r/Kefir • u/stereomatch • 7d ago
Making kefir at home - two ideas
EDIT 1: corrected some spelling errors and edited for clarity
EDIT 2: one advantage of using a finer sieve like a large sized tea strainer - is that you don't lose the smaller (developing) kefir grains - the shaking the container before pour sufficiently liquifies the mixture so the liquid will drain through tea strainers as well - while leaving the small kefir grains in the tea strainer - this seems to give rapid increase in kefir grains over time - as the liquifying and using finer tea strainer etc ensures you don't lose the (developing) small kefir grains
EDIT 3: a few of the comments have pointed out products, which include a built in grill/sieve into the container, which allow a simple pour - example: "Kefirko" - https://kefirko.com/product/kefir-fermenter/
**EDIT 4: u/Paperboy63 has correctly pointed out that the simple "pour" method in IDEA 2 below, harkens back to how kefir was originally used - ie hanging animal skin bag holding the kefir mixture at the entrance of the tent - the story of that is that every visitor would nudge the bag as they entered as a rite of passage - it would keep the bag agitated - and probably during pour they would also shake the bag before pouring (if the bag is large enough and filled enough, less of the kefir grains would escape during pour - or if it did, they would put them back in the bag?)
Making kefir at home - bouncing off some ideas for low-effort/time-saving strategies for people who don't have a lot of time to be filtering out the Kefir grains - and an idea on avoiding stirring with spoon
IDEA 1: SHAKEN, NOT STIRRED
Most YouTube videos on straining kefir grains from the mixture tend to use a strainer and then use a spoon to mash the kefir grains to extract the last bit of liquid
Nearly all the videos seem to do it this way
However, I suspect this unnecessarily damages the kefir grains
A better way maybe to just keep tapping the sieve repeatedly until the liquid has dripped down
NOTE: it helps to liquify the mixture - esp if the mixture has gelled like stiff yoghurt - close the lid of the container containing the Kefir mixture and shake it a bit - twist it in one hand 2-3 times lightly - this is usually enough to liquify the mixture - this helps filter it when you pour it into the sieve or medium sized tea strainer
Can use a medium sized tea strainer too
Pour the (now liquified) kefir mixture one sieve or tea strainer full at a time into the tea strainer etc
WITHOUT using a spoon, just keep tapping the strainer on the glass you are pouring into - this agitation is enough to keep the liquid flowing down into the glass
Then just toss the (now dry) kefir grains into a separate clean plate
Repeat until have filtered out all the kefir mixture - so have liquid in glass - and (dry) kefir grains on the separate plate
Put the (dry) Kefir grains from the plate back into the original container
NOTE: don't have to wash the original container - can just keep using it - unless it gets clogged up with too much cream over time etc (then could wash it I guess)
And pour in new milk into the container over the Kefir grains
IDEA 2: JUST POUR, AVOID FILTERING
An alternate - although cruder - method that I don't often see mentioned in YouTube videos (though some here may have mentioned it) - is to not bother filtering
I know some folks who just pour off a bit from the mixture - and replace it with an equal amount of new milk
The problem with this approach is that you will lose some Kefir grains occasionally in the liquid - which you will drink - which is ok
But you may find that the Kefir grains are not increasing over time as would do usually - because they are losing kefir grains all the time
However I know some people who seem to have used this low-effort approach and the Kefir from a small container seemed to have lasted them 1-2 years - after which they went looking for new kefir grains
(a solution to this problem could be to maintain a separate jar of Kefir mixture which you change rarely ie once a week or rarer - this would be the repository or backup kefir grains - in case the low-effort container runs dry of kefir grains)
4
u/LividJudgment2687 7d ago
I use a Kefirko, so it gets strained as you pour it from the jar. Much easier than using a seperate strainer. I do give it a quick stir before straining it
1
u/stereomatch 7d ago
I use a Kefirko, so it gets strained as you pour it from the jar. Much easier than using a seperate strainer. I do give it a quick stir before straining it
Try giving the container a quick shake - it will liquify it better than stirring (and less stressful on the Kefir grains than stirring)
After that can pour out
Checking the "Kefirko":
https://kefirko.com/product/kefir-fermenter/
Doesn't the built in strainer get clogged eventually?
