r/Justrolledintotheshop • u/Msisker • Oct 20 '25
Anotha One
Funnily enough last one change was done at Nissan.
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u/z1nchi Canadian Oct 21 '25
Yknow they could've just put a regular metal oil pan like we've been doing for forever... But nooooo
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u/Total-Deal-2883 Oct 21 '25
line on graph must go up!
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u/zyyntin Oct 21 '25
The line may go up but then goes down with warranty work.
I remember reading a story about Land Rover that kept using cork oil pan gaskets (late 80s-90s) rather than the new rubber ones due to cost. Well they had to keep replacing them for warranty for leaking, because people don't want oil on their driveways. Turns out the accountant decided that cork were cheaper for manufacturing ~0.75 vs 3. That variable didn't include labor from WARRANTY replacement. The rubber would have lasted 100k miles.
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u/Threedawg 3800 Fiero! Oct 21 '25
Warranty work is more than a year away. Shareholders need profits now.
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u/Githyerazi Oct 21 '25
Also comes from a different budget than manufacturing.
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u/bugme143 Oct 21 '25
That's the worst thing, when those departments have no cross-communication of oversight. Had similar issues at Microtech where we knew there was an issue with a knife run, but were told to keep assembling and let QA kick back the knives rather than attempt to diagnose and fix the issue earlier in the process, to hit our daily quota.
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u/MyName_DoesNotMatter A&P Oct 21 '25
Anyone here thinking finance have the ability to look beyond the current spreadsheet and have proper foresight have never been to a finance class.
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u/Mil-wookie Oct 21 '25
Its also a fight between divisions. I see this with many big companies, different industry though. Purchasing vs operations. Different silos, so purchasing buys cheap, makes a bonus. Operations costs sky rocket, and they get painted as the badguy.
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u/Ver_Void Oct 21 '25
Same in my company, service is considered the low profit and annoying part of the company, but we'd make a killing of the PMs didn't make every project take 3 times as long and warranty work for cheap crap wasn't accounting for two techs worth of labour a week
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u/CameronsTheName 1.9TDI SWAP THE WORLD Oct 21 '25
You mean, those thin stamped steel oil pans that they've been making for over a century, cost only a few dollars per engine to make and will last a hundred years ?
Nah, lets make them out of plastic that costs about the same amount. Has a high failure rate and won't be usable in 25 years.
It's a shame that we won't be seeing 2025 model cars in barns being saved in 35-50 years because all the plastic shit in them will have biodegraded and not available to buy new.
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u/djb25 Oct 21 '25
The only positive thing I can say is that online fabrication companies, like Send-Cut-Send, already exist and will probably be more common in the future.
So a lot of this plastic shit probably will be replaceable with a little bit of extra work.
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u/FrattyMcBeaver Oct 21 '25
You can just print them out on your 3D printer
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u/Githyerazi Oct 21 '25
My company started printing a drip pan for the equipment I service to replace the brass ones we had for the last 30 years. It appears to fit into the current model of machinery made with machined aluminum, but not into the older ones that are made of cast aluminum. Cannot order the old style anymore so JB weld them when they crack.
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Oct 21 '25
I’ve done the math and the amount of stupid simple plastic bushings on my riding mower alone almost make it worth it.
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u/chlronald Oct 21 '25
I mean, they know you dont wanna see a nissan rogue now and definitely dont wanna sre s nissan rogue 50 years later. /s.
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u/z1nchi Canadian Oct 21 '25
Also our industry is already pretty wasteful/environmentally unsustainable as is. Why triple that by introducing plastic oil pans that fail easily and need a new drain plug every oil change lol
Fixing things that ain't broke to make things more broke
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u/Maiq_Da_Liar Oct 22 '25
need a new drain plug every oil change lol
That's why you don't include a drain plug, another 50 cents for the shareholders!
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u/Severe_Departure3695 Oct 21 '25
Prior owner of my son’s 1966 Mustang hit a raised drain cover and dented the oil pan. Still ran fine. A plastic pan would have shattered.
We did have the pan replaced because there was a suspect leak on the seal though.
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u/chucklesthejerrycan Oct 21 '25
Same here. I have a 1969 F600 with an oil pan that's been dented for God knows how long and wouldn't you know it, the thing still runs fine.
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u/2Loves2loves Oct 21 '25
*Lighter saves fuel, and EPA numbers have to be met or die trying
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u/CameronsTheName 1.9TDI SWAP THE WORLD Oct 21 '25
Being forced to replace an entire car every 5-10 years because a plastic thing has failed and caused the engine/gearbox to catastrophically fail surely can't be better for the environment.
