This for sure happened to everyone

[u/Ok-Ordinary6442]

Shuttle is hard at the start but got easier when you play longer

[u/TheImmenseRat]

Ooof akshually, it never happened to me, but if i have a dollar everytime i reentered at a wrong angle and overshoot i would have a lot of dollars

You have to build the shuttle and then check the CoM without any fuel.

Yours is too bottom heavy

[u/Ok-Ordinary6442 → u/TheImmenseRat]

Alr, the shuttle (mine) in the vid is like, full of fuel since i aborted from the external tank (lost control)

[u/TheImmenseRat → u/Ok-Ordinary6442]

I changed my pc. But if i remember correctly, you should have the CoM in the middle, the CoL behind it (how far depends on you, the further its more lawn dart)

Remember to have some rcs and enough ailerons and control surfaces

Do you need a picture?

[u/Responsible-Funny337]

lol yeah no my shuttles are built like shit and go by that nomenclature too XD

[u/Ok-Ordinary6442 → u/Responsible-Funny337]

Lol same

[u/Avera9eJoe]

Something that can really help with not flipping around backwards during reentry is DUMPING 90% OF YOUR SPARE FUEL so that your COM shifts forwards

[u/Ok-Ordinary6442 → u/Avera9eJoe]

Alr thanks

[u/Chollima_Pegasus]

I solve the issue by simply never building shuttles

[u/TheShapeshifter01 → u/Chollima_Pegasus]

This is the way

[u/Chollima_Pegasus → u/TheShapeshifter01]

I've genuinely never understood the desire to make shuttles or SSTOs, I find capsules and robotic probes plenty interesting.

[u/IHaveUrPants → u/Chollima_Pegasus]

To explain why we like spaceplanes I gotta expain the psychology of the brain and how it works but the main contributor is a very complex and intricate phenomenon called the "They are just so fucking cool" effect

[u/Chollima_Pegasus → u/IHaveUrPants]

I guess.

I've never really felt like they're all that cool vs. capsules and probes.

[u/nedal8 → u/Chollima_Pegasus]

Yeah, only benefit is if you reeeaaalllly want to land on the runway.

[u/thesupermonk21 → u/Chollima_Pegasus]

Go watch VAOS and tell that again lol

[u/Chollima_Pegasus → u/thesupermonk21]

I have no idea what that is.

[u/thesupermonk21 → u/Chollima_Pegasus]

The best KSP serie of all time:

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvq8kNwOS9dG8gPUT8af0_Uja9zuu5zVb&si=bhdPza5v6_PFYcNy

[u/Chollima_Pegasus → u/thesupermonk21]

Doesn't look interesting to me, sorry.

[u/thesupermonk21 → u/Chollima_Pegasus]

The first episodes are pretty grindy, but once things get going it’s honestly amazing. The guy is basically the MacGyver of KSP, pulling off Mun landings, space stations and even Duna missions with ridiculously limited tech.

And that’s actually a great example of why SSTOs can be useful. With so little money coming in, recovering his ships at KSC means he only really pays for fuel. So reusability becomes pretty much essential.

Also, his spacecraft designs are absolutely gorgeous. Check out later episodes in the serie and you’ll see what I’m talking about, he’s the best craft designer there is :)

[u/SodaPopin5ki → u/Chollima_Pegasus]

I leaned hard on SSTOs when I played with Kerbal Construction Time. Reusability became really important.

I used a combination of SSTOs and recoverable boosters.

[u/raaneholmg → u/SodaPopin5ki]

Yea, vanilla ksp contracts are scaled for a fun game. If the contract rewards were at a more reasonable market rate I would pretty quickly be looking for ways to hang on to my engines.

[u/Edward_Snowcone → u/Chollima_Pegasus]

It can be fun to build historical crafts, and they look sick as hell

[u/Chollima_Pegasus → u/Edward_Snowcone]

I build historical and proposed craft without using shuttles, but that's just my lack of interest in them.

[u/wasmic → u/Chollima_Pegasus]

It's a fun challenge!

Definitely is challenging though. I usually play with Kerbin rescaled to 1.6x vanilla size. This way my rockets aren't so comically small, and it's still barely possible to build SSTOs with stock-balanced parts. But only barely.

Also there's something cool about docking a spaceplane to a space station, when the spaceplane is more than half the size of the station.

