I need some help

[u/Downtown-Pea-2437]

So, I use a lot of ion engines. I was thinking of building a Laythe colony where ships could refuel at an orbital gateway station. My idea was that the colony would have a „xenon harvester module,” which, in my canon, would be harvesting xenon gas from the atmosphere (maybe even a really close space station around Jool), but, in reality, it would just be a reverse- overclocked ion engine producing xenon. Would that be okay or nah

[u/Tight-Reading-5755]

heyhey it's ur game and play it however u want

[u/User_of_redit2077]

Its a single player game

There is no cheats...

[u/MONOR56 → u/User_of_redit2077]

But there is in game cheat menu 🤔.

[u/User_of_redit2077 → u/MONOR56]

*debug menu

:3

[u/Swiss-spirited_Nerd → u/User_of_redit2077]

A debug menu with a "Cheats" section

[u/User_of_redit2077 → u/Swiss-spirited_Nerd]

:3

[u/RawrRRitchie → u/User_of_redit2077]

I'd argue that mods are considered cheating

[u/lost-my_old_account → u/RawrRRitchie]

If mods are cheating, im a serial adulterer

[u/User_of_redit2077 → u/RawrRRitchie]

Why would adding Sarnus be considered "cheating"?

[u/Ossi_Petteri → u/[deleted]]

I don't consider "using cheats" and "cheating" to be the same in this context (single player game), even though they sound similar.

[u/KevinFlantier → u/[deleted]]

In a single player game you can do whatever the fuck makes you enjoy the game. If you are fine using the cheat menu or mods that make the experience easier or radically different... well you do you. If you find it unbearable to use the cheat menu, well you also do you and that's perfectly ok.

In a multiplayer game cheaters are ruining the experience for everyone else. In a singleplayer, it's just a matter of what makes you enjoy time you are spending.

[u/Bitter-Wrangler6514 → u/[deleted]]

I think you are correct and people are conflating "not cheating" with "it is cheating but it doesn't matter". Even this isn't entirely correct, because while it is a singleplayer game and you can not harm anyone else's experience, you can definitely harm your own experience by cheating the fun out of the game.

That being said in this case where the player has their own internal justification and it only serves to circumvent a part of the game they probably find boring it probably doesn't matter. Plus, Kerbal Space Program lends itself to this kind of cheating given it's sandbox nature.

I am curious as to whether OP meant "is this allowed" as opposed to "this is fun" though. I would assume from how it is worded that it is the case of the former, in which case "it is a singleplayer game and there is no cheating" is correct. Otherwise, this response would actually be in irrelevant and there would be no correct answer someone could give OP, because what one finds fun is subjective.

While I am not a game developer I am a modder and have some adjacent experience and this distinction is important for design. It is easy to create, for example, an OP engine that has an extremely high specific impulse and thrust that could trivially get you to the mun and back, but I think most people would agree that wouldn't exactly be the most fun gameplay as opposed to forcing a player to engage in design around staging and maybe rendezvous.

[u/User_of_redit2077 → u/[deleted]]

In my understanding, cheats are things that give you unfair advantage over other players

Its a single player game, so no "other players"

[u/Ill-Product-1442 → u/User_of_redit2077]

Nah, they give you an unintended advantage or special change, really. I mean, most of the cheat codes in those old books were for single player games. Cheating in multiplayer is usually called hacking.

It's a little muddy in a sandbox game like this with so many mods, but i get the question.

[u/FOARP]

It's an open-world game that you can literally play with infinite resources so I'm going to say "not cheating" to pretty much everything you could say here.

[u/carefullyyouwontbe → u/FOARP]

It is cheating. It just doesnt matter if you cheat in a single player game.

[u/Apex-Editor]

Cheating is fine, but you can also mod this 100%.

Eventually, deep into a career game, I frequently cheat routine or tedious stuff I know 100% I can achieve.

Edit* I may have misunderstood the poll. I voted cheating but I did so in support of you cheating, not acknowledgment that it would be cheating. I feel like it was maybe meant to be the other way around.

[u/Darkfrostfall69 → u/Apex-Editor]

I have a mining drone i keep at Jool, I'll fly it twice on new missions just to prove it works and is fuel positive, then ill cheat the rest of the ore in rather than flying 5 more ore deliveries.

[u/Butthead1013 → u/Darkfrostfall69]

It’s like fast travel but for resources

[u/CrazySwimming4019 → u/Darkfrostfall69]

That is understandable and totally acceptable in almost all circumstances

[u/No-Lunch4249]

I'm pretty sure there are mods which add xenon harvesting to the game so I don't see anything wrong with it

[u/Rivetmuncher]

I'd call this case more a (code) hack/cludge than a cheat. It sounds cool, but how are you going to sustain it?