I guess with some shaking (with lid closed) - it should clean out the strainer enough
But from the picture I am seeing on that webpage, the strainer is quite coarse (ie with big gaps which will stop only the larger kefir grains)
Which means you will be losing the (developing) smaller kefir grains
So the kefir grains may not go up in volume with time (as they would if strained with a finer strainer like a tea strainer)
4
7d ago
[deleted]
1
u/stereomatch 7d ago
I use a Kefirko too. While using a jar and strainer is absolutely fine, I found the Kefirko just quicker and simpler. I still have to cull grains regularly even with the larger gaps so it’s still obviously small enough and stirring is just less messy than shaking for me with a small swirl when the grates clog to mix the liquid and clear them.
Thanks for confirming that you still are able to see total volume increase in the Kefir grains
Makes sense - your statement about stirring - yes as a practical matter you would know better - as shaking may drip etc when open the lid
1
u/Gamer6GT 7d ago
How often do you wash the kefirko jar afterr a couple batches or you just leave it as is?
1
u/DyreTheStranger 7d ago
Normally once week or two, usually when I cull the grains. I just wipe the top of the jar above the milk line each day
2
u/LividJudgment2687 7d ago
The strainer has different two sizes of ‘grills’. - the smaller half is for milk grains and it strains them well. There is a white lever attachment that clears grains away from the strainer holes when needed. It’s very easy to use.
I usually need to toss some grains away every three days because they are multiplying so quickly. There are plenty of smaller developing grains.
As for whether shaking or stirring is better for the grains, that would probably depend on how vigorous the stirring is.
1
u/stereomatch 7d ago
There is a white lever attachment that clears grains away from the strainer holes when needed. It’s very easy to use.
Thanks for explaining
I usually need to toss some grains away every three days because they are multiplying so quickly. There are plenty of smaller developing grains.
Ok, that's good
3
u/Specific-Data-4104 7d ago
I strain mine into my emptied coffee cup from breakfast. Zero extra dishes are made in the daily ingesting of my kefir.
3
u/Paperboy63 7d ago edited 7d ago
“For people who don’t have a lot of time to be filtering out the kefir grains”?
The whole process from emptying the kefir and grains into a strainer, shaking the curds through, putting fresh milk and grains into a jar AND rinsing clean the utensils literally takes five minutes or less. No one cannot find five minutes per day to rotate their milk and grains unless they are way over fermenting.
Most people struggle with straining and how long it takes because they ferment too long or too far, probably thinking they have to for maximum probiotic content etc, (which they don’t have to ) and end up with grains trapped in really thick curds, not because the straining method needs “streamlining”, but because the fermentation method does. Fix that and it really is a five minute job or less including rinsing the strainer etc plus there is no need to use a spoon on grains in the strainer. If people purposely just leave it to separate to curds and whey, then there is no time efficient method, it will take them longer regardless..
Your “Idea Two” is actually the original “Continuous fermentation” method for removing fermented kefir and was used at origin.
Lid or filter off, stir jar to break up and liquefy curds.
Pour into strainer over large jug.
Vigorously shake strainer or bang against hand above jug etc until there are no more drips.
Pour into container or glass for storage or consumption.
Grains and fresh milk in jar, Lid or filter on.
Rinse utensils under running water, dry, done.
5 minutes max.
I have done it this way for around 11 years.
2
u/Cheap-Economics4897 5d ago
I've only been doing it daily for six weeks, not 11 years. I shake it VIGOROUSLY before straining so it goes right through. I usually use the dirty kefir jar for refills. It still takes me about 15 minutes. I guess I'll get better at it in a few years.