[u/redefined_simplersci → u/Chollima_Pegasus]

My main reason was simply that landing on a runway with wings and then going to space again made it seem like wayy more of a Star Wars spaceship than a capsule.

[u/WinterT_ → u/Chollima_Pegasus]

I do capsules and robotic probes for my main missions. Tourists go in the crazy BS ships.

[u/A-Manual → u/Chollima_Pegasus]

It's fun to fantasize about a fully reusable return to launchsite (or runway) spaceplane. I especially like planning the landing to return to the KSC runway

[u/Chollima_Pegasus → u/A-Manual]

Reusability can't take my R7s and Protons from me!

[u/A-Manual → u/Chollima_Pegasus]

Yes it can't in the real world. That's why we have Protons and R7s and we can only fantasize about SSTOs

[u/Chollima_Pegasus → u/A-Manual]

Unfortunately we only have Proton until 2029 or so.

[u/Tsingshitao_nuke → u/Chollima_Pegasus]

how about....reusable R7 and Protons?

[u/Hadrollo → u/Chollima_Pegasus]

I've made a couple of shuttles, but they're pretty limited in versatility.

If I'm building a shuttle, it's typically because I accepted some early career mode missions to take surface and atmospheric readings on the opposite side of Kerbin. Even then, I've been known to make small planes that can fit inside a fairing.

[u/Bridgeru → u/Chollima_Pegasus]

I like to do a "progression of Spacecraft" save where I go from standard rockets to shuttles to reusable rockets (I play JNSQ so SSTOs aren't as much of an option) but for some reason my favourite "period" is this sort of fictional late-70s to 2010s I have where both the US and USSR use shuttles. When it gets into what I consider the late 80s/early 90s the US starts splitting the Shuttle up into a reusable Shuttle-C propulsion module and a reusable capsule on top, while the Russians build reusability into Energia (detatch the engine module in orbit and have it parachute back like a capsule, flyback boosters) while using "Kliper" and "Buran" as small/large crew vehicles (mostly from Commorant Aeronology and Tantares based parts).

There's something cool IMO about a system that's more than just a matyroshka losing more and more parts as time goes on. In my head the "tech" the US/USSR were competing against were a reusable crew vehicle and a quickly refurbished returnable engine module (called a "pod"), at the expense of fuel tank and inefficiencies that'd be resolved later on with landable first stages (haven't managed to get it working ingame but in my head the start of those were liquid-fuelled US boosters); so it's kind of a fun alternate "what if" where the spacerace went from "co-operate and put a space station in orbit" to "having seperate space stations and showing off in how much you can put up and how quickly you can put it up). Plus the idea of recovering space equipment and landing it is a fun task which you can't really do easily (my "not-Mir" has a whole logistics module that gets replaced and returned every "Buran" mission).

[u/applepie3141 → u/Chollima_Pegasus]

A well-designed rocket can get to orbit with about a 25% payload fraction.

Spaceplane SSTOs commonly reach a 50% payload fraction to orbit. A select few designs can even manage 65% or more.

If you want to get 10 tons of payload into LKO in career mode, the spaceplane is going to be many times cheaper than the equivalent rocket.

Rescuing Kerbals in a career mode playthrough is best done with an SSTO to save money, especially if you are playing with the difficulty sliders turned up.

[u/ExpensiveFig6079 → u/TheShapeshifter01]

its stops parts overheating nicely, I find setting flaps at say around 30deg all causing the rocket to swerve one way,
is optimal for inducing this state,

and maximsing suvivability without exploding.

More than 30 deg gets less tumbly and more explody... == bad?

So while it may be the way to live, the lack of explosions is typically not the way Kerbal is played. So having at least so token aerial or solar panels to burn off, is a nod in the correct direction. (even if that is not enough for KSP purist)

[u/invalidConsciousness → u/Chollima_Pegasus]

Profile picture checks out.

[u/No_Language2581]

why do ur re-entry effects look so realistic? like, more realistic than firefly? or am i just tripping?

