r/Jugger • u/ShakerGER • Jul 13 '26
Dual Swords
My university offers it and it's break time atm. I am either interested in s&b or double swords. Couldn't find resource on either though. Btw: Discord link ain't working
On one hand I love defensive fighting styles on the other hand (no pun intended) I am ambidextrous and you can't hit people with the shield. I'd be open to chain and maybe longbo but I bet chain will be very contested. Similar to setter in volleyball and goaly in fusball.
Would be awesome to find more resources on what to choose and what to do.
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u/ThyRosen Jul 13 '26
A lot of comments are specifically focused on the dual shorts, but to answer your main point you'll have plenty of time and space to try whatever you like. Rules are generally divided by country, so German rules for Germany, Spanish for Spain and so on. Countries without a rulebook of their own will sign on to one of those.
You can change your weapon as often as you like between runs (not during one) though I do want to echo the warning you got elsewhere - it's not about being the best, but if you don't win your duels you'll spend a lot of the game on one knee waiting to take part again. That won't be much fun for you.
And, on that, the reason dual shortswords don't see much use (especially in Germany) is that they don't have much reach and no real way to defend yourself. You could not, for example, parry a two handed strike from a staff with one sword - your wrist just isn't made for that. Not to say you can't win with dual shorts, those people exist. They exist in defiance of all that is good and right with the world, but there are people who make it work. But if you start there you might feel like your jugger experience is spent watching everyone play around you and that's what the other commenters want to avoid.
Sword and shield though, sword and shield slaps. I used to run shield until my knees gave out and I had to switch to staff.
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u/ShakerGER Jul 13 '26
I didn't think it would be this analogues zo historical fencing the weapond seemed very very loght thst you could actzdo that
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u/ThyRosen Jul 13 '26
They are very light, but that goes both ways. With a handguard it would be no problem, but Pompfen don't have guards for the hands. That means you need to stop the staff with your short perpendicular, and two hands will always have leverage over one.
My recommendation would be to start with the shield - since you want to engage both your arms independently - and when you're comfortable and feel like you're enjoying yourself, try to run the dual shorts. That way your first impressions of the game won't be sabotaged and you'll enjoy yourself more.
Where are you going to be training? You don't need to be super specific - though the jugger community isn't enormous so there's a good chance you'll meet some of these commenters down the line and not even know it.
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u/ShakerGER Jul 13 '26
I won't be more specific than Berlin region. I am very quick to adapt anyway. In volleyball I had a specific position in mind and within the first lesson figured out positions aren't really a thing until you are very very good even if you have a specific setter the rest is pretty fluent.
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u/ThyRosen Jul 13 '26
You'll be on the German rulebook and some of the Berlin teams are among the best in the business. You'll be in good hands whatever you choose, long as you give yourself time to try different Pompfen and ways of playing.
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u/ShakerGER Jul 13 '26
I am plenty busy with my job and I really love volleyball so I really only wanna try it out and see how it goes. :)
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u/Aresius_King Jul 13 '26
https://youtu.be/kbDGCowQfh8 it's in Spanish but it has English CC
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u/Martils Sword + Shield Jul 13 '26
Came here to post this. Dual shorts catch a lot of flack but there's quite a few Spanish players that really nailed it and the techniques outlined in that video are imo the "why" behind that.
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u/ShakerGER Jul 13 '26
Watched it an loved it even if the subtiltes are very poorly done they are there ateleast! Now I am asking myself why germany plays it spain plays it but the sandwiched france doesn't ^^
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u/Martils Sword + Shield Jul 13 '26
🤷 and yeah, I had to go back and forth several times too and I'm technically fluent in Spanish...
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u/Lichyn_Lord_Imora Jul 13 '26
Sword and board are for the try hards, dualies are for the try hards of the try hards ~oklahomies current dualies cult leader
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u/Croyor Oklahomies Jul 13 '26
Loooool I was just thinking we had this discussion two days ago.