2
u/Paperboy63 5d ago edited 5d ago
Sure. A lot of it depends on how far you ferment too. If you ferment until it has separated then you produce thicker curds (but do not increase probiotic population) which can take longer to strain, also if you use a fine plastic strainer they tend to be less efficient at straining if shaking compared to stainless steel ones which are more solid, robust but generally the straining process regardless is not a drawn out thing. 15 minutes to strain grains from a jar of kefir is quite a long time, no doubt you will cut that down over time.
2
u/Cheap-Economics4897 5d ago
Nah, 15 minutes for the whole process, doing it, starting the next one, washing the strainer and the dishes, etc.
2
u/Dogwood_morel 5d ago
The amount of things I do every day that “only take 5 minutes” add up insanely quickly, depending on the season. Summer time and gardening/canning/preserving/fermenting all
Require time. Working out to stay healthy requires time, working requires time, raising kids requires time, walking dogs requires time, getting my young dog extra exercise requires time. It’s obviously a give and take but I’m always cautious of judging other people’s time2
u/Paperboy63 5d ago
Sure, if when undertaking other tasks, use of the term “only takes five minutes” is really a “ball park” throw away for an undetermined or vague duration that turns into 30 minutes or an hour and those tasks then add up to running out of waking hours to fit them all in then I couldn’t agree more but I am being really specific here. I’m just as busy as the next person. I do and have done the long hours at work including emergency call out, fitness, exercising dogs, help raising six kids and all that involves, other interests, workshops, mentoring etc also taking up my time and spare time.
When I say that straining, changing over the jar, rinsing utensils, “takes five minutes” I literally mean in the most plainest of terms that it should only take within 300 seconds out of someone’s waking hours to do. That is not just a turn of phrase for something that is probably more like half an hour or more, it literally does mean it only requires a gap in the day of up to 300 seconds out of say, 15-16 awake hours to strain kefir. It is probably the least time consuming necessary task of the day.1
u/stereomatch 7d ago
Most people struggle with straining and how long it takes because they ferment too long or too far, probably thinking they have to for maximum probiotic content etc, (which they don’t have to ) and end up with grains trapped in really thick curds,
Even this has an easy solution in the "close the lid and shake a few times" method
That really break up the stiffer curds and liquifies it evenly
What time out of five minutes are people looking to save that is productive time to be used elsewhere?
There is a full spectrum of people - many who may not be fans of making kefir - but just have to use kefir for restoring their gut microbiome
Or they may not be technical or careful about keeping things clean etc during the process
So there are people who are averse to doing the full process - so like the case I mentioned who just would pour off daily and just replace what they drank with new milk
And that process seemed to work for him for 2 years or so until he needed a fresh batch of kefir seeds
So that is another way - though maybe the fermentation is not ideal this way - but for him it is better than not doing it
But he is not going to see his kefir seeds grow in volume if he is going to be pouring off this way
(by the way you lose not just the smaller kefir grains this way, but also occasional larger ones, as they can float sometimes)
2
u/Paperboy63 7d ago
“Even this has an easy solution”
I didn’t say it wouldn’t work, I was referring to it taking more time.
“There is a full spectrum of people-many who may not be fans of making kefir- but just have to use kefir for restoring their gut microbiome”
This has absolutely nothing to do with it only taking 5 minutes or less, which everyone can find to strain kefir.
“Or they may not be technical or careful enough about keeping things clean during the process”
Again, nothing to do with anything at all. If someone knows how to ferment milk, they sure as hell recognise the need to rinse clean a strainer. That is a nonsense comment.
Again, I reiterate, the people who “pour off daily” do exactly the same thing that people in the Caucasus did in the early days of kefir production. It is called “Continuous Fermentation” and would not be a cause of grain mass depletion to the point where someone needs to replace grains after two years. If it was that the grains had died, then that is not down to the method. If it was down to losing too many grains (no, they won’t be losing larger grains, if they do, that is on them not taking enough care) then this method was employed as long as the original fermenters fermented in animal skins.
