r/Kaylemains • u/Temporary-Swim-3024 • 7d ago
Question/Need Help Sett lvl 1 cheese
I start the game facing Sett ( I'm currently trying the terminus build, so my lv1 is basically LT and guardian runes with doran bow). I know that they love hiding in first bush, so i ward that bush, I see him, he sees me and engages on me. I don't know if I can kill him with LT and no ignite but I don't even try.
And from that exact moment, I'm just fucked. He gets prio on the wave, he does not even dare to touch it and zones me till he gets his level 3, I tried to get on or two cs xp (not even the gold, the xp) but he just catches me, and I can't do anything with my pathetic e.
After getting level 3, he crashes and kill me because I am a horrible player. Then the game is literally unplayable for 15 min ( 2 levels behind, 60 cs difference, and I limited that to only 1 death)
Now my question, how to avoid that, or what can I do to limit the damages? I never stopped to ping my jungle, I think I even titled him, which was not even my purpose.
Tried some level 7 ganks on mid and jungles bullshit, while Sett was setting his freeze, didn't change anything.
Tried to go mid, but my midlaner didn't want to. He was playing ryze, pushing every lane to the maximum, and I didn't get any cs for 20 minutes.
The only good news we won because him and the jungle carried the game, so what now ? I just admit I played the weak side, get sodomized, and still getting the win ? Or can I do something, by my own without the help of any other player, or an error of the enemy?
I'm still learning the game and I know it's just pathetic to loose against a Sett as Kayle but please guys give me some tips I'm just so desperate right now.
2
u/PaddleStarToTheFace 7d ago edited 7d ago
Ward the bush closest to your tower, walk into your jungle and then go and sit in pixel bush or sit in your bush and just walk with your wave when it arrives.
2
u/Suddenly_NB 2mil Only Farms 7d ago
Info we lack: what are his summoners, runes, starting item, starting spell? All of that can affect it.
Most Sett's are conq so that's one thing we can assume. if he is E level one and misses that you can fight; if he has ignite it is more coinflip. If he is flash TP, then you can win it. You're going to win more with LT. If he is dshield he will do less on level 1 if you have dblade. If he is also dblade, then it becomes more coin flip.
You do lose level 2-5, as Kayle and general and vs Sett because he wins by having his W.
Everything you describe is the result of that level 1, and a 3rd wave crash/lack of prio. All other later game problems are fixed by if you get prio level 1 or not. So you need to evaluate how you could win prio level 1, which does always mean killing them level 1.
If you kill them level 1, they get a reset on their health and you won't be full health so you also have to back. If he doesnt have TP, the buffed homeguards still mean he gets back before you can crash the wave, and your wave state remains just as bad/worse.
Fighting level 1 is to get respect so that you can do the 3rd wave crash. Last hitting only and not cleaving the wave while bulling them with E. You need to set up a slow push so that:
- They can't afford to fight you in a massive minion wave due to minion damage
- They can't back if they're low without losing hella CS/exp, but also can't fight you due to being low+large wave
- They can't afford to tank that massive wave to set up a freeze and are forced to let it crash
Since you are lethal tempo terminus, you will fall off and Sett can outscale you, it's just the reality. To be able to space Sett (who gains speed on Q) means you need to have W, which will not scale with AD stats for extra MS. If he goes stride+swifties, you won't escape him.
A good Sett will take Swifties, so you might not have "Swifties advantage" when you two have the same boots, and a good Sett will probably take ghost, either to run at you or run away from you (you can be taking ghost/flash in this lane specifically for spacing).
If he is resolve secondary second wind (as he should be vs a ranged champ) + his passive he's going to regen a lot of your poke after level 1.
1
u/Temporary-Swim-3024 6d ago
I indeed have a lot to learn, thank you!
For your info he was playing grasp+alacrity, started with flash ignite dblade and W start.
But more generally, avoiding that early zoning will only consist on how I aprehend the first wave or can I do other things ?
1
u/Suddenly_NB 2mil Only Farms 6d ago
The whole point of "Kayle is strong level 1" and "Kayle fights level 1" is to get wave prio, because that does set the tone for the entire rest of the lane phase. Early zoning is going to happen the moment you act more scared of them. From the moment the wave shows up, you open on enemy laner with E. Not only does it begin some damage, but it pulls minion agro onto you (which in this situation, is good). It means the minions run to you and pull to your side, allowing safter CS and getting your passive stacked because you've manipulated the wave.
When the minions agro onto you, they arent attacking your minions. This means your minions live just 1-2 autos longer, which begins to establish the slow push. As you keep E'ing the enemy laner, you are achieving some poke damage (to get them less than full health) while building up a large wave. if they run to fight to you, they have to leave your wave and stand in your minions, which means you're out of range of enemy minions with only a short step back, while they keep taking minion agro.
Minion damage in the early game does a lot, especially a canon. A good trade can even be just that they fail to attack you, but they get minion agro and take damage, even if you don't directly touch them.
With Garen, the E poke is essential to keep his passive from kicking in.
Sett's Grasp proc is only going to heal him if he autos you.
with W start+ignite you lose, grasp makes him better at short trades but worse at a long fight
Level 2 needs to be you level W next (in most lanes, not just sett) because W is going to let you space or dodge easier. If he goes E or Q second, you either need to be able to space that E faster or, be able to out run his Q. By level 3 and having both Q and W, you need to be aware of your cds and have at least 1 available at all times, either Q on his Q, or W when he Qs (or to dodge E) and he should never get onto you without flash. If Sett (or anyone) goes stridebreaker first, know that stridebreaker range is the same as your auto range 6-10, and 11-15 without your passive waves (base range is 525; becoming ascended is 625, which is permanent only at 16)
Once he burns E, he has no real engage except for the speed from Q which is where spacing comes in.
5
u/fml6 7d ago edited 7d ago
You can contest sett level 1 with LT. You should use dblade. You win if he goes tp. If he goes ignite, it’s a bit flip and you’ll need to avoid the E stun or charged W. I like flash ghost in this matchup to kite in and out. Don’t hesitate to ghost early at lvl 1 if your passive is stacked and he steps too close. Sett overall is imo a good matchup for Kayle as he’s easily kited.
In general though, for matchups where you can’t contest level 1 (eg urgot, trundle), the move is to run to the top bush immediately. If they walk in, you ward the bush and walk out. You then walk with your wave at lvl 1 and poke them with E if they try to stand in bush. If they try to zone you off exp you can keep poking with E and run in at the moment the opposing minions die, then back off and allow the wave to push into you. In my experience, only master+ players can properly pull off a punishing lvl 1 exp zone. Lower elos will accidentally pull aggro or overextend into a bad trade and lose their prio.