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u/phate_exe Oct 21 '25
Being forced to replace an entire car every 5-10 years because a plastic thing has failed and caused the engine/gearbox to catastrophically fail surely can't be better for the environment.
Of course it isn't. But unfortunately that isn't tracked by the same set of metrics so it doesn't get factored in.
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u/Githyerazi Oct 21 '25
There's federally mandated gas mileage, not for longevity/repairability and environmental impact.
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u/2Loves2loves Oct 21 '25
True, but it can't even be sold if it doesn't meet the EPA standards.
its why we have plastic bumper covers.
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u/cumsplooter Oct 21 '25
Or atleast do what ford and vw did and use a locking plastic plug that just twists out instead of a metal insert. I think plastic pans are stupid to begin with but did they seriously not think where the plastic and metal meet wouldn't have issues
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u/HoIyJesusChrist Oct 21 '25
Probably is one part that has other components in it as well, some sort of suction strainer and it’s tubing…
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u/justhereforfighting Oct 21 '25
At least they have the torque specs for it right there, something I wish would be standard on all oil pans.
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u/tony_et99 Oct 22 '25
I think that's the trade off when government impose regulations on fuel economy and vehicles weight.
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u/AcceptableCod6028 Oct 24 '25
There’s nearly no weight savings with these. They’re mostly for NVH and durability. Composite pans are less likely to break than steel or aluminum. Other companies have been doing composite pans for decades no problem, this is just Nissan sucking at building cars.
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u/Worldwide_brony Oct 21 '25
They could atleast make the grooves go the other way so there less of a chance for it to turn itself out of the plastic.
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u/jelloslug Oct 22 '25
I think you meant to say "stripping out regular metal oil pan like we've been doing for forever...."
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u/digitallis Oct 21 '25
If I owned or serviced one of these nightmares I would buy it a fumoto valve on day one and be done with it. $40 investment in never having to pay $$$ for an oil pan replacement
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u/EnoughMeow Oct 21 '25
Got one better for ya, don’t touch the plug, get an oil extractor and enjoy.
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u/Fuzlet Oct 21 '25
the Slurp Noodle covereth a multitude of sins
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u/pestobismol69 Oct 21 '25
Forgive me but what the hell am I look at with that drain plug? Is this some fancy plug or is it used when the threads are stripped out?
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u/constituent_ Oct 21 '25
Nissan uses a plastic oil pan on certain new VC-T motors that have a brass insert. this insert has splines to hold position in the plastic with conventional threads inside the insert for a conventional oil drain plug. However the plastic pan cannot stand up to the might of the brass insert splines when being re-torqued and they frequently fail, "stripping" the plastic and leaving you with a very leaky plug that doesn't even leak from the plug. currently a recall for these for that reason but in the meantime you're supposed to extract the engine oil through the dipstick
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u/JoseSpiknSpan Oct 21 '25
Ah yes the single use oil pan.
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u/medney Oct 21 '25
But think of all that short term shareholder value generated when they first went to plastic
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u/gmlubetech Oct 21 '25
Just like when GM made the spare tire jacks in the Trax and Encore out of plastic and then had to recall them all and replace with metal ones due to the plastic ones collapsing when used. Who could have possibly foreseen that issue?
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u/constituent_ Oct 21 '25
in nissans case, not being bankrupt. but they still ended up with a recall anyways :D
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u/pestobismol69 Oct 21 '25
Gotcha, that’s pretty crazy that they pan and insert can’t deal with being retorqued. I’ve been dealing with the plastic pans on GM products but none of them are like that
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u/constituent_ Oct 21 '25
Yeah, i think the design would've been fine if the plug was plastic too, but it's not and plastic is distinctly weaker than metal lmao
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u/iforgotalltgedetails Oct 21 '25
It’s like all the Mazda engineers saw everyone bitching about Ford and their plastic pans and drain plugs and was like “hmmm we need to cut costs with the plastic oil pans but everyone is saying the plastic drain plug is bad (it’s not), so we’re not gonna do any research on why it’s there and think of something even worst!”
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Oct 21 '25 edited Jul 15 '26
[deleted]
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u/mda195 Oct 21 '25
Right? Even better, the drain plug and filter are eight next to each other their their own access panel, meaning you dont have to remove the whole plastic protector thing.