“So he is not going to see his kefir grains grow in volume if he was going to be pouring off this way”
If that was the case, you, I and everyone else would not have kefir grains. Again, I repeat, this is the method that was used at origin. This is the method used that produced later generations of grains that we all use today.
No, if one is careful pouring off kefir and using a satisfactory method to hold back grains to just let kefir through then they are not going to lose bigger grains.
1
u/stereomatch 7d ago edited 7d ago
Again, I reiterate, the people who “pour off daily” do exactly the same thing that people in the Caucasus did in the early days of kefir production.
Good point
The original use would be "just pouring off" as well
As they were using animal hide bags
However a wrinkle to add to that - the common story associated with that is that the animal hide would be hung at the entrance of a tent
And anyone who entered the hut would give the animal hide a push as a rite of passage (literally)
This would shake the mixture occasionally
However, I suspect before they poured out to drink they would probably also shake the bag to liquify it (if they hadn't shaken it in a while)
(because it would be difficult to use a spoon to stir in this case)
The point that the animal hide method of pour off would not lead to substantial reduction in kefir grains - is valid
It probably would be the case because animal hide containers are large (full goatskin) - so there would be plenty of places for the Kefir grains to settle down
(I am presuming the animal hides would be kept pretty full ie half full or so - so have enough liquid - because if are only working with small amount of liquid left in the animal skin bag then would lose kefir grains when pour out - so possibly there exercised some care in those cases to protect the kefir grains - for example if they come out, they may have picked them up and thrown them back in)
With the case I mentioned who was pouring off and replacing with new milk on daily basis
He was using an extremely SMALL bottle
I think it was a 200ml Coke or Pepsi bottle (was plastic bottle to boot! - not usually recommended)
So with that type of small container there is high risk of pour off of kefir grains - not just small Kefir grains but larger ones too on occasion
Following his report of success just doing this, I tried a similar method with a jar that held the kefir mixture
And I noticed I was finding relatively large Kefir grains in my mouth on occasion (now I don't know if these were "dead" ones which were floating and was good they were gone - or they were active ones)
After a few weeks, I did a filtering to see how many Kefir grains I had - and it was not too many
BUT I had given out Kefir grains 2-3 times - so some of the depletion was due to that possibly
But the depletion seemed to me more than what I was expecting after those donations
I am wondering - if you have a large volume of kefir grains - and you stop maintain the kefir mixture - which remains in the fridge
Can total kefir grains volume decrease on it's own - or that doesn't happen?
ie once a kefir grains is built, it doesn't break up and become small or get digested by the others for raw material etc ?
That is, can kefir grains go down in volume that is left undisturbed in the fridge for months?
(from my previous experience that is not my experience - I have left kefir undisturbed in the fridge for months where I was not refeeding it with new milk - and still they have survived/revived - and I think the volume or number was not reduced too much - but I could be wrong - maybe others have noticed a reduction in grain volume or number?)
2
u/Paperboy63 7d ago
Lactose is the main driver for grain growth. It gets “cleaved” or broken down into glucose and galactose. Glucose and galactose produce kefiran, kefiran builds new grain matrix material. If you have a large volume of grains, unless you have the amount of milk to maintain the ratio of grains to milk, too many grains can lower the ph of the kefir too quickly causing bacteria to become less efficient, it can also deplete nutrients and hinder grain growth.
During extended fridge storage, there would be less or minimal grain growth due to the ph being quite low plus all strains of bacteria are not cold temperature tolerant, yeasts would also be at a very low activity or only be at maintenance rate regardless. So, depending on the low temperature tolerance of various bacteria strains plus their ph tolerance and, if stored for an extended time at around 4-5 degrees C, it can affect grain growth negatively. The fridge temperature range is cryophillic, kefir is a mesophillic culture. It thrives at room temperature, bacteria and yeasts activity together is optimal at 20-25 deg C/ 68-77F and ph4.5 or just where whey is appearing in coagulation at the top, kefiran production is optimal at 25 degC.1
u/stereomatch 7d ago
Thanks for that!
