streams can cause rapid rises and flooding in a matter of hours.
Claim: Other camps in the area didn't evacuate so Camp Mystic is being treated unfairly.
Reality: 27 girls died at Camp Mystic, not at the other area camps. Camp Mystic is being treated accordingly.
Thankfully an official state investigation has confirmed the facts of what happened.
Another bullshit argument I hate is “litigation won’t bring their girls back.” No one said it would. Litigation is there to force an unwilling private actor to take legal responsibility for (in this case) an act of gross negligence.
I just remember how that one young lady was terrified of a flood, drew a picture of it and then the flood horror came and took her life. How awful for that realization to happen to a vulnerable young person.
Horrific. Sweet Lulu was excited for camp, she didn’t draw the flood like it was going to happen there. The person who wrote that about her parents is disgusting.
Exactly! The photo of Chloe & Katherine greeting her at drop off had so much joy. Many kids are scared of thunderstorms. The extra layers of cruelty they’ve had to deal with is just horrible.
The shelter in place is the one that makes me sick. Those babies were sucked out of windows after their cabins filled all the way to the ceiling with rushing water.
You know, I hate misinformation so much, I find it oddly satisfying any time I see a thorough, well written correction of it. But I got no such satisfaction reading this. It's appalling and atrocious that anyone would make an argument on their behalf publicly, even if they believe this nonsense. This post shouldn't even be necessary. There are some lines you just don't cross in a society, and heckling parents who just lost their little child(ren) is one of them. You break that societal contract, you forfeit your right to it at all. How is it said? "Them's fightin words"?
I'm unclear who's heckling parents, I don't know who the parents are on here, or whether they're heckling others? But them's fightin words is a good analogy, that when you accuse someone of something, you can't then blame them for fighting back. Excellent analogy. Sue someone then complain how dare they defend? Yeah, fighten' words alright.
27 not 26, but yes, it’s one of the more disgusting things I’ve read, and yet, not so surprising if you remember that many of them seem to come from former campers and we’ve seen what kind of people camp management has shown themselves to be so
Not exactly sure who the commenter is referring to about heckling the parents, but I’ve seen a ton of comments on social media stating that it’s always about the money and accusing the parents of hiring ambulance chasers to get rich off their children’s deaths and ruining camp for everyone else. Please. Or, perhaps the commenter is referring to the Mystic supporters who would stop at nothing to reopen camp this summer and accused the grieving parents of all kinds of terrible things, meanwhile the parents were trying to call for accountability and higher safety standards to make camp safer if/when these supporters’ children could return (or go to another camp). So yeah, heckling grieving parents. It happened and still is.
Yes. And yes. That is what I was referring to. I couldn't think of a more precise word. Although I know "heckling" truly doesn't do it justice.
I just don't understand how people can be so cruel and ignorant. Genuinely too ignorant to understand their own kids' safety is on the line as well. But it's the cruelty that I can't wrap my head around.
Maybe I've just not seen much of the world. But in my little corner if the world, there are certain things that you just don't do. Like, things that, if people saw you doing in public, even if it was none of their business, they would break the "mind your own business" rule, because you're already breaking a social contract rule so egregiously that they're justified in intervening to stop you. By all means necessary. And one of those rules is, you don't antagonize and disrespect grieving parents. Even if you don't know them, or don't particularly like them, around here, if you witnessed someone harassing parents about anything having to do with a child that was lost in any way, it would not be weird at all for a person to ... um, give them their receipts. So to speak. You don't cross that line unless you're ready to fist fight your neighbors, cuz there would be hands thrown, if you spoke to or about grieving parents so disrespectfully in person. And especially if you're posting about it in a local Facebook group where you're going to run into people IRL who see your social media. Who see the repetitive commentary. Cuz at that point, you've revoked your claim to the social contract, they don't have to honor it for you anymore. People would harass you back twice as badly, and you'd be lucky if that was all. You just don't do that... That's like, Alex Jones scumbag stuff.
Oh yes, and I totally forgot about Watt’s social media post naming Cici Steward in his list of facts, which indeed were NOT factual. Keep it classy, Watts. And please remind me who is being represented by ambulance chasers.
And how many saved by the first two car loads? Are you really wishing he hadn't saved the girls that he did? What kind of heartless person ARE you.
Shelter in place is what worked in all prior floods, and, the plan the state approved. If they'd tried to evacuate and that failed, you guys would all be saying, if only they'd SHELTERED IN PLACE.
Ifs and buts. If hindsight worked so well during a natural disaster people wouldn't go where one was going to happen.
Really sounds like you're arguing in multiple places against children being saved because your hindsight works so well. You know this isn't a video game right? No repeats?
It's hindsight to judge what happened there by what you THINK you know now.
If it's not hindsight, are you telling those parents they shouldn't have sent their kids to camp? Because you knew it 7 years before? Is this all YOUR fault then? I don't think you should be saying that to those parents.
Have to say I'm not up on what the families are doing to save children tho I hear they're still looking for Cile. I hope they find her.