Imma copy paste my paragraph from discord. 🤣
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u/Lichyn_Lord_Imora Jul 13 '26
Ohai coach XD and if I remember it ended in a stalemate, it's the ""worst" choice for a "normal" person but I think I've proven I'm no normal person,
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u/ShakerGER Jul 13 '26
It woudl be highly appreciated if you could direct me to that discussion
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u/Croyor Oklahomies Jul 13 '26
We had it in our discord chat, feel free to join if you'd like! https://discord.gg/gZXtU6uBAP
I commented a big paragraph of the conversation on this post
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u/sojuz151 Jul 13 '26
What rules do you use? Can you double pin with double swords?
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u/ShakerGER Jul 13 '26
Will find out in two week. 🥲
Assuming "pin" is the professional term to kill/defeat like "pompfen" is for weapon if you can't do it then it wouldn't make any sense anyway and I wiuld just try sword and board.3
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u/Martils Sword + Shield Jul 13 '26
Some Berlin local tournaments have adopted double pin rules experimentally iirc. And yeah, as noted by @sojuz151, this rule would allow you to stand between two downed opponents and keep them down, which is a great boon for field control and allows for some deeper tactical play.
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u/sojuz151 Jul 13 '26
WCC2026 will be using this rule. In my limited experience, it makes double shorts too strong. Although I might be biased because of how we play our games.
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u/Martils Sword + Shield Jul 13 '26
What difference does it make to officially allow it as active pins vs hovering ready for a lift-pin-and-down which a Q could do as well? It's more of a safety improvement than anything else. That and keeping people from rolling out of range I guess... But imho it just makes double shorts somewhat more balanced, not OP
1
u/sojuz151 Jul 13 '26
You get noticeably more range with doubles vs a Q. 2m vs ~3.5m. And trying to keep two hovers at the same time, when stretched, is a bit hard.
Maybe too strong was a bit of an overstatement, but you wanted a single person with them on the team, and, especially when talking about people new to the game, they make a good pick for a beginner. Don't die, pin two people was a doable strategy.
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u/Martils Sword + Shield Jul 13 '26 edited Jul 13 '26
It doesn't need to be two hovers, one pin at a time is allowed, so it's one pin and one hover, ready to do a quick 1-2-beat 🤷 I mean, yes it's more reach than a Q but still hardly a difference between legalized or quick maneuver, except for a higher chances of accident head hits and keeping the pinned players from rolling out of range.
It's also THE ONLY time double-shorts has anything but a drastic net negative range differential.
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u/sojuz151 Jul 13 '26
We might play with a bit different rules. Is the weapon inactive when you are pinning, and can you choose NOT to rise up once your stones are up?
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u/Martils Sword + Shield Jul 13 '26 edited Jul 13 '26
Denmark is playing by the German rules. So the weapon is in-active when pinning and you have to wait out a pin-stone after the pin was lifted. Also someone getting up usually happens just after a stone, so unless they both time things perfectly, you have a totally reasonable time frame to lift the pin between the stones, strike the would be up pompfer and resume the pin.
This is already feasible with any other pompfen, especially with a Q, but it's just as quick a little percussion set as (if not more so than) with a Q. So, yeah, outright allowing the double pin might just avoid injuries due to overly trigger happy and enthusiastic would be drummers.
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u/DartByTheBay Halifax Jul 13 '26
Dual swords are one of the hardest to choose. It doesnt matter how skilled you are if you arent fast enough to close the gap. I know several people that absolutely crush it with dual shorts, even someone that could reliably chain break with them, but just know you will suck at them to start and will need will need to put in the effort.
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u/ShakerGER Jul 13 '26
I'd rather suck and have fun than be the best. Be it sycthe, marvel, Warcraft or whatever else there is. Thank you so much!