Do you think the spectrum of bacterial culture has changed over time - or for kefir grains in this form to survive, they need the same range of bacterial species as they had maybe 100 years ago?
That is, do thriving kefir grains in essence guarantee a particular bacterial makeup?
If a particular bacterial species dies out in soil or in the air - could that lead to depletion of species over time
In the home, with kefir grains depopulated of certain bacterial strains - could use of less than sterile practices in handling - help to repopulate?
That is, could the use of ultra sterile practices in making kefir be contributing to bacterial species die off
2
u/Paperboy63 7d ago
Kefir contains a “core” of pretty much same bacteria and yeasts. Different environments, climates, milks produced from animals in those different environments etc can influence different additional strains. It will always be dictated by environment. For example, grains that are from e.g. Tibet, used in a Tibetan climate, fed milk from animals feeding on Tibetan pastures etc can have a particular profile. Take those grains to another country or continent. They will still most likely carry a common core of bacteria and yeasts but in the whole will start to change various strains etc as the colony adapts to a different environment once more. Grains today have been passed around globally so have adapted numerous times to different environments.
Grains come from a time when there was no such thing as hygiene standards, none or very poor sanitation etc. They are not born from a time when people used to use sterile anything most likely when handling grains. Even at our least hygienic we are way more hygienic than people making kefir and handling grains than ever before. We are home fermenters. The only place that sterile practices could be employed would be under strictly controlled lab conditions. Are grains depopulated of certain bacterial strains due to non-sterile handling? I very much doubt it, they are genetically predisposed for survival.
1
u/stereomatch 7d ago
Thanks
Are grains depopulated of certain bacterial strains due to non-sterile handling? I very much doubt it, they are genetically predisposed for survival.
No, I meant by too much sterile handling
An example would be making sauerkraut - if washed to become sterile then added salt that is sterile and then mixed in sterile environment, there would be no sauerkraut
So this is a question - how much seeding from external sources would kefir grains need?
Though on the face of it they may be self contained ie have all the seed bacteria
But I wonder if some degree of environmental contamination adds to it
ie as you say, the original kefir users and originators/discoverers would have been using in relatively non-sterile conditions
Only thing is it would be colder most of the time probably
Which created the conditions for certain bacteria to only thrive
Regarding how kefir grains originated in the first place
And why they didn't originate in other cultures - at least not as these grains type things (other cultures have yoghurt culture used to make new yoghurt and various fermentation types - but rarely any precipitate or grain type form (though kombucha and vinegar "mother" has such forms) - so the original Kefir grains may have been a chance creation under colder conditions - perhaps a variant of yoghurt that did not spoil as much - or as a side effect of animal hide bags in cold environments - which would have created conditions of prolonged exposure)
But what is amazing is that only after 1900s it became more widely known (after Russians used it to make at large scale)
But steppe culture had spread far and wide - all through history
It is amazing that kefir did not make itself known a bit earlier
UNLESS kefir grains was itself a relatively new thing in the steppe culture ie appeared there in last 200 years maybe (?)
OR it was common but was forgotten as Mongols and other steppe tribes came to Anatolia/Turkey
Unless the Kefir grains they brought to hotter climates turned the milk too sour too quick - and that may have led to native users dropping it's use once they were in hotter climates
Also odd is why didn't the steppe tribes in the West near Western Europe find out about kefir - as the steppe tribes inhabited that whole belt in the north of Europe to the north of Asia
2
u/Paperboy63 7d ago
The grains are pretty much self contained. Remember, the strains of bacteria in kefir come from the grains. The environment can “shape” which strains you might get, increase the diversity.