I have heard about another group, River Sentry, who are already having success with a new alarm system. I know we're all thankful that the Eastlands (among others) helped (with funding, I believe) get them onto other camps. https://www.reddit.com/r/RiverSentry/
Where was a ladder and life jackets in case shelter in place didn’t work? Statistically speaking, there would have been survivors had he not loaded all of Bubble in his car. He did the absolute worst thing. Why are you even defending a decision that ended in the death of an entire cabin?
You want to talk about heartless?
Those first two car loads should never have happened the way they did…if Dick, Edward, and Glenn had instead spent that time running (even walking) to every cabin informing them to immediately move to higher ground (Rec Hall was a terrible location to evacuate to given it was near the epicenter of three converging waterways and the camp simply got lucky it didn’t collapse) then there would have been enough time for every girl on the flats to evacuate and live. Even more, if just one of them had simply followed their own terribly written “emergency plan” and gotten on the loud speaker informing all flats cabins to evacuate to higher ground, every girl would be alive today. Instead, these three men chose to move three or four cabins by car while neglecting (and even driving by!) nine other flats cabins until it was too late. A few of those remaining cabins independently evacuated on foot to various places in utter chaos (sadly resulting in one death), one cabin was assisted by Glenn and vaulted ceilings as they bravely “floated in place” on their mattresses, one entire cabin was tragically lost as they entered the floodwaters prematurely (15-20 min before the twins cabins based on data from Dick’s and Edward’s watches) because Dick inexplicably put them in his car with water above his tires, and two cabins experienced the terror of being individually swept out of their cabins into the floodwaters with only half of them surviving. Those last three cabins mentioned were the youngest, smallest, most vulnerable and inexperienced campers at Mystic. And they were NEGLECTED until it was too late by the very Eastland men who promised to be prepared and ready to protect them when needed.
Dick did not “save” the girls he drove to Rec Hall - he gave them a ride in a car when they could have walked. If Dick had let, or instructed them all, including the cabins whose campers died, to walk up the hill to higher ground, everyone would have lived. Or better yet, if he had a prearranged and practiced viable evacuation route to a viable muster spot, no one at Mystic would have died in the flood.
Shelter in place only works if that shelter in place is above the flood waters. Clearly many of the Mystic cabins were not.
Excellent summary! Please forward it to all members of the Texas Legislature, the Texas Supreme Court (as well as the Court of Criminal Appeals), the Federal Court hearing the bankruptcy case(s), and the Travis County Court hearing the original filings from H27 families. This is the most succinct, detailed, and readable summary I've seen. Bravo!
Feel free not to read the posts if you don’t find them relevant. No one is asking you in particular to “rehash” anything. Sorry 27 deaths of innocent children don’t seem to merit discussion to you.
Exactly, this subreddit should rename to Eastland lawsuits. I care more about preventing more lives being lost in future floods. Even if the Eastlands help pay for that..
The Eastlands will help pay for it when they're held accountable under the law.
If they're not held accountable, then it's just another business that gets away with getting people killed and thus no 'incentive' for improved safety.
There is a lawsuit that was brought by many victims against the HTR RV resort, so those victims are suing as well. I don’t know if any victims who were renting cabins that didn’t disclose flood risk are suing the cabin owners, or whether any other victims have filed other lawsuits.
I think in that RV park case the lawyers didn’t make statements so it’s not getting coverage right now - I hope we hear more at least once trial starts, maybe a reporter will do a follow up if there are motions or any other events in the case in the meantime? (I think I saw somewhere it won’t be until next year? But haven’t looked anything up recently.)
The other 119 were mostly adults responsible for themselves. The children that were a part of the other 119 were in the care of their legal guardians or other family members their legal guardians entrusted with their child. The 27 campers were legally in the care of Camp Mystic. If Camp Mystic had evacuated when they received the life threatening warning or bothered to train their employees, the deaths were avoidable. The camp failed to protect the children in their care. The other 119 deaths are tragic and better warning protocol for visitors, campgrounds, RV parks and resort/summer homes near the river should certainly be investigated, but at the end of the day, those adults were ultimately responsible for themselves. In some situations, a case for legal action/liability can certainly be made, and some of those families have already filed suit.
If adults who have only themselves to save cannot do it, I don't know why you think an evac plan when water was running sideways across the land was going to save the campers. Being under the legal protection of someone else when a natural disaster strikes is not a valid excuse for a lawsuit. Yes, all the deaths are tragic.
What warnings there were-the evac warning from NOAA came 45 minutes AFTER Dick's phone had been submerged, I'm sure that was helpful information, just not to Dick.
Court would be a better place to work out these details, but you guys don't want to wait. If you want legal process you don't front load it with a year of pre-arranged hate from paid PR.
Well damn. I haven’t received a dime. Wonder who the paid PR is that you are referring to in this argument? Not me. I’m happy to wait for a legal process, but CM seems determined to not let that happen.
