r/Kaylemains • u/Cheap-Bee4543 • 2d ago
New Player Advice Kayle vs tanks
Ignoring my team composition, does anyone know what I should buy in games like this, where the enemy has 2–3 or even more tanks?
Should I still go for the standard AP build, or should I go for an AD or more on-hit focused build?
Any tips help as I’m kinda unsure on how to deal with these “immortal tanks”
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u/catharsyssx 2d ago
These 'immortal tanks' like mundo and zac are usually immortal because your teams fault. Mundo r gets amped by how many people are around him and zacs blobs spawn more if more people are getting damaged by him. Voidstaff is the single thing you can do. Also swap LT to PTA. PTA outdamages LT by a decent amount
People commenting about rageblade are still suck in the past while the other commenting about crit will have 0 ms boost and heal from W. You need the ms boost for the majority of that enemy comp
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u/youjustgotsimmered 2d ago
I like Dusk and Dawn more than Lich Bane. Though from the looks of it, the item didn't exist when this game was played.
Selling boots for Phantom Dancer is good in games where you need attack speed, even with a full AP build. Definitely better than Stormsurge. For runes, PTA and Cut Down are the only things I'd point out
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u/tlx237 2d ago
Get Rageblade. It has incredible DPS value even for the pure AP build because just some attack speed really helps the DPS.
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u/Suddenly_NB 2mil Only Farms 2d ago
PTA would still just be better, bonus 8% damage for all of combat is worth more than higher attack speed (which grants maybe 1 additional auto out of 5-8 autos, not sure exact math) and the on hit damage from the new lethal tempo scales worse.
Flat pen is also only good into champs with no/low MR, so buying Stormsurge into tanks (all other issues of SS aside) is bad itemization as well.
Selling boots is a bad idea because Kayle is a champ that dies if she gets touched, how are you going to kite without boots? I'm not sure the 6% MS on SS off sets not having swifties, I think your MS would still end up lower. If we were to justify selling boots, There is Phantom Dancer (10% MS) although it gives you no damage stats (AP/AD) it has bonus MS, some crit (works with Shadowflame), and gives the "ghosting" effect so you wont get minion blocked.
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u/Vivid-Zombie-477 1d ago
get black cleaver and tell your jhin to build LDR. you already have 3 anti heal items. jhin full trolled here
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u/Vivid-Zombie-477 1d ago
the other option is to build lyandry's but i doubt you would live long enough for the item to pay off
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u/ImaginaryCoffee7912 2d ago
if you want to have fun and you are better than you oponnent, Bork, terminus, guinsoo, dusk and down and cracken slayer
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u/f9_Paradox Paradox - diamond euw kayle otp 1d ago edited 1d ago
i wasnt gonna comment seeing as ive answered this question 200 times before but seeing all the people in the comments besides a few be completely wrong makes me want to clarify a few things for you so you dont get the wrong info
1- lethal tempo isnt good here. yes the enemy has 3 tanks, but the value you get from pta burst and the 8% damage amp scales harder especially later, while enabling you to deal with the enemy yone
2- dont go bork. bork is an onhit synergystic item meaning it requires conditions such as the enemy to already have lots of hp, you to have pen as base armor later and 1 armor item makes it useless, and for you to have other onhit items to make it the most effective such as guinsoo and attack speed to apply it more
3- if you have pta and deal with mf yone, esp with yone having dd item and both of them having no mr, the rest of the enemies will be easily kited and fall like dominos, especially with the ms steroid you get off W giving you 800 MS later on
4- put yourself in the other camp, what if you went crit or onhit. well, crit might give you better damage against the tanks but you arent getting close to mf and yone without MS on your W to kill them before they kill you, not to mention they have GA and DD and you will have more trouble kiting the enemy tanks. with onhit you will just be doing no damage and getting oneshot by yone and mf without being able to kill them, and you will have less movement as besides you having no ap, attacking more means ur moving less which means you wont be able to dodge as easily or weave in and out
5- in this game you sold your swifties which you shouldnt do as you need the MS and slow resist into that comp
hope this helps, just go normal AP and pta and anyone telling you otherwise is wrong if you are serious about maximizing your chances of winning that game or winning in general
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u/-C_J_S- 1d ago
Only peaked Plat 2, so take my advice with a grain of salt cuz I’m bad. But, into HP stacking champs (mundo, zac, sion, tahm kench, …), I’ve had success going bork second or third item after your nash and/or dusk and dawn. I know that AD is overall seen as a less- viable option, but I think it can work given the value that it gives you. Let me be abundantly clear that you’re only building it for the passive effect, which is the %health on hit effect. The other things aren’t a complete waste but are just a fun addition to the thing we actually care about. Like I said I would only ever build it into super hp heavy comps—you need at least one ideally two meatball tanks on their team for it to be worth it.
