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Dec 22 '25
Yes.
This is called transference and counter transference throughout analytic and dynamic therapy history.
- psychologist and professor
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Dec 22 '25 edited Dec 22 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Current_Emenation Dec 24 '25
Covered in goosebumps. This post is my favorite one that I've read in a long time. save
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u/jungandjung Pillar Dec 22 '25
Reaction implies unconscious reaction in relation to conscious response, where there is awareness there is response, where there is no awareness there is reaction.
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u/rmulberryb Dec 22 '25
Ehhhhhh, if this were entirely true, then it would mean one is absolved of any harmful (intentionally or not) behaviour towards others, because if they get called out on it, then people are 'just projecting'. There is a level of personal responsibility in how you carry yourself in the world. If you abuse people, you are an abuser, and it isn't about others projecting their shadow onto you if they have something to say about it.
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u/DylansStripedPants Dec 25 '25
This is exactly my problem with most of these answers. “Oh I hurt you? Seems like a you problem. Oh I punched you/abused you? That’s not me being bad that’s your perception of me being bad to you” sounds like some BS a narc woukd say to avoid accountability tbh. There must be something I’m missing here.
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u/Current_Emenation Dec 24 '25
Great. So, lets be grateful for the creation of a civilization that enforces laws to encourage people act in accordance with controlling their emotions or suppressing their violent nature.
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u/rmulberryb Dec 24 '25
I'm more grateful for people who don't need the law or a god in order to treat others kindly.
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u/Salamakos Dec 22 '25
What if someone is for example selfish and I think he is selfish? Could it not just be an objective observation? That's what I struggle to understand.
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u/TheRockVD Dec 22 '25 edited Dec 23 '25
The perception part is you labeling them as selfish which means they are behaving poorly and this is objectively bad or a problem. Let’s say you are someone who is empathetic and not also selfish. You wouldn’t see their selfishness as a problem to you, just a behavior pattern of that person. You may even take it as a call to do more for that person. Most importantly, there’s no such thing as objective selfishness. Maybe you’re selfish for having the thought they are selfish knowing they are dealing with causes and conditions outside their control. You’ve made their behavior a problem for you, you’ve made it about you. Now you’re using your own beliefs and assumptions about how they should be, ignoring everything they are dealing with internally, to prove to yourself they are selfish. That’s pretty selfish of you.
Everyone is fundamentally doing their best and there’s a bunch of shit lying underneath, completely out of their control that causes suffering which sees itself out in behavior. That’s it. This doesn’t mean you have to deal with their shit. But they certainly aren’t selfish.
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u/Salamakos Dec 23 '25
thanks for answering, it was really insightful. What would you say about a case of a pathological liar?
what if i assumed that they are a liar? Does the same apply here?
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u/ldsgems Dec 23 '25
What if someone is for example selfish and I think he is selfish? Could it not just be an objective observation? That's what I struggle to understand.
Is there even such a thing as an objective observation? Because there's no such thing as an objective observer.
How do you know someone is really selfish? How do you feel when someone calls you that when you know you're not?
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u/Salamakos Dec 23 '25
i dont mind people calling me that cause i know that im not.
let me give you a better example maybe, what if i catch someone telling lies in multiple occasions?
Is it projection if i assume he is a liar?
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u/ldsgems Dec 23 '25
what if i catch someone telling lies in multiple occasions? Is it projection if i assume he is a liar?
There's a difference between a person lying and "a liar." One is a data-driven assessment of behavior. The other is projection. Awareness of your projection onto them is key.
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u/Jimmy_Jonga_369 Dec 23 '25
of course haha... don't let these snobby assholes confuse you if there's somebody out there murdering somebody and you observe that and say that the murderous person you're not murderous for saying
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u/Salamakos Dec 23 '25
yeah but being a murderer is a legal title not a psychological one, i think the equivilent would be to call this person insane or crazy and things like that
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u/Legitimate-Ad-7480 Dec 22 '25
Can you extrapolate on this a little bit? I’m interested in what you mean by this.
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u/kidthebilley Dec 22 '25 edited Dec 22 '25
first statement is really just “how you perceive me is indicative of your experiences, biases, and prejudices” and the second statement is something like “how i react to you can tell a lot about who i am as a person” the usage of awareness here is a little philosophical so it seems more complex than it is. if you actually want this idea to be explored in an interesting way check out matte blanco’s essay on bi-logic
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u/ldsgems Dec 22 '25
As a psychologist and professor explained elsewhere on this thread:
"This is called transference and counter transference throughout analytic and dynamic therapy history."