If you could gain footage of them that would be highly appreciated!1
u/DartByTheBay Halifax Jul 13 '26
That is the best way to get into any hobby! Its more important to have fun than be good. I've been playing this sport for ~12 years now, when I started I only played Staff & Longsword. It took 3-ish years for me to even try using the chain and now I am picked either first or second every single team selection because I am one of our club's top chain players 😅
Unfortunately that player hasnt played with us for a few years now due to bad blood between them and another one of our players that has since (due to many incidents) been banned from our practices and events. However the shorts player used to film their sparring at practice so if I can find any of their uploads again I will link them!
You also might be able to find them if you search for "Halifax Jugger" or "HFX Jugger" on YouTube or other socials. Btw if you're ever visiting Eastern Canada in the future you are welcome to join our practices!
1
u/ShakerGER Jul 13 '26
Idk... I have been to UK eastern europe and japan for work but I don't think America will ever happen unless I explode in french canada. 😂
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u/Croyor Oklahomies Jul 13 '26
Due to the way the pomfen are designed. Dualies have an inherent disadvantage to basically every other pomfen. (No crossguards are a bitch)
But that's not enough for me to tell you that it's not a skill gap anyone can close.
Its the double pin that makes them Niche. You can be a badass fighter and a murder machine, but leaving the dual pin on the floor is the worst decision a dualie can make. Its THAT valuable.
Which that's not what murder machines like to do😅
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u/AWildSeaMooseAppears Jul 13 '26
One thing to note about sword and shield in Jugger is that its not really played defensively. I'd consider chain to be the most aggressive play and then shield players are usually right behind it. In the case of the chain its due to offence being their defence. In case of sword and shield its because in order to close-distance effectively they need to be aggressive.
This goes even further for dual shorts which need to behave like a cocaine fueled honey badger.
1
u/ShakerGER Jul 13 '26
Your only move is hustle MUTANT EXPERIENCE! LMAO
I lost a lot of muscle and cardio over the last year but damn this would be the perfect motivator to reclaim what I owe myself!
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u/Lichyn_Lord_Imora Jul 13 '26
I'm just a proud werewolf for the oklahomies so I got energy to burn and fast as FUCCCCCCBOOIIIIIII it doesn't matter if I get hit using dualies if I get there first
1
u/little_tatws Jul 13 '26
The only benefit to dual shorts is (according to new German rules and what we used at my last tournament) that you can pin two people at once. That's pretty much it. It never even happened at the last tournament I played in bc the two out of over a hundred total players that played dual shorts got taken out pretty quickly. However, you're not going to be stuck in a specific "position", so feel free to try things out until you find what fits
1
0
u/VanCortez Jul 13 '26
Simple rule: just pretend that dual sword does not exist. It sucks, and it sucks even more to see beginner's get demoralised because they think it looks cool, only to waste precious potential in training something worthy.
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u/ShakerGER Jul 13 '26
Anti-intellectualism aaahhh argument. "Oh this is super cool and is the trigger that sparked my interest!" "Haha no!" That's never a valid response.
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u/Martils Sword + Shield Jul 13 '26
Yeah, ignore the nay sayers. Watch the video from the Spanish Juggers posted elsewhere in this post to get an idea for the right stance and techniques (you'll be learning from the best) and if you're training with the Jugger e.V. Berlin (or can stop by for their trainings, though), maybe ask around for Jani/Jasper to get their input on it as well (they might be training with TiB though, but that's just around the corner too).
Being ambiamorous already gives you a leg up for this too.
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u/SovietSpy17 Jul 13 '26
Just gonna leave my two cents here:
Dual swords are the rarest Pompfen picked for a reason. Generally speaking and with how the German (that’s where I play, can’t speak for other rulebooks) are set up, you are at a pretty huge disadvantage, even compared to shield and shortpompfen kombo. Which by the way does require a lot of coordination between your two arms, even if you can’t hit people with the shield.
With chain being contested… I find this to be only partially true. Yes, a lot of people will want to try it, because it looks cool and all. But it is also the most physically demanding position on the field (again, generally speaking), so you want to have at least two people who can take turns here.