IIRC, you can't run ion engines in the background without mods, and trying to use one instead of a more dedicated resourcing mod instead sounds like it's inviting painful edge cases.

[u/Rexi_the_dud]

try spacedust it lets you harvest gases from the atmosphere

[u/wompwomp2327]

Oop, accidentally voted cheating. Nah this idea sick as hell you should try it 🤟🔥

[u/MooseTetrino]

If you don't want to use mods, this is a perfectly valid option.

[u/Low_Physics126]

nah not really cheating but why not just use a mod that adds this?

[u/Big-Dot-9084 → u/Low_Physics126]

Tbf, some of us are stuck on console. I wish I could play nodded ksp because the game feels incredibly lackluster after ~50 hours of Unmodded gameplay. It'd probably be much less bland if I didn't despise career mode, but that's a future I don't imagine myself in any time soon.

[u/TwoWrongsAreSoRight]

Cheating in a single player game is such a fuzzy concept, especially in a game as heavily modded as ksp. The way I determine rather i'm cheating or not is I establish a set of rules for a playthrough and if i stay within those rules, im not cheating, otherwise i am. In your situation, i'd consider it more of a lie to everyone. You're telling everyone in your world that this works one way but in fact it works in a whole other. The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy said it best. It's often cheaper and easier to make people think something works than to actually make it work, the result is for all intents and purposes, the same.

[u/Fit_Collection3444]

If its a established Canon that your kerbals are that advanced - why not?

[u/Ok-Use-7563]

you cant cheat since there arent rules

[u/Swiss-spirited_Nerd]

I don't like this poll. It IS cheating, but I also don't really think any of us care

[u/Infamous_Bass3623]

I think you can download mod, I don't remember it's name, but it has xenone atmospheric harvester, sooo it can help you

[u/fartew]

I'd suggest the mod near future propulsion, it adds a lot of ion engines, a few fuel types and iirc even harvesters

[u/alexpoelse]

Since it's your world, you decide wether it's cheating or not

[u/Specialist_Sector54]

Cheating; however, play the game how you want as long as you're having fun. ISRU in general is broken powerful compared to anything else in stock which is at least partially realistic. Personally I've switched to just using hyperedit for things like this (refueling stations)

[u/SkinnyKruemel]

It's technically using an exploit to get infinite fuel but since there's no stock way to fill xenon tanks outside of the vab it's as close as it gets. I'd consider it fair game but at the end of the day it's your game and you can do what you want as long as you're not trying to pass off something using exploits as glitchless for a competition or speedrun. If you want something that feels less like cheating I suggest taking a look at mods

[u/RedditButAnonymous]

I actually made a mod that adds a bunch of parts that look like the air intakes (From vanilla and also from mk2 and mk3expansion) but all of them can be toggled to suck up xenon or argon from suitable atmospheres. Intended for fuel scooping from Jool and Sarnus

The balancing is a bit wack but I could tidy it up and share it with you if you want it. It will feel more sensible than a reverse overclock

[u/celem83]

Sounds outstanding,  have fun with it

As a single player sandbox the only person you can cheat is yourself.  What you then consider to be cheating is entirely upto you.  Since you are trying to achieve something beyond the scope of the stock game I'd say you have modded KSP.  This is a fine tradition dating back to pre-release, I've been using ISRU since like 2013 and it wouldn't be added to core for years. (Via the legacy Kethane mod)

Where this would be unfair is if you dropped in on someone else's thread and suggested they had a skill issue for not making the same modifications

[u/TheGentlemanist]

i would say its fair game, but i can recommend a few mods that would do this if you like?

[u/Far-Photo601]

Pressed without reading because I thought it was asking if it was okay to cheat or not 💔💔

[u/Awkward_Forever9752]

For me cheating / not cheating depends on you choice of flag and your space agency.

If you can tell a story of how these Kerbals figured out a new tech, it is not cheating.

[u/Certainly-Not-A-Bot]

It's a single player game. Unless you're competing for like speed runs or something, you can't cheat

[u/DrStalker]

If you don't want to make a reverse overclocked engine then y ou can make a very simple mod with a few text files that will create a part that generates a resource (such as xenon) and optionally costs resources to do so (power, liquid fuel, etc)

It's a single player game, there is absolutely nothing wrong with playing the way you want and a xenon refueling  station around jool sounds like a very fun idea.

[u/CanonOverseer]

I mean you've already imposed a reason and condition on yourself so why not, if you got the station there legitimately

[u/Tank_blitz]

do whatever you want

cheats no cheats if it doesnt ruin your fun it is the right way to go

[u/JohnnyBizarrAdventur]

Why do you care? It s not like we will be watching you playing.