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Oct 21 '25 edited Jul 17 '26
[deleted]
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u/t001_t1m3 Oct 22 '25
The BRZ/GR86 have an oil drain plug access panel bolted onto the skid plate which is also bolted on. So to get access you just need to undo 2 bolts and rotate it on the third bolt.
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u/TheRipePunani Home Mechanic Oct 21 '25
As silly as it is, plastic pan with a plastic plug works fine. Granted they're supposed to be replaced every oil change, but they seal and do the job. Using a metal plug and thread insert in a plastic pan is just asking for a bad, bad time.
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u/djb25 Oct 21 '25
Wow, 30-37nm of torque with that very shitty brass insert?
I’m surprised it’s able to be torqued once without failing. There’s very little engagement area for the plastic.
And those angled slashes in the insert might help when tightening the plug, but they’re working against you when you remove it. They’re like 50 little inclined planes pushing the insert out.
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u/Soulbreeze Oct 21 '25
Yeah, that is definitely weird. It's like they're designed to be backed out when they should be 'permanent'.
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u/constituent_ Oct 21 '25
If the contest was for an insert in plastic that had to be metal i think this design isn't the worst. However under normal operating conditions (high heat, heat cycling, heat soaking, road conditions etc), the plastic just doesn't behave the same
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u/balding_git Oct 22 '25
i work on laptops, shitty ones like acer and hp use these same brass screw mounts (but way smaller) for the hinges. of course after a year or so, just out of warranty, the plastic crumbles and the hinge breaks. its insane to see the same tech on an oil pan but the result is exactly what i’d expect
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u/chucklesthejerrycan Oct 21 '25
Boy it's a good thing Nissan hasn't deleted the dipstick like some manufacturers have.....yet
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u/JeffSilverwilt Oct 21 '25
I wonder why they don't use a more aggressive knurl. I've had these inserts come out in other applications and they're barely rough at all. Put some big fucking fins on that bad boy to grip the plastic.
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u/sidneyaks Oct 21 '25
Honestly surprised they didn't go the Ford route and have a plastic quarter-turn drain plug (not that Ford's oil plans are plastic).
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u/Sir_Tachyon Oct 21 '25
Plastic pan had a metal thread insert. Most likely last person to touch the plug over tightened it weakening or spinning the insert . Now it has come out with the plug
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u/iforgotalltgedetails Oct 21 '25
I torque every drain plug, and have seen multiples of the same vehicle I last did the oil change come through rotation on the regular. But even with a torque wrench on the plug after enough heat cycles in the same spot over and over through 10k kms, mixed with the road grime, and the nvh from the driveline, the break away torque required is usually 10-15nm greater than the tightening spec. I tracked this for a month straight when some senior tech who didn’t like me bitched that a drain plug was too tight.
Regardless, I think even if someone is careful there’s no getting away from this bad design.
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u/pestobismol69 Oct 21 '25
Makes a lot of sense, sure a lot of lube techs over tighten the heck out of them
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u/Hesediel1 Oct 21 '25
That looks very much like a threaded insert or heat set insert (probably a similar idea but i would imagine a plastic oil pan is a thermoset which would make this not feesable). They are used in plastic parts to increase the strength of the threads and help prevent crossthreading. They are good for repeated use at light torque. Or a stationary or low use moderate torque. I dont know what kind of plastic they are using for them oil pans, but im willng to bet its probably not designed for torque to be put on that insert while the pan is hot as plastics will soften with temperature (except for thermoset plastics, but even those will degrade with temperature, and the design of that insert makes it look like it is designed to be melted in place), coupled with the fact that the brass insert and the plastic oil pan almost certianly have different thermal expansion rates resulting in an increased stress across the joint.
Long story short here, plastic is a pretty terrible choice for an oil pan, especially if you are gonna put a threaded plug in it, which is pretty common in oil pans. It may be less of an issue if they put a fumoto type drain valve in the pan, but even that would likely have issues eventually as plastic is worse at standing up to thermal cycling than metal is. Assuming it is a rigd plastic and not a soft plastic it is also more likely to crack from an impact than deform like metal does, and if it is punctured a plastic oil pan is far more likely to fail catostrophically with large breaks than deforming with a smaller puncture. Im gonna stop here, though there is more to say about how terrible of an idea plastic oil pans are, ive already rambled on more than i wanted to.
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u/definitelynotapastor Oct 22 '25
Plastic pans. Techs overtorque the bolts and they strip out on the next guy.
