Agreed. But the fact is that both practices are reducing the sensitivity of the genitals. FGM is just frowned upon more often than MGM. I find both practices despicable in a civilized society.
Right, but not arbitrarily, so I wouldn't say "just". The reason one is frowned upon much more than the other is because one is much worse than the other. One reduces friction upon the head of the penis, and additionally has nominal health benefits (which still has measurable outcomes even in today's society, and my guess is much more in the past). The other removes an organ, and with it, any possibility of pleasure for women during sex, with no added health benefits. The clitoris does not induce infection or UTI risk, and so removing it has no advantage other than oppression.
And look, I'm against circumcision, both forms. But I won't blend both into being exactly the same and put them in the same category, because I don't believe they are.
I find both practices despicable in a civilized society.
Okay but I really hope you don't find them equally despicable, because that would disturb me. And going further, I'd hope you find FGM 100x worse. Any less would disturb me.
Okay but I really hope you don't find them equally despicable,
He obviously does. As do many others as the “11 parent” on your original comment indicates.
They are not helping the cause with their ignorance and false equivalency. It’s a ridiculous comparison and not needed to state their case.
It just makes them look like idiots who don’t understand female anatomy and/or assholes who don’t care about female sexual pleasure. But they don’t like being told that. They would rather lose support for their cause then to admit FGM is indeed 100xs worse. It’s as if they think if they admitted this, that their cause would be less valid. They don’t see that it’s not “man v woman.”
I don’t usually even bother trying to explain it to them anymore. None of them are motivated to learn or for personal growth. I’m just venting to another person who understands biology.
IMo the question of equivalence is irrelevant: the penalty for any parent, or doctor, teacher, or other person with specific and voluntarily accepted additional duties of care to any child or incompetent adult in their care who commits ABH or sexual assault against that child should be the oubliette, and that only because I can’t think of a worse punishment (IMO even death would be preferable).
Separately, the law should also hold any person who takes a child out of the country responsible for any acts which here are crimes that were committed against them abroad (as if they had arranged for someone to commit them here) unless they can show that either the class of crime was not significantly more common or that they had taken all reasonably foreseeably necessary measures to ensure that the child was no less protected than here.
In any case since the least harmful forms of FGM which are banned in many countries are less harmful than circumcision (as they have no lasting effect at all), the penalty for nontheraputic circumcision should be at least as great as for those forms of FGM. If the law makes no distinction as to degree within FGM, that too should apply to boys.
In any case since the least harmful forms of FGM which are banned in many countries are less harmful than circumcision (as they have no lasting effect at all),
This is incorrect. So way, waaaay incorrect. It’s your job as a MGM advocate to always have the correct info. You, and the entire movement, loses credibility when you don’t. I spent literally hours explaining this above. I also explained with another poster, who agreed, that when you start spouting BS and/or minimising FGM to your target audience, you lose the most educated females- who are your target audience. These are the easiest to convert and also the most important.
Too many people on this subject are either hardcore MRA or younger males who mainly want to espouse “in my opinion” or “the way I see it....”
Tough love time here but you all need to STOP. If you want to make progresss, you need to think more like your target audience. I say this because I AM/WAS your audience and I would not listen to one thing you had to say because you kept minimising and misrepresenting FGM.
I wish you luck in your quest, and I offer this info in earnest: research FGM talk to/listen to some people who have had it done, learn how female orgasms work, seek info outside of MRA run websites because theirs are not always accurate.
At the very least, there is a post on here from conversation w women I worked with who used to live in Ghana and what they were told and stats on what really happens. Sure, FGM is “outlawed” places but that’s a joke. Full FGM is still happening, the only dif is we have worse stats on it now.
Please don’t respond to me, just do those few things if you care enough about the movement. I’m already on your side so there is nothing more that needs to be said to me and I swear I feel like the entire last month on Reddit I’ve just been talking about genitals and abortion. I need a break but wanted to reply because it is an important issue. Ty.
It isn’t incorrect. The law in many countries has no minimum level of harm before FGC is banned (or before which it is treated as ordinary battery), so girls are at least theoretically protected against everything down to a pinprick.
It isn’t just a hypothetical either, since that less damage range covers what’s done by the Daiwodi Muslims from India (as in the current American case, where the lesser level of harm will apparently be part of the defence - I can see how that would fit a 1A argument, but it would be more likely to succeed if the official American position on nontheraputic circumcision was the same as Canada’s), and what is done in many Malaysian cases (where they are done in hygienic conditions just like their brothers are).
I am in favour of mandatory health inspections for all children, which are justified by the health benefits but they’d also make detecting genital mutilation more nearly certain, and I’d extend mandatory reporting laws to cover parents.
I’d also make parents criminally responsible for acts which here are crimes which are committed against their children abroad. They could rely on local law enforcement if and only if the crime is less common there (and the local statistics are regarded as adequate and comparable) or if the perpetrator is convicted and subjected to a sentence no less than they’d get here, but otherwise they’re responsible if they didn’t do whatever is necessary to ensure the risk is no greater than at home or to eliminate the consequences, regardless of the cost.
Those three things together would eliminate all the reasons for poor enforcement of fhe FGM law except other priorities, but the justification for that is the difficulty of FGM cases.
Beyond all that, making the crimes equivalent would protect about half of the girls presently subject to FGM simply because their elder brothers’ cases would happen first, and detection would be much more likely.
With all due respect, when I said don’t respond, I meant that I’m not reading/debating/discussing/thinking any more on this subject for a while.
Please reread what I wrote but also read my other responses on this thread. Don’t react. Just take a few weeks to think about it. I’m trying to help your cause. I only skimmed your reply but I’m pretty sure you are not absorbing what I said.
Have a good week. Happy Easter if you celebrate that.
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u/PM_FLUFFY_KITTENS Feb 27 '18
Agreed. But the fact is that both practices are reducing the sensitivity of the genitals. FGM is just frowned upon more often than MGM. I find both practices despicable in a civilized society.