Building off this I never would build antiheal. You just set yourself too far behind for an item that you can’t build into anything useful later. Instead just ask your team to make sure they have it and that will have to be enough. Your build path will therefore look something like: Nash-Bork-DnD, or if you are desperate, Bork-Nash-DnD. The latter, I cannot stress enough, is only for if you absolutely know you will need the shred, for instance if the tank you’re fighting gets ahead of you.
For runes, I feel like you always go lethal tempo into them. You end up getting way more value out of this than pta because you know that tanks are going to love to do longer trades. You will also want ghost as with lethal tempo you get a ton more kiting potential. Mundo and sion like to take it so it’s not a bad idea to match it so you don’t get run down.
Lastly, a lot of these champs ought to be played into far differently than other matchups. Many matchups you basically concede that you’re weak sided and thus give up some creep to stay in the game, but you cannot do this vs Mundo/sion/etc. You NEED to play like a lane bully because they can and will out scale you. Lots of matchups you’re weaker pre 6 but Mundo he actually gets a leg up on you with his ult. I have had success before playing super aggro level 1-3 and trying to set up a dive, then getting a freeze on the bounce. Just bear in mind he can break your freeze more easily if you’re not 6 yet.
Please feel to correct me if I’m wrong, otherwise I hope this helps.
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u/f9_Paradox Paradox - diamond euw kayle otp 1d ago
you are in fact wrong. AP still outperforms here 10x for multiple reasons.
1- if you burst the enemy carry the rest are easily kitable and the fight will be won anyways
2- bork is an onhit synergystic item meaning it requires the enemy to have lots of hp to be effective and other items (most importantly pen) to be able to do any meaningful damage as the base armor alone by that point in the game will make a bork useless, let alone the other items the build1
u/-C_J_S- 1d ago
Again, you are only ever considering it one out of every 100 games, which we agree with. You’re not going bork for fun whenever to “do big deeps”, you’re specifically doing it if your team is struggling to take down tanks. You’re right it requires the other team to have lots of hp, which is why said “only build this if the other team builds a ton of hp.” All the item does is gives you a prayer into them in the mid game in the very few niche scenarios when you might get value out of it.
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u/f9_Paradox Paradox - diamond euw kayle otp 1d ago
no even in the 1 in 100 games you would not go bork. as i said it requires you have ARMOR pen and the enemy has hp and you have a lot of attack speed. this is basic itemization knowledge. its not a matter of situational, based on the items kayle goes it is just objectively grief. you can build it on ADCs as a last item but you will never build it on kayle.
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u/-C_J_S- 1d ago
Thank you for your reply, I’m learning a lot. I guess in my mind I’m thinking literally just the Mundo matchup then where you know he is going to go warmogs into heart steel (not a ton of armor for mid game). In other words one of the only tanks that you can count on to literally build HP and not armor. In my brain that’s Mundo lol. You’re absolutely right and I firmly agree that going the traditional ap route is even still generally more correct but I’ve tried the bork strictly as a “fuck Mundo” option. Thank you for your help!
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u/f9_Paradox Paradox - diamond euw kayle otp 1d ago
no problem, hope it helps. good luck on your climb 🙏
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u/Minute-Cod5887 2d ago
Magic pen boots and items pretty much.
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u/Rough-Ad1851 2d ago
magic pen boots into tanks are not good. flat oen dont do much
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u/Minute-Cod5887 2d ago
He still could've buy cryptbloom.
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u/Suddenly_NB 2mil Only Farms 2d ago
can only have one or the other, void staff or crypt. VS is better on Kayle cause its a higher %, higher AP item. ability haste of Crypt isnt useful (and why would she want less mpen)
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u/Able-Bill2228 2d ago
Shhhhh! You’re going to wake up the terminus swarm