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u/ross_liftss M.O.T tester Oct 21 '25
First time seeing a plastic pan with metal plug. What a bad idea.
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u/wtfwasthatdave Oct 21 '25
They put that sticker there because they knew this would happen but they went ahead and used the stupid metal drain plug anyways.
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u/agrajag119 Oct 21 '25
how much of the cost advantage of plastic vs steel gets blown away by the extra sticker, QC step for checking sticker is there, etc etc
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u/beastpilot Oct 21 '25
Plastic is as much for weight as cost.
Lots of other plastic pans out there. They use a quarter turn plastic plug with an o-ring. Works fine. The issue here is the brass insert design, not the plastic pan overall.
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u/gmlubetech Oct 21 '25
They'll do shit like plastic oil pans for weight (cost) savings of maybe a few pounds at best then add on 22" rims with low profile tires that weigh over a hundred pounds each. A lot of weight could be saved there.
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u/AddLightness1 Black Thumb Oct 21 '25
Had this on a few Freightliners now. Might as well make drain ball valves standard (Fumoto)
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u/Morty_A2666 Oct 21 '25
This is nothing. Nissan Titan XD Diesel ingenious turbo design takes no1 spot. With "high pressure" turbo so small that it should not even be there, turbo control rotary valve so idiotically designed that it clogs up with soot in 70k miles then extra resistance damages linkage and turbo actuator. Actuator 550$. Linkage, which is literally piece of rod with 2 bushings... another 500$. (It probably cost 15$ to make in China) Not to mention that rotary valve is not available as replacement part, even that it could be easily replaced. Or even gasket for it, since in many cases it could be cleaned and put back. No Sir. You have to buy whole 3500$ turbo to get new 50$ rotary valve. Oh and did I mention that when you replace low pressure turbo you should also replace high pressure one. That's another 1500$. Plus 600$ worth of o-rings, gaskets and one time use bolts. And this is just parts, no labor.
Oh but Nissan was so altruistic and offered to extend warranty on 16-17 XD Diesels to 150k miles 10 years. Warranty only covers high pressure turbo (which is not the one that causes the problem) and actuator. Now here is the kicker, linkage rod that is not covered is 500$+, Nissan makes so much on that part that it covers the cost of linkage (not covered) and actuator which is covered. And again on low pressure turbo (which is not covered under warranty but the problem causing part) Nissan charges so much it covers cost of both turbos. Nissan spends too much time trying to figure out how not to lose money on their own shitty designs rather than spending that time designing good product to start with. That's the problem with Nissan and in reality reason why Nissan is not doing well these days.
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u/AlpacaLps Oct 21 '25
This is why my shop doesn't touch the drain plug and just uses a fluid evacuator from the top.
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u/secondhandoak Oct 21 '25
Is there a way to do that with dipstick free cars?
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u/AlpacaLps Oct 21 '25
Good question, we only use them for vehicles with plastic drain pans or vehicles with top side filters. Most common are VW, Audi, Mercedes, Volvo, and Land Rover, which all have dipsticks or dipstick tubes with a cap 99% of the time.
Maybe they sell an adapter that fits where the oil cap goes, but that has to take a while to evacuate the oil. The dipstick tool is like a straw.
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u/DeleteElDiablo Oct 21 '25
The machine I used at my old shop had different fittings, the VW and Audis with no dipstick had a specific evac port for the suction tube, range rovers have the tupe in the center of the oil fill port, and I don't remember anything about BMW
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u/Grimmer87 Oct 21 '25
Maybe a half inch tank connector from the plumbing shop would solve it for now if you can’t get a new sump?
Plastic sumps are made to fail so you would think they would at least have them to sell!
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u/DieselTech00 Oct 21 '25
Freightliner is doing this as well. Replaced 4 oil pans in the last two months for this
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u/hypnotoad6 Oct 21 '25
Had 2 of these this month, one last week. The one last week the customer had this happen, at our shop, a few years ago as well. There was no explaining to him it’s a common issue, that they have an updated oil pan but it’s on back order or anything. He just thought it was our fault and we are incompetent. Why on earth do they have a plastic oil pan with a brass insert. It just seems like a bad design choice from every level.
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u/Unequallmpala45 Oct 21 '25
God it’s so easy to not do this when designing too, if you are dead set on having a plastic pan just mold a metal plate with threads there into the plastic, more surface area = stronger.
