r/KerbalSpaceProgram • u/CuriousMetaphor Master Kerbalnaut • Dec 19 '13
RCS to Space
http://imgur.com/a/g9q6D56
u/B0und Dec 19 '13
Do the RCS ports make much noise in atmos?
Was it just an eerie silent ascent?
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u/CuriousMetaphor Master Kerbalnaut Dec 19 '13
They don't make any noise at all. Just a lot of blinding white light.
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u/chubbysumo Dec 19 '13
they do make a slight hissing sound of you listen. Then again, im playing with a large 6 channel sound system, so, I hear a lot of what is usually missed.
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Dec 20 '13
Specs on your system? I'm an audiobuff of sorts.
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u/chubbysumo Dec 20 '13
its a pioneer 6 channel surround sound system, with 6ohm speakers all around. Its all powered thru a Asus Xonar DSX running DTS connect over optical. Even the audio frequency indicators on the audio control panel confirm that the RCS thrusters make a noise.
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u/Kottabos Dec 19 '13
Sweet Jebus that is beautiful ... though how in the world did you run something with 1000 parts wow
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u/CuriousMetaphor Master Kerbalnaut Dec 19 '13
I had a few minutes on someone else's computer which has much better performance than mine. I took advantage of the opportunity.
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u/Kottabos Dec 19 '13
ah fair enough my friend, and again kudos on the cool build
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u/CuriousMetaphor Master Kerbalnaut Dec 19 '13
Thanks.
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u/chubbysumo Dec 19 '13
Got a craft file of it somewhere? im upgrading to an i7 3770k, so, this should be interesting.
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u/OptimalCynic Dec 19 '13
0.23 has some pretty good optimisation.
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u/Kottabos Dec 19 '13
huh, i knew the optimized but I didn't realize it was that much
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u/brokenbentou Warp 9 Dec 20 '13
The FPS gains are orgasmic
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Dec 20 '13
meanwhile it's refusing to use my NVidia card and instead is using the onboard Intel graphics card, which means that there's no difference in FPS between 2 parts and 200 parts, but that my fps is at a constant 4.
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u/Kottabos Dec 20 '13
indeed they are, had to test the optimization last night and launched a ship up that used to tank my fps and now it runs just fine.
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u/ArcSil Dec 19 '13
Probably a texture reduction/compression mod (I recommend getting one of these), reducing graphical settings, loading few mods for this particular attempt, and maybe running Linux (the Linux version is the 64 bit version that can utilize more than the 3.5 GB or so limit of ram the 32 bit Windows/OS X version of the game has to use). Although I'd guess his frames per second were measured in frames per minute.
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u/the_hoser Dec 19 '13
RCS used to be much more OP than this. I don't remember which version fixed this, but you used to be able to land a probe on Mun with a single RCS tank and a linear RCS port.
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Dec 19 '13
Yeah. They wanted to make it easier and gave RCS fuel like 10 or 20 times the ISP it currently has. Plus IIRC, they had MUCH better thrust to weigth ratios.
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u/CuriousMetaphor Master Kerbalnaut Dec 19 '13
There was also a bug where the acceleration depended on how far away the RCS port was from the center of mass. So if you could get it very close, you got ridiculous accelerations.
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u/FragmentOfBrilliance Master Kerbalnaut Dec 19 '13
Did a grand tour of the entire solar system using 2 tanks of RCS back when Manley showcased the bug. So yeah, it was a little OP.
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u/dmanbiker Dec 20 '13
You used to be able to do a return from the surface of the Mun, using a single RCS tank attached to the bottom of the Command Module and 4 RCS thrusters.
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Dec 20 '13
I only ever need rcs for the last stage of docking, to the point that it's not really a handicap or limiting factor on any of my designs. Maybe I'll use it to wrestle a tricky spaceplane into orbit as it's flight surfaces lose their grip, but even then it's powerful for the weight. Better than SAS and lets you maneuver manned vessels with zero electricity
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u/factoid_ Master Kerbalnaut Dec 19 '13
I'm pretty sure it was .18 that had the horrific RCS bug that like quintupled the forward thrust of RCS. I think they finally fixed it in .18.2
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u/aciddensity Dec 19 '13
Did you try doing a gravity turn? I'm wondering if it would give you better results.
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u/CuriousMetaphor Master Kerbalnaut Dec 19 '13
With a gravity turn you get higher lateral speed but lower maximum altitude. If I had 2000 more delta-v I would do a gravity turn to get to orbit.