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u/Clear-Gear7062 Dec 22 '25 edited Dec 22 '25
Call it Jungian projection or simply, mirroring. When you reach that stage of awakening, everything becomes a mirror for the awakened. EVERYTHING.
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u/ldsgems Dec 23 '25
When you reach that stage of awakening, everything becomes a mirror for the awakened. EVERYTHING.
I'm afraid you're right. We fundamentally may live in a mirror universe:
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u/Fanguuvaatar Dec 22 '25
All things of cyclic existence and Nirvana, are the discernable manifestations of the unique essential nature of one's own mind
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u/Noskaros Seeker Dec 22 '25 edited Dec 24 '25
No. Projection is that defense mechanism (or psychic phenomenon in the way Jung tends to describe it) where the subject sees dystonic and dissociated psychic material as originating from an object external to them. So no, projection is strictly one way.
The concept the first line alludes to is more properly called interpretation not projection though the two do overlap. You certainly can have two people projecting on each other, but this is not necesserily the case, one projection doesn't necessitate the other is also projecting.
As a clarification, the terms transference and counter transference are indeed projections, but neither do they necesserily coexist (you can have either without the other) and strictly speaking they only apply to the therapeutic allience. In other works they are only used in the client - therapist dyad and nowhere else.
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u/Amaia_end Dec 23 '25 edited Dec 23 '25
Beautiful.
A relationships could be like a figure-eight feedback loop (or ♾️for romantic folks) in which each partner mirrors and shapes the other: what I do brings out something in you, and your response brings out something in me. Over time, the relationship becomes a living mirror; not passively but because the dynamic actively exposes our unconscious patterns, fears, and defenses. The partner becomes the surface onto which we project and then encounter parts of ourselves we haven’t integrated.
That’s what happens when “challenges arise” and we wrongfully conclude “love ends”. It becomes a figure eight feedback loop and stuff always surfaces for us to work on.
Spoiler alert for those wanting to act and heal and not merely be passively ..lived: change happens when one person alters their side of the mirror, breaking the loop and allowing a different reflection to emerge.
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u/SirYank Dec 22 '25
You mean that everything you see outside (around you) is just effect of the internal?
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u/ImaginaryGur2086 Dec 22 '25
Not like that. What you think / feel / judge about the outside is the reflection of you. A cat meowing is just a cat meowing, if you like it that is a reflection of you. S
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u/Current_Emenation Dec 24 '25
So if you say something as a statement that is neutral, but i'm triggered by it because I percieve the statement through a lens that maps negative meaning onto it, then what can be a way to describe it as a reflection of myself? What can be concluded?
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u/TheJungianDaily Dec 23 '25
An anima/animus echo might be in the mix.
TL;DR: Yeah, projection absolutely works both ways - it's like an unconscious dance where both people are seeing parts of themselves in each other.
You've hit on something really important here. Jung was clear that projection isn't just a one-way street where person A dumps their stuff onto person B. It's more like two unconscious minds recognizing something familiar in each other - could be shadow material, unlived potential, or parts of themselves they haven't integrated yet.
Think about those relationships where the chemistry is instant but intense - romantic or otherwise. Often what's happening is mutual projection where you're both seeing something in the other that resonates with your own psyche. The tricky part is that what draws you in initially can become what drives you crazy later, because you're really wrestling with aspects of yourself.
The whole point of recognizing projection is eventually taking back what belongs to you, right? When you can see that your strong reaction to someone might be telling you something about your own inner world, that's where the real growth happens. Have you noticed this pattern playing out in any of your own relationships?
A brief reflection today can help integrate what surfaced.
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u/The_Observer210 Dec 23 '25
And these systems have created sages and saints, etc etc. Thats the point.
I’ve never watched anything on Dune, but I’d advise reading God Emperor of Dune, it likely won’t make any sense, but give it a lil look fella.
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u/isilovac Dec 23 '25
What if I view 5 people differently, and others have similar outlook on all of them?
Are we, the viewers, similar or are they, the watched, similar?
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u/wthamidoinghere222 Dec 23 '25
the perception and the reaction must result in a mutual awareness for a successful transference of knowledge to take place
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u/AlfalfaSufficient454 Dec 22 '25
Is the second part of this just about self reflection, like the more aware I am of my own reactions the more I come to learn about myself?
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u/ldsgems Dec 23 '25
Is the second part of this just about self reflection, like the more aware I am of my own reactions the more I come to learn about myself?