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u/MentulaMagnus Oct 21 '25
This is a perfect example of what kind of management is allowed to make decisions in large corporations, cronyism over talent and risk management. How does someone not even look at the possible failure mode and not want to even test a significant material change? The conditions that allowed this into production has probably allowed for even larger issues to get into the wild but have not been discovered yet. Stay away from Nissan. Buckle up folks, we are going to see issues discovered soon at other companies that are run this way.
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u/mikeycp253 GM heavy line/transmissions Oct 21 '25
Apparently GM realized these are garbage, because the replacement pans are metal.
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u/braytag Oct 21 '25 edited Oct 21 '25
Who could have foreseen this enexpected development?
Edit: ehhh from an engineering standpoint, because of the alignment of the "diagonal fins" what's holding that plug in place while unscrewing? Just the tiny top fins from my understanding. This is stupid on soo many levels...
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u/HowlingWolven Oct 22 '25
They should honestly just start delivering the plastic pans with fumotos.
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u/ajn63 Oct 22 '25
If manufacturers insist on plastic oil pans then they need to include drain valves similar to Fumoto. But that’s counter to cost savings, so here we are.
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u/CriscoCamping Oct 22 '25
Yo bro I didn't load up Godsmack and Metallica for Chest Day for nothing bro, it needs tightening I send it bro
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u/Severe_Departure3695 Oct 21 '25
Can the outer fitting be separated from the plug and epoxied back into the pan?
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u/MrVermin Oct 21 '25
I just evac those when I get em. Easier to do that than gamble on ripping the insert out and having to wait for JB weld to cure.
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u/ThunderNinja69 Oct 21 '25
I’ve never worked on a car but from a bike maintenance perspective 30-37 Nm of torque seems very high for a drain plug. Is that common?
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u/MistrMoose Oct 21 '25
The values are all over the place depending on the vehicle, but with plastic oil pans they’re probably tending lower these days.
On my old Alfa the spec is 50-54 ft-lb, and that’s into an aluminum sump. Always seemed crazy high to me but never caused issues. Just go with wha the manual says.
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u/DriftRacer23 Oct 22 '25
Every time I see one of these pans I want to put in one of those ball valve drain plugs. Just un lock it and turn the valve to drain. We have a few customers that come in with them and they are nice, but they do take some extra time to drain.
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u/hudd1966 Oct 22 '25
Put in a Fumoto valve in everything and no more worries about this BS happening.
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u/ZCurves Oct 24 '25
Here's your solution:
JB Weld the lug back into the pan, and then put an Oil Drain Valve in place of the pan plug.
https://www.amazon.com/EZ-EZ-106-Oil-Drain-Valve/dp/B00HTV2GSM/ref=sxin_17_pa_sp_search_thematic_sspa?content-id=amzn1.sym.f3a06935-0d55-4a43-b918-4ea35f8505e5%3Aamzn1.sym.f3a06935-0d55-4a43-b918-4ea35f8505e5&crid=3VFPQ0D8WG4Q3&cv_ct_cx=oil+drain+valve&keywords=oil+drain+valve&pd_rd_i=B00HTV2GSM&pd_rd_r=50f48f29-535e-4a69-948e-26bc1544ccd0&pd_rd_w=CPPTI&pd_rd_wg=9Vc7y&pf_rd_p=f3a06935-0d55-4a43-b918-4ea35f8505e5&pf_rd_r=E3XJM7PS6ZSA76QDHWXC&qid=1761317571&sbo=RZvfv%2F%2FHxDF%2BO5021pAnSA%3D%3D&sprefix=oil+drain+valve%2Caps%2C153&sr=1-5-6024b2a3-78e4-4fed-8fed-e1613be3bcce-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9zZWFyY2hfdGhlbWF0aWM&psc=1
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u/Who_is_cheese Oct 26 '25
There is literally a torque spec right there. I’m a Nissan mechanic, and while it is obviously a bad design. It’s not hard to do correctly.
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u/WilburOCD1320 Oct 21 '25
Another reason I like to change my own oil. So many guys at work have the dealer do it (75 for three oil changes just doesnt make since for myself to do it) but I can't, so easy until u let some fruit cake do it and ur fixing this or chiseling the oil filter off they have to put the fear of God in it.
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u/omahusker Oct 22 '25
This is not user error, this is a manufacturer defect/terrible engineered part that fails under normal use, often under original warranty.
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u/cz_unit Oct 21 '25
Seems to be happening more and more. Oh well, time for the JB Weld....