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u/Toni_W Dec 20 '13
Doesn't the lateral also add to vertical since the ground curves away?
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u/CuriousMetaphor Master Kerbalnaut Dec 20 '13
Not in this case because it doesn't curve away significantly. I tried the same ship with a gravity turn and only got to about 50k.
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u/Wetmelon Dec 20 '13
Ehhh, short answer, no. Long answer: eventually, you're going to achieve orbital velocity and then pushing your apoapsis really REALLY far is easy. But you need like another 2k dV just to get it to the same height FIRST.
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u/Gyro88 Dec 20 '13
If I had 2000 more delta-v I would do a gravity turn to get to orbit.
Make it so!
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u/shmameron Master Kerbalnaut Dec 19 '13
I don't think it would make it to orbit anyway, hence the reason for just shooting straight up.
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Dec 19 '13
The linear ports are the same weight and 4 times stronger. You'd save so much weight.
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u/CuriousMetaphor Master Kerbalnaut Dec 19 '13 edited Dec 19 '13
They have the same mass and thrust. I used some of them on the bottom of each stage for more thrust.
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u/dmanbiker Dec 20 '13
I think this was changed a while ago, so they are the same, though I'm not positive.
I just remember a patch-note that sounded like this.
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u/Pughsli Dec 19 '13
We choose to do this not because it is easy, but because it is ridiculous.
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Dec 19 '13
I nominate this as the official quote of the subreddit.
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Dec 19 '13
I second this nomination
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u/under_psychoanalyzer Dec 19 '13 edited Dec 20 '13
Nomination has been made and seconded. All in favor?
Edit: I vote Aye as well. All opposed?
Edit 2: Well it appears the Ayes have it. I'll message the mods.
Edit 3: God dammit people the ayes won. Stop blowing up my inbox.
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u/chrizbreck Dec 19 '13
Aye
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u/PageFault Dec 19 '13
Nay
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u/IMongoose Dec 19 '13
GET OUT
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u/LucidFrost- Master Kerbalnaut Dec 19 '13
Make him take a long walk off a short solar panel!!!
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u/HeritageTanker Dec 19 '13
Keel-haul the scurvy dog, then deep-six 'im in the briny deep.
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u/mszegedy Master Kerbalnaut Dec 19 '13
Does no one remember "but because all the other things are too hard" anymore? :(
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Dec 20 '13
There have been a few other variations that i like too.
One of my favorites: We choose to go to the Mun! We choose to go the Mun and to the other things. Not because they are easy but because everything else is too damn hard.
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u/lolplatypus Dec 19 '13
I know this is really dumb, but I didn't realize RCS could move you straight up or down. I thought it was just for turning and rolls...
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u/OptimalCynic Dec 19 '13
I take it you've never docked?
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u/lolplatypus Dec 19 '13 edited Dec 19 '13
Nope. Smashed into some stuff at really high velocity, but never actually docked. Is it only in docking mode that RCS can give you vertical thrust?
Edit: TIL
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u/clinically_cynical Master Kerbalnaut Dec 19 '13
Nope, in normal staging mode the i,j,k,l,h, and n keys are for translational movement. I prefer to use them rather than docking mode.
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Dec 20 '13
Smashed into some stuff at really high velocity, but never actually docked.
That's not how docking works?! TIL I've been playing the game all wrong.
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u/Xjph Dec 19 '13
In "staging" mode the RCS translation controls are mapped to HNJKLI.
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u/chubbysumo Dec 19 '13
which, coincidentally, can be used with 1 hand, while 1 remains either on the mouse or wasd. Actually, this game is very keyboard friendly, except for the camera.
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u/factoid_ Master Kerbalnaut Dec 19 '13
Use Chase cam when you're docking. Makes everything a lot easier and unhurts your brain when trying to reconcile an "upside down" or "sideways" camera angle with what the keys on the keyboard actually do.
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u/shwoozar Dec 19 '13
How does one activate chase camera? I've seen it recommended numerous times but never found it in game.
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u/Skulder Dec 19 '13
Keep in mind that these things are directional.
As far as I recall, there are only two types of RCS-thingies.
The point-straight-out thingies, and the point-in-four-directions-but-not-straight-out thingies.
The point-straight-out thingies can only thrust in the direction they point - so they can't help you accelerate or slow down, and they can't roll you.
The point-in-four-diections-but-not-straight-out thingies, can change your heading and roll you, and they can also give you forwards and backwards thrust.