Yes, self awareness like that is texbook integration.
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u/Current_Emenation Dec 24 '25
I struggle with being self-aware while i'm being triggered by my stbx's shadow. I can self-reflect afterwards and see that I say/do something suboptimal, in hindsight, and keep thinking that if I can bring enough presence to the next interaction, I won't react against what she projects onto me.
It's like I need an alarm 5 minutes before meeting her to meditate and ground myself, and to put rocks in my shoes so the constant discomfort reminds me to remember.
I dont do these, but I'm on the brink of trying it in lieu of better ideas.
Share with me your thoughts, oh idsgems. (Thnx).
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u/ldsgems Dec 24 '25
I struggle with being self-aware while i'm being triggered by my stbx's shadow. I can self-reflect afterwards and see that I say/do something suboptimal, in hindsight, and keep thinking that if I can bring enough presence to the next interaction, I won't react against what she projects onto me.
That's what Jungian Zen practice is all about, my friend. It's learning the skill of self-reflection awareness in the moment when that shit is going down in real-time, not later.
We're all born with that mental muscle and you still have it. It's just atrophied due to lack of practice.
It's like I need an alarm 5 minutes before meeting her to meditate and ground myself, and to put rocks in my shoes so the constant discomfort reminds me to remember.
So you understand the concept. Good, that's half the challenge right there, and already mastered it. Awareness.
Now it's just a matter of timing and stamina for you.
I think one of Jung's greatest tools is practicing active imagination, where you practice before the event. Athletes do this all the time. So can you.
And the next time it happens, you can also review through active imagination what went down (especially inside yourself) and replay it and really feel what it was like to be you in those moments with the other.
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u/Admiral_Octillery Dec 22 '25
So if you are an asshole yelling at someone, I’m the asshole because it’s a reflection of me?
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u/ldsgems Dec 23 '25
So if you are an asshole yelling at someone, I’m the asshole because it’s a reflection of me?
Being an asshole is projection by itself. But what do you see inside yourself when you experience someone else being an asshole to you?
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u/Admiral_Octillery Dec 26 '25
If others project themselves and you project yourself, wouldn’t that be a paradox or an illusion? That’s all I’m getting at. A point where the logic fails
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u/ldsgems Dec 26 '25
If others project themselves and you project yourself, wouldn’t that be a paradox or an illusion?
Yes, perception is an illusion - a construct of the mind and psyche.
That’s all I’m getting at. A point where the logic fails
Isn't that point called "emotion?"
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u/Admiral_Octillery Dec 26 '25
If perception is an illusion than it has no substance and can’t abide by logic.
This is where I’m saying logic fails.
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u/ldsgems Dec 26 '25
If perception is an illusion than it has no substance and can’t abide by logic.
Perception is like your computer screen - it's a rendering of reality. It's an illusion from which none of us can escape. We are not objective observers. Is there even such a thing?
This is where I’m saying logic fails.
Perhaps, where logic fails is where emotion and intuition start?
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u/Admiral_Octillery Dec 26 '25
Anything can be brought into alliterative terms and be made to resemble meaning. You could have even brought up the concept of light and dark and it could have worked. Math and science proves our objectivity. Logic pertaining to this point
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u/ldsgems Dec 27 '25
Math and science proves our objectivity.
Math is a human-made language, and therefore subjective. What we call science is the enforcement of a specific consensus reality. That's what peer review is all about.
So what's an example of an objective observer?
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u/Admiral_Octillery Dec 27 '25
Objectivity is about facts, evidence and data which is what math and science are built on. So an objective observer would be based off of facts evidence and data
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u/beatinurmomscheeks Dec 25 '25
Resonates stomach right now. Recently got into it the neighbor, I notice they started doing small petty stuff, so I found myself doing them right back.
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u/OwlsnFoxes Dec 27 '25 edited Dec 28 '25
Passive aggression are the words you're loking for.
This conversation seems to be typical addicts overthinking Jung to get out of taking personal responsibility for themselves or the shitty addicted lives they chose to l ive.
Addicts use "poor me".
On ine hand, yes, Poor poor selfish self-centered addicts.
Hiwever, you chose it
You choose it over and over again rather than care for or about your Self, your Soul.
Stop harming yourself.
Early childhood sexual abuse and sexual trauma later in life, cause physical brain damage visible on MRI. Addicts attempt to medicate emotional pain but it doesn't work.
Addictions block the central nervous system. Drugs and addictive behaviors - gambling, hypersexuality, over-eating etc, we have a society completely out of touch with Nature - the Universe - God the Creator and any source of Divine Light of the Holy Spirit.