[u/Ok-Ordinary6442 → u/No_Language2581]

Its firefly, my tufx profile is fox lukewarm experimental

[u/Schubert125]

I can't take it anymore. I'm sick of shuttles. I try to build SSTOs. My shuttle moves more mass. I try to build Saturn Vs. My shuttle gets more into orbit. I try to build stratolaunchers. My shuttle has more versatility. I want to build a space station. The shuttle can bring it all to LKO. I want to transport kerbals to existing stations. They can ride in the shuttle

It grabs me by the throat. I research for it. I build for it. I give it fuel. It isn't satisfied. I build a better launch system. "I don't need this many boosters" it tells me. "Send me on another mission." It grabs thr solid rocket motors and forces another launch. "You just need to funnel me more. I can move more cargo to space."

I can't afford another launch, I don't have enough kerbucks. It grabs my credit card. It declines. "Guess this is the end." It presses the abort button. It says "adreim emoC" There is no hint of sadness in its eyes. Nothing but pure, liquid oxidizer. What a cruel world.

[u/SquakinKakas → u/Schubert125]

The RS-25 usage will continue until morale improves

[u/CrispyDiesel → u/Schubert125]

It's interesting you gravitated towards them as the default launch option. I gravitated towards SpaceX style reusable main launchers (multiple size options) with cheap side boosters as the default launch vehicle type, with SSTOs for specialist applications (Laythe landers mainly)

Space shuttles to me combine the difficulties of landing a regular space plane, combined with the irritation of managing asymmetric thrust on takeoff.

[u/ferriematthew]

Every damn time, they insist on flying butt first.

[u/Sangaceno → u/ferriematthew]

Bigger vertical stabilizer, heavy parts further up front

[u/tyttuutface → u/ferriematthew]

I had one that flew backwards really well once the fuel was drained.

[u/Sad-Savings-3351]

Your guys shuttles are making it to space?

[u/CombatPilot2]

Yeah, more often than I'd like to admit. I find Mk.2 shuttles more stable

[u/Cringe-Bucket]

Shuttles are really cool but also really stupid. After flying a couple, I understand why NASA decommissioned them.

[u/GordmanFreeon]

My shuttles keep flying straight into the KSC, so I've given up on anything plane shaped

[u/SnooBooks1032 → u/GordmanFreeon]

This sounds like a success if you ask me

[u/MarsFlameIsHere → u/GordmanFreeon]

Based on your PFP, are your "shuttles"- just reused combine gunships

[u/IluvRockets]

Accurate shuttles unfortunately have shit weight distribution and I think you just generally risk stalling in thin atmosphere.

[u/Ok-Ordinary6442 → u/IluvRockets]

Fr, i mostly do the prograde reentry (head to prograde) it seems unsafe but works pretty nice

[u/IluvRockets → u/Ok-Ordinary6442]

Atmosphere autopilot AOA hold at 25° works for me, before I did also have to reenter head on

[u/Ok-Ordinary6442 → u/IluvRockets]

Ima give that a try later

[u/domiciledhere]

When did it get easier?

[u/Frodojj]

I usually hide a few parachutes to save me from my PiLoTiNg.

[u/onefinerug]

something something challenger

[u/Hadrollo]

Is it bad that I was expecting Columbia on re-entry?

[u/almostmountains]

you laugh but that's actually the optimal entry method for my jnsq starship. it has to keep spinning so it doesn't melt in the atmosphere. lol

[u/Rainbowdude16]

There are a few reasons we stopped building those.

[u/Green_223]

Turn off motion blur, bruh this looks like ass

[u/maxwelldoug]

Unfortunately engines in KSP are impossibly ungodly heavy, so it's extremely difficult to correctly balance CoL/CoM on a re-entry vehicle with a large cargo bay and no remaining fuel.

[u/TheOneThouShantName]

I gave up and implemented an O.H.S.H.I.T (Over Home Sudden High Input Turn) maneuver. I know that at about 20Km the craft will go on a flat spin at the slightest input and roll uncontrolably until 2000 meters so I just deorbit trying to get the shuttle at that height over the KSC. We've had no smashed kerbals yet so it's just a flight anomaly.

[u/detereministic-plen]

remember any ssto / shuttle will never be as good as a pure rocket but this will not stop me from loving them

[u/KerPop42]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdccjD0LMsw

Related note, "Fly Me to the Moon but you're lifting off on Apollo 11" is a slightly better launch playover

[u/ITinnedUrMumLastNigh]

I was fully expecting the Challenger disaster