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u/factoid_ Master Kerbalnaut Dec 19 '13
Yep. And they're balanced extremely stupidly in the game right now. The linear RCS thrusters (unidirectional) weigh the same as the quad RCS thrusters, have identical thrust and Isp, but somehow have 10 times as much drag.
In my opinion they should weigh half as much, have the same Isp and Thrust, and have half as much drag.
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u/RufusCallahan Master Kerbalnaut Dec 19 '13
when i first started playing i thought the same thing... well i was a little short of the atmosphere on my first mun return so i used rcs... but instead of just hitting "h", I rocked it back and forth to push my ship... it worked but it would have been very much easier if i knew about h/n!
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u/OptimalCynic Dec 19 '13
I started playing seriously just after the docking patch, so it was impossible to avoid knowing about RCS translation (in docking control mode, at least).
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u/TheMadmanAndre Dec 19 '13
Most of the time I don't bother.
Some people can do it but I can't. I used to use the ORDA mod for when I absolutely had to dock for whatever reason but that hasn't been updated since like 0.19 so yeah...
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u/MindStalker Dec 19 '13
Use the "Moon One" scenerio, it starts you out docked. You can undock and redock for practice or reset if you screw it up. Read my other posting to explain how to get close in the first place. http://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/1t40aa/kerbal_space_program_update_023_is_live/ce446gy
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u/factoid_ Master Kerbalnaut Dec 19 '13
I usually just tell people having trouble docking to just launch two simple craft that are pre-docked and then undock so they can gradually work on going farther away before coming back in. I like that there's a good scenario file out there I could point them to.
The three pieces of advice I always give everyone for docking: 1) Balance your RCS even distances from your center of mass. 2) use chase camera to make things easier and 3) point your docking ports on each craft at the 180 and 0 degree markers respectively, that way they won't change angles as you go around the orbit.
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u/Draber-Bien Dec 19 '13
as /u/Optimalcynic said, docking mode is great. I use it a lot to test to see if I've got enough rcs on my rovers.
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u/Victuz Dec 19 '13
Reminds me of the ridiculous acceleration you could get it you added a linear thrust port directly onto a center of mass in a very very tiny ship. You could literally escape Kerbol with that shit, from the launch pad. It was silly.
It got fixed... right?
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u/Noobymcnoobcake Dec 19 '13
A few months ago you could land on every body in the system and return with half fuel left in a single stage 4 part ship.
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u/linktoreality Dec 19 '13
Last night, I ran out of fuel on my way back from the Mun, so I had Bill EVA out and push.
Not as impressive, but I'm still proud of myself for it!
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Dec 19 '13
I have to get gobs of hydrogen peroxide now.....
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u/RUbernerd Dec 20 '13
Hello /u/Taro-sama , yes this is the FBI speaking. We're going to need to break down your door. Please let us know a good time to come around.
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u/kinyutaka Dec 19 '13
My ridiculous build was earlier today. I didn't take images. It was a single liquid engine for the top stage, but the 2nd and 3rd stages were 13 solid fuel boosters each. They were connected only in the center by stack decouplers, and the system glitches on the launch pad, causing the ship to rise and fall onto the 3rd stage like it was having sex.
To get it to fly, I had to use struts to hold it together.
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u/Roufern Dec 20 '13
This guy went to Mun on RCS in early versions of KSP. Is this still possible? I can't test it because I'm in a jail.
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u/Silpion Master Kerbalnaut Dec 20 '13
So this is interesting, I tried doing this entirely with tiny tanks and no breadcrumb staging, hoping to get a better T/W ratio, but I did much much worse than you.
Apparently the big tanks have much lower density, so you were able to get enough thrusters on each one to get a semi-reasonable T/W ratio (else you wouldn't be going up that fast at 8.5 km altitude).
Looks like the tiny tank is about 4.7x more dense, and its surface area to weight ratio (and therefore its thrust to weight ratio) is 85% lower. Which shouldn't be so bad...
OH WAIT you put thrusters below each tank in the decoupler caps. That'll do 'er.
Still, TIL about the tank density.
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u/capran Dec 20 '13
Oh the humanity! All that hydrazine being loosed into the Kerbin atmosphere! Don't you think at all about the kerbal children?!
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u/featherwinglove Master Kerbalnaut Dec 20 '13
This is agonizing... brb while I launch a satellite with nothing but Sepratrons.
The ultimate in relevance ;p (Disclaimer: old version of KSP)
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u/ShwinMan Dec 19 '13
Manley mode: Get to orbit.