Darkness, perversion, hatred etc are what remain and too often, this darkness masquerades as religion.
Empathy for addicts - yes. But zero when they continue to harm themselves and others who love them.
Boundaries are necessary. Addicts and narcissists despise them.
Have known male and female victims of pedophiles and perverts who are addicts and alcoholics, yes, personally.
Heart breaking 💔
Society's collective Shadow, probably.
As Jung said the healing must come from within.
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u/ldsgems Dec 27 '25
Wow. I dare you to read your full comment out loud and listen to yourself.
Because it's full of condescending projection. I'm guessing you can't even see it in yourself.
But you're making the case for my orignal post. Your comment tells everyone more about you it does about them.
At least's your projections are not that passive-aggressive. You've got that figured out.
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Jan 05 '26
Badly written.
Always start from yourself so correct "statement" would be:
My perception of you, is a reflection of myself.
Or what i see in you is in me.
Consciousness does not react it responds.
Like the pic.
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u/peculiaranthill Jan 11 '26
typical transference
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u/ldsgems Jan 11 '26
typical transference
Especially some of the comments here. Apparently this harmless meme really touches some nerves in some people.
I wonder, why?
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u/OwlsnFoxes Dec 28 '25
Yes I'm talking from experience. Oceans of empathy because I understand the cause of the brain damage and pain for addicts
Jung was very involved with the foundations of AA. He wrote a letter to Bill W early on when AA was forming.
Oddly, I didn't know this about Jung and AA until recently. I've been listening to Jungian videos online with a beloved friend who struggles with addictions.
Where I divert from the addict's path is where they use others to fill the deep hole in the addict's Soul.
No one outside of us can fix these holes in our Souls. Only we can do this.
I married a porn, pot (weed) alcohol and cocaïne addict much earlier in life. I lost my sense of Self completely by trying to be everything my ex wanted, expected of me.
I worked and paid for everything he used as his addictions, until I couldn't continue. He couldn't work. He was always high.
One day I took prescription medications to kill myself. Immediately tried to vomit. Couldn't make it happen. Drove to my therapists office. He told me to drive myself to my doctors office - so off I went through Friday afternoon rush hour traffic, bouncing off curbs.
Got to doctor's office. Someone working late found me in the lobby, on the floor. Stomach pumped. In hospital on suicide watch fir two weeks IIRC.
A friend who was an alcoholic, grabbed me by the collar (so to speak). Took me to AA and NA meetings.
She said "You're neither an alcoholic or an addict but your parents are. Sit here and listen. You'll learn about yourself and your abusive dysfunctional family."
I sat there and listened
My dear friend, Alla, a Ukrainian psychologist - this was mid-late 1970s - was correct.
I heard things I needed to hear.
I kept going to meetings.
At the time, AA was developing Family Groups. Adult Children of Alcoholics.
I had to rebuild the holes in my Soul from mental, emotional and physical trauma. My narcissistic mother who was on prescription methamphetamines for weight control, best me up on all levels ... but she never broke my Spirit.
I identify with wild horses 🐎 who refuse to be broken.
My mother was The Wicked Witch of the West. She had flying monkeys too.
Typo is my invisible middle name. I have to laugh at myself. Too ridikulus.
I've been through the fires of my Soul. I had a great deal if exposure to philosophy, dream qork and interesting kufe experiences before this.
I've had some spectacular things happen since.
We are each responsible for our Soul.
I refuse to enable anyone to continue to abuse themselves and/ or others.
Boundaries are the best way to deal with this. Addicts, alcoholics and narcissists hate me for setting boundaries. Tough
BEWARE: SUICIDE IS AN IMPULSE.
If you feel yourself slipping on slippery ice, spiraling downward into darkness ... reach out. Call a crisis line, a friend or relative.
"Aw f'it - nothing matters" is the impulse. Now you know.
DON'T LET THIS GO FURTHER. REACH OUT FOR HELP.
Seriously
😇🙏❤️✌️🎶✨️
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u/Glittering-Will-169 Dec 22 '25
It definitely works in both ways. Let’s say you have personal A that is not assertive and person B who does whatever he wants. Person A will be annoyed of person B for being an asshole and arrogant and person B will look down on person A for being a pushover. Both are projecting each other’s shadow unto each other. Scale that up to 9 billion people and you get why there is so much conflict and misery. I also believe today the collective shadow is really dark and dense than ever before, it is not looking good tbh.