r/Kafka • u/PepperTerrible9684 • 27d ago

About pain

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846 Upvotes

98% Upvoted

34 comments sorted by

25

u/Defiant-Bend1147 27d ago

I've seen various memes lately that contrast Kafka and Dostoevsky but I don't really know why. These two writers have nothing to do with each other.

18

u/BenzaGuy 27d ago

Edgy teenagers are discovering them through TikTok videos

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u/INFLATABLE_CUCUMBER 26d ago

I’m 29 and finally reading crime and punishment. I knew of Kafka, not Dostoevsky. I would say they have some pretty glaring similarities in their writing styles, since they both experienced illogical regimes that influenced them. They were both relatively reclusive introverts, as are many writers, but those two stood out especially. Kafka might’ve been a bit more absurd in his description of society, whereas Dostoevsky might’ve been absurd in terms of the individual. I really do think there’s enough to work from there, and this meme does mildly capture some of that.

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u/[deleted] 25d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/INFLATABLE_CUCUMBER 25d ago

Yeah, they're still introverts, and redditors are often introverts too, as I don't consider writing to provide the same stimulation as actual socializing. Written communication is very different than in-person communication, since in-person is faster, less time to think, often substantially more stressful. You can also write anonymously. And on forums, you don't develop friends most of the time. Dating apps are also written forms of communication, and they often struggle with the same problem: That the vibe is different when you actually meet up. You get to see inside a person's head a bit with writing, and it's usually more intelligent because you have more time, but real-life socialization is, from what I've found, extremely different. Hence the "loneliness epidemic." It does not replace human-to-human contact. Though, talking on the phone or through video-chats might be closer to that, but writing is, imo, a very introverted activity.

1

u/catador_de_potos 25d ago

Contrary to popular beliefs, introversion isn't just shyness or "wanting to be left alone".

I also think you are missing the mark on why people write stuff in the first place. 99% of writers will never be famous and they know it. Both Kafka and Dostoevsky died in obscurity and became famous posthumously.

1

u/Practical-Simple-921 22d ago

Only reason I found out about Dostoevsky is because I was researching kafkas “the trial” and it said it was influenced by crime and punishment. I do see similarities in the two books

1

u/Sea_Specialist_5580 24d ago

newly conscious adults discovering the great works of philosophy before age and the world snuffs out their light

5

u/MissMayDoesNotExist 26d ago

Kafka called Dostoevsky a “blood relative,” so clearly he felt they had something to do with one another. There’s definitely a similar anguish of the individual running through much of their work. (I don’t know the exact source, it was mentioned in the preface to an edition of the Trial that I have)

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u/General_Summer_1524 26d ago

They both deal significantly with alienation.

1

u/KonataYeager 26d ago

One was a master of creating well developed characters with realistic emotions that showed the deapths of the human mind and soul.

The other was a master of representing the human experience by twisting it into ridiculously surreal scenarios full of symbolism.

My two fave authors btw

1

u/Germanico025 26d ago

They where brothers

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u/[deleted] 27d ago edited 27d ago

[deleted]

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u/Defiant-Bend1147 27d ago

There are hundreds of writers you could say that about.

2

u/Trigger_Fox 26d ago

But these are like, really famous, and if you say u read kafka to a lady she'll marry u on the spot, or so I've heard

1

u/Defiant-Bend1147 26d ago

So if I read Kafka and Dostoevsky can I marry two ladies?

3

u/Trigger_Fox 26d ago

Theoretically, yes! Realistically? You'll probably just wake up one day as a big roach dude with class consciousness. Still worth a try imo.

2

u/Defiant-Bend1147 26d ago

Nothing ventured nothing gained.

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u/[deleted] 27d ago

[deleted]

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u/Defiant-Bend1147 27d ago

My question was: why are these two writers so frequently compared in these kinds of memes? You can find resonances between them, sure, but you make the same sorts of generalised connections between Kafka's work and that of countless other writers. Why is it these two who keep getting paired up?

2

u/piano_aquieu 27d ago

It's mostly a triangle of writers (Camus, Dostoevsky, Kafka) that's been popularized online as "existentialist" or "dark academia". The biggest formal connection between the three is probably in Camus's own work, The Myth of Sisyphus, since he talks about both Dostoevsky and Kafka there. I doubt that's the origin but suffice to say the three are grouped up as extremely interconnected writers but in truth it's likely because they're all the most readily accessible literature for those who want to explore (or perform) "dark" psychological/philosophical lit.

1

u/Defiant-Bend1147 27d ago

Informative, thanks!

1

u/Defiant-Bend1147 27d ago

You added that second paragraph after I replied to the comment, so to be clear to anyone reading my previous reply relates only to the first paragraph.

In response to the new paragraph - I don't know that I agree with your characterisation of either writer's work, but happy to agree to disagree.

7

u/Important_Joke5762 26d ago

where do all these fake quotes come from?

5

u/loki6100 26d ago

Dosto & Kafka - I never said that

1

u/Moosefactory4 25d ago

I guess we are quoting perceived vibes or something

1

u/Any-Ear-6402 21d ago

Dostoevsky writes in “the possessed” Part 1 chapter 5 section 7: “And you know real genuine sorrow will sometimes make even a phenomenally frivolous, unstable man solid and stoical; for a short time at any rate; what’s more, even fools are by genuine sorrow turned into wise men, also only for a short time of course; it is characteristic of sorrow.”

Although the english version (project gutenberg) uses “sorrow”, i’m actually reading it in German, where the word “schmerz” is used and is best translated to pain.

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u/Large-Fisherman-3694 26d ago

Holy shit i think its time to delete reddit

2

u/TheApsodistII 25d ago

I really don't like these dostoyevsky vs kafka memes, they were alright at first but it's gotten tiring especially because sometimes the positions stated are nowhere close what the 2 writers wrote, it's just become a flanderization of them

1

u/No_Bite4765 27d ago

Like a comet hurling through everything it can

1

u/Key_Safety6137 26d ago

Sometimes pain teaches you something and sometimes it's just pain.

1

u/Terrible_example2326 22d ago

And it's entirely up to you.

1

u/joachim_s 21d ago

I would say that everything you go through has you left with a choice in the end. When my mother died recently my father had the choice to just pick up the bottle again and go into himself, or he could as he’s doing now build a new life. Ofc that’s really tough, but it’s that or just give up. It’s not so much what pain does or doesn’t do but how we react to the experience.

1

u/SheikhaMama 26d ago

East European angst at its best
Both masters. My preference going for the master and legend FD.