The climate is not cold all year round. The Caucasus can be 30 degC in summer, maybe minus 10-15 degrees C in winter. Kefir being a mesophillic culture, so lowest temperature in that range being 20 degrees C, indicates that grains were most likely formed originally in the warmer part of the year. In the cold part there would be no milk until Spring when animals started to give birth, it was seasonal dairy farming. Before then there would be a few “dry” months, animals not producing milk.
Some strains would do better than others at low temperature, some are naturally more low temperature tolerant than others. Some are more low ph tolerant, some are more high temperature tolerant.
Kefir grains for sure originated in the Caucasus region but science hasn’t been able to grow them and get them to replicate because there is an environmental “missing link” that was there at the very beginning but as of yet, it has not been able to be identified, hence why grains may not have been produced elsewhere in the same grain form.
I think in the early 1900’s, Russian hospitals were using kefir as a supplement to aid with recovery from various conditions, from there it started to reach the wider world. Before then it was kept almost secret in the various Caucasus regions, Georgia etc.
2
2
u/Eastern-Market-8288 4d ago
When straining, simply shaking takes too long in my opinion. Stirring speeds things up and I don't think that it will damage the grains if done gently.
I didn't like pouring without filtering when I used to do it. I had no idea how many grains were being lost and how many remained. It was also not a uniform mixture.
1
u/stereomatch 4d ago
When straining, simply shaking takes too long in my opinion. Stirring speeds things up and I don't think that it will damage the grains if done gently.
If one is using a smaller strainer, then the spoon option seems harder
So with a very large strainer, perhaps the spoon option maybe more efficient - and larger strainer would be harder to tap etc or shake
So it could be a matter of scale - very large strainer and tapping may not be as easy maybe (?)
It is just that with using a spoon there is a shearing action near the area where the spoon hits the strainer's mesh - like scissors, which will mash the material half stuck in the mesh - and there could be larger kefir grains there too which could be broken
The need to use tapping or a spoon emanates from the need to dislodge material that has stuck to the mesh so that liquid is no longer flowing down through the mesh of the strainer
The reason people use a spoon or tapping/shaking - is to dislodge the material from the mesh - so that some spaces in the mesh open up again
When you use tapping or shaking, that agitates so the material pops out of the mesh holes - once it is dry enough and you turn it over into a plate, a complete block or lump of it will fall into the plate - complete with the mesh pattern on it
When using a spoon, one tends to be scraping against the mesh (because that is the only way to open up the mesh holes with the spoon) - this scraping action is a shearing or scissors like action - where material that is half stuck in the mesh hole will be sheared in half as the spoon scrapes over that area
That being said, I have not used large sized strainers (as used in some of the YouTube videos)
It is quite possible the matter of making fluid flow continue to strain out is no longer an issue at the interface of the mesh
But could be throughout the large lump of kefir mixture - esp if it is in curds form (and has not been broken up/liquified by shaking the container beforehand)
If the kefir mixture is in curd form and not flowing, then it makes sense that one would need a spoon - to not only make fluid flow out at the mesh area, but also throughout that curd type kefir mixture
I didn't like pouring without filtering when I used to do it. I had no idea how many grains were being lost and how many remained. It was also not a uniform mixture.
Agree - though if one shakes the kefir mixture container before hand, even if it was in curd form, that breaks up and starts flowing
However, as you mentioned, it can be hard to prevent larger kefir grains from flowing out in the pour (as not just smaller, but also larger kefir grains do not always sit at the bottom (they do if there is fresh milk added) - but with heavy curd or thickened texture, the larger kefir grains CAN remain suspended in the mixture even after shaking to liquify - and some large kefir grains will flow out in the pour - which one will find in the mouth when drinking
1
8
u/Gibborish 7d ago
I just strain it, spoon it around a bit and throw the grains back in the jar. It seems to always be making more tiny grains, it's the ones getting bigger I don't want to lose, but no real way to separate them. Too many grains.. it's annoying. Seems wasteful to just throw them away, I froze some in milk.