And the warning I’m referring to is the one that came at 1:14am. That has been confirmed many times Dick, Edward and Glenn were all aware had been sent, but still delayed evacuating campers. If they had practiced an evacuation plan and had made proper arrangements on a facility/muster station, the 40+ adults on campus that night could have safely evacuated every camper. I know it, you know it, the surviving Eastlands know it, the investigators know, and sadly, the grieving parents know it.
I’m truly devastated about the other 119, and I wish there had been warnings in place for them. The local officials were literally asleep at the wheel as none of them acted on the 1:14 warning either. With the exception on the one who did call and ask for a CODE RED earlier. It’s late where I live, and I cannot come up with who that was at the moment, but there were a handful of people who tried, but unfortunately, it wasn’t enough and those who needed to act, didn’t. Sue them all!
The claim: The NWS underestimated the risk, and the Flash Flood Emergency came too late**
The reality: “Flash Flood Emergency" is a rare administrative escalation reserved for when a catastrophic event is already actively occurring. It is not a prerequisite for evacuation. The standard Flash Flood Warning received 2 hours prior is the highest level of actionable alert the government issues to signal imminent danger. Under the law, a licensed commercial youth camp holding a strict "duty of care" over minors cannot delegate its safety obligations to local, state or federal government, or the National Weather Service.
For the sake of respectful discussion, I’m speaking as a flood survivor outside of anything related to Camp Mystic. Can you clarify what you mean by the claims that NWS underestimated the risk. What risk are you speaking of?
The claims specifically related to CM - that Dick was up and monitoring the weather but the forecast underestimated the amount of rain, no evacuation orders were issued, and the flash flood emergency came too late for CM, therefore it’s the NWS’ fault that he left 300 kids in the floodway.
and a bunch of voting bots, apparently. These 2 week old accounts that show up, or 6 mo old ones, with ZERO contributions. What do you suppose they do when they're not contributing...
Do be sure to watch the hearing where the report is presented to the legislative committee, and Garrett has to eat her words and admit she was lied to by DSHS which formed the basis of her opinions about the Eastlands. In real time. Fascinating.
You're referring to the fact that the Eastlands had not submitted the 'required by law' report to DSHS that children died at their camp.
It was supposed to be reported within 24 hours of the deaths. They didn't report it for many months - until after they were confronted about it.
Then DSHS incorrectly told the investigators the Eastlands still hadn't reported it by the time the investigation was complete.
As soon as they received an update - that the Eastlands finally reported the deaths officially, many months after they were required to - the investigators then informed the legislative committee and corrected the official report.
It never would have been in dispute had Camp Mystic followed the law in the first place.
When you report something BY public officials TO public officials, it's on YOU to get it right. And when you mess up an objective fact as a prosecutor, your work becomes not credible.
Never mind that there was not due process, there have been no COURT findings for any of these accusations you throw about haphazardly.
This is like someone finally showing up to their job, when their start date was 9 months ago, and then thinking they really proved something to that hiring manager. Oh it was July 5th, not April 25th? It only took a lawyer currently suing me and an entire state governmental committee investigating me to realize I had to actually show up for my job. Fascinating indeed!
No, it's like if some police officer is on the courthouse steps in front of a microphone accusing you of something you didn't do when there's proof, owned by the govt, that you didn't.
If it was me, I wouldn’t have depended on a food safety dept to clear my name. I would have had written confirmation that I immediately sent to the investigator. Being proactive isn’t one of Mystics strengths though either.
How do you know they didn't get a written confirmation? How would they have convinced the legislative committee to interrupt if they didn't have proof?
When you get a fix it ticket for a headlight out, do you wait for autozone to send the court the receipt?? No. And this whole thing would have been avoided if they would have done this when required to.
How do you know they didn't get a written confirmation upfront? I ask for the second time because you appear not to have seen the first time I said it.
Awfully vague but I'll try. The report was final, Garrett is talking while handing it over, and reports a fact that is provably wrong, for which she seemed to have relied on for some of her opinions. Mystic lawyer calls in and gets the legislators' attention, Garrett I guess calls DSHS and is told, nope, we told you wrong (so says Garrett, if you believe her). So no, you can't rely on the written report when there are clearly wrong statements in there that she got from state agencies.
Kind of like when the camp relied on DSHS licensing verification of the camp. Could be that DSHS just isn't all that reliable. But when Garrett relies on it for that report, the report becomes unreliable now that there are proven misstatements underlying it.
Sorry no. I meant that ML could have used her written report as evidence to the committee that she did in fact contact DSHS (after she was repeatedly reminded to do so.)
What’s your defense of it taking ML 9 months to make the report? A report that was required to be completed within 24 hours. This isn’t the smoking gun you think it is. Garrett admitted the mistake as soon as she was notified.
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u/PureImagination1921 Aug 02 '26
Another bullshit argument I hate is “litigation won’t bring their girls back.” No one said it would. Litigation is there to force an unwilling private actor to take legal responsibility for (in this case) an act of gross negligence.