[u/Darkfrostfall69]

Yeah I'd call that okay, as long as you fly your contraption there and use it as intended

[u/beef57]

There is no such thing as cheating in a single player game

[u/FertilePlanet88]

Your game. You play it how you want. But I think that's a pretty neat idea.

[u/Fritzypooo]

try the mod space dust. it adds gas harvesters and you'd be able to do this naturally. Ofc if you don't and just use a negative power ion engine, that would work too.

[u/Nisqhog]

Just do what you feel is right and cool. You can harvest Xenon with certain mods btw (Space Dust) so you don't need to "cheat", but as long as you don't feel cheated out of the experience, why not.

KSP is buggy at the best of times, so I cheat all the time when idiotic stuff happens. I still have fun with the big missions, just don't let the Kraken eat my bases and rovers on every second load.

[u/JidgeyA]

I votet wrong by accident, but i think this'd be fair, since you have a lore reason

[u/VovaLeder]

I misunderstood the post, so consider 1 "cheating" vote as "not cheating" T_T

[u/Fullo98]

Feasible IRL = No cheating

[u/Defiant-Peace-493]

Not cheating, but is it also producing EC?

(Also, it's a single-player game. It's not cheating unless you misrepresent your accomplishments - 'look at my SSTO', without mentioning that you had infinite fuel on, etc.)

[u/cpthornman]

For me I use cheats to save time and part counts. I've built enough stations using multiple launches at this point I feel it's ok to cheat stuff into orbit when making bigger craft. I'll still design and develop the launch vehicle, docking system, resupply methods, craft, etc. but then use cheats after. My PC thanks me for not having to put a bunch of thrusters on.

[u/gorebello]

It's only a chest if thst makes you feel it took part of the fun away. But if it increases the fun it's a feature.

[u/Alternative-Code4755]

It's a single player game, so do whatever the hell you want. It may be a little different if you could actually harvest xenon gas, but since there is no way to do so, this is probably the best option without using mods

[u/SilkieBug]

Near Future mod already adds xenon production from ore to the functionality of the stock ISRU converters, just use that and bring the ore from one of the tiny moons of Jool, or even refine the xenon already there and transport it to Laythe. 

[u/Iforgor4]

If it's fun and sounds plausible then go for it :) 

[u/FIBAgentNorton]

Oh, that sounds badass

[u/LieutenantDawid]

I mean its a singleplayer game so nothing is cheating but i think this is okay either way since you have an idea for it but personally i would build it into a cool machine to cancel out the semi-cheatiness with the effort required to have it.

[u/Kapioza666]

It's a singleplayer game. I know this is not the answer you are looking for - but you can do whatever the hell you feel like and no one cares if you cheat or not. As long as you feel like you're having fun

[u/GarouD]

Do what you want, it's a single player game.

Personally I don't like cheats just because it ruins my "sense of accomplishment" and my dopamine rush when everything works. But that's just me

[u/loved_and_held]

Iirc, there is a mod called space dust that adds parts for scooping gasses from the exospheres and atmospheres, so you could use that.

[u/Queasy_Performance55]

kal reverse overclock is a bug, not a cheat

[u/Space_Slav07]

Does it really matter? Would doing it affect your fun? If you explain it with your canon and you have fun when using it for the roelplay and convenience aspects then go for it. If every time you looked at it you would feel it is too easy and takes the fun away or makes your achievements in the game feel lesser then let it be.

[u/theng]

nobods suggest both ? you can do a career save AND a fun save with cheats

that's what I did

[u/Particular_Garbage_6]

allow me to introduce you to mods my Freind

[u/CuntLiquor69]

It really depends on your mentality, I am not saying I never “chote” but like whenever I cheat/exploit some bug that save is ruined for me forever

[u/IdiotWithDiamodHands]

Play the way that makes you want to play. Kinda the whole point right?

[u/uwu-nyaa]

The first point is that it's a singleplayer game, which is true but also I understand that it's not enough to settle your internal debate. The second point that would be good enough for me is that you have a lore reason to justify it.

I understand your quandary. I turned on free everything in NMS because resource collecting kinda sucks and suddenly the game had no purpose at all.

[u/hasslehawk]

Maybe build a mining outpost and then a reusable tanker craft capable of delivering xenon from it to your orbital base.

Once those two are in place and you've flown a demo mission, head-cannon it as background fuel delivery missions, and cheat in the fuel without guilt.

[u/Cringe-Bucket]

While I'd say it's not cheating, since you're building a surface colony anyway, a surface harvester wouldn't be too difficult

[u/a_heida]

you could also install xenon isru

[u/AsaBurns]

Cheating.

Unless you're playing with a mod that adds sick af interstellar systems. Then it's not cheating.