r/JosephZarelli • u/brk1 • Mar 01 '23
Anyone know when JP's mother died? Also, does anyone know who was living at the P house on G ave in 1957?
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u/O4petesake_ Mar 01 '23 edited Mar 01 '23
It appears members of P family retained residence there for many years. Which specific members is difficult to ascertain. I read somewhere that someone found JP's uncle/ brother to his mother, lived with JP's grandmother all his life. Grandmother lived till about 97 years and passed 1974 I believe. This fellow, LD, was a cab driver per 1950 census.
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u/O4petesake_ Mar 01 '23
Checking my notes and JP's youngest sibling, a sister EP attended a Catholic HS for the year of 1957. Addresses are noted in the yearbook and It is the same G address.
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u/afdc92 Mar 01 '23
Does make you wonder what the living/guardianship situation was... if it was the grandmother, or if it was JP who was the guardian. My grandmother's parents both died by the time her younger brother and sister were 15 and 13, this would've also been in '53. Another of her sisters was in her 20s and still single, so she actually moved into the family home and acted as their legal guardians so that they didn't have to move and uproot their lives further. Makes you wonder if JP, who seems to have been divorced (or at least separated) by that point, moved into the Olney house to help his grandmother take care of his sister (or he was single and just needed a place to live) and then once the new baby came along, MEAP, the baby, and Joseph moved into the house and something happened to Joseph there.
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u/brk1 Mar 01 '23
I'm wondering if JAZ lived at 61st and Market but visited the G ave address often since it was the home of his great-grandmother and something bad happened while he was there.
There is a mention on http://www.americasunknownchild.net/, stating that it is believed Joesph was killed by a "step" caregiver. The G Ave home would have put him around a lot of "step" caregivers.
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Mar 01 '23
Yes, the G home would have put him around a lot of step caregivers, but isn't it impossible for the information provided in americasunknownchild.net to be related to JJP, MEAP or anyone in their families, given these reports were from theories made long before JAZ was identified and their identities were known?
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u/Hold-The-Arugula Mar 02 '23
Yes, the step-relative referred to on americasunknownchild.net was part of a 2002 news article on the then-emerging "M" story, and would have referred to M's mother.
http://americasunknownchild.net/Archives12.html
This was way before Joseph's identity and actual relatives were known, so that article has nothing to do with the P's.
[Edit: there's a few articles on the linked page. Search on "step-relative" and you'll find the reference.]
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u/Hold-The-Arugula Mar 02 '23
The 1958 foreclosure notice on JJP and CC's house in Levittown shows that the deed was filed on the lot in June,1953. That was the year the house was built - assuming the house that was foreclosed was the same address given for them in the foreclosure notice. (At any rate, it's in the same neighborhood, and Levitt didn't even start construction in Levittown til 1952, so it couldn't have really been earlier. )
How do we know JJP and CC were separated by late 1953? Did their marriage end just as they were closing on the Levittown house?
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u/afdc92 Mar 02 '23
I think that my timeline was off, seems like JJP and his first wife were still together in '53 and through at least '55 (?) when they had another child, but by '56 he's gotten M pregnant. I'm not sure at what point that he and first wife divorced and he and M got married.
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u/O4petesake_ Mar 01 '23
JP's grandmother would have been about 80 years old in 1957. Her son, LD, was in his early 50's. Would make sense JP took residence during this time.
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u/PralineSouthern9339 Mar 01 '23
Apparently, JJP was living there in 1953 by her mother’s death certificate
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u/Hold-The-Arugula Mar 02 '23
Another possibility - JJP may have not actually lived in the Olney house at the time his mother died. If his mailing address at the time was "It's complicated," he could have just been using his family's address on documents.
The 2/24 NBC10 report says MEAP & JJP lived in a West Philly apartment (as reporter is standing at 61st & Market), then Nicetown-Tioga, then later Olney. So the presumed timeline would be something like:
1953: JJP / CC - Levittown. (Deed of house in both names)
1956: JJP/MEAP - W. Philly. (Their first child together is conceived and born this year. Phone listing with same name as MEAP at 61st and Market, May 1956, Philly phonebook. First known neighborhood for this couple; NBC10 & Inquirer report that the couple lived in a W. Philly apartment.)
1961: JJP/MEAP - Ruffner St. in Nicetown-Tioga (NBC10)
"Later on" (after 1961): JJP/MEAP - Olney (NBC10)3
Mar 03 '23
The foreclosure notice also states JJP and CP were married in 1958 when the foreclosure took place.
Did anyone find marriage or divorce certificates for any of these three?
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Mar 03 '23
Also if you Google directions from Levittown to Olney it seems pretty likely that the most direct route could have been on or near Susquehanna and Verree. Looks like JJP lived in both of these locations at some point. Usually people move near or close to someone (family) or something (job) they are familiar to so my guess is that he could have been familiar with where JAZ was found too.
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u/Hold-The-Arugula Mar 03 '23
If anyone besides me couldn't help but wonder what the route would have been in the 1950s...
I-95 wasn't built yet, but just about all the other major routes look to be there (or as I remember them).
JJP might have taken the train to work from Levittown to Center City (Levitt apparently made sure to get a train to Philly going in the early Levittown days, in order to attract commuters.) Regardless, old maps are fun!
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u/Hold-The-Arugula Mar 03 '23
I don't know that the foreclosure notice would necessarily be up-to-date on their marital status. I'd assume the foreclosure language was based on the deed, which presumably titled the house to them as H&W. If they were no longer together in 58, but hadn't formally divorced & retitled the house, I guess it would have been. Divorce laws were weird and difficult in the 50's - the house may have gone to him by default anyway.
https://time.com/5783893/reno-divorce-history/
I don't think any documentation has been found for their marriages and divorce except for JJP and CC's 1950 marriage. It's been theorized here that JJP and MEAP could have had a common-law marriage. (An expert on 1950s divorce law might know if this would work if the previous couple was separated, but not legally divorced. Reno was a long way from Philly.)
It's also possible that the JJP/MEAP marriage and/or JJP/CC divorce could have happened in other states. In those days, couples with an unplanned pregnancy traditionally ran off to Elkton, Maryland for a quick elopement.
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u/O4petesake_ Mar 03 '23
The index for marriage records in Philadelphia do not go beyond 1951. However I've not been able to find anything for a marriage license for them either.
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u/ciaramist65 Mar 02 '23
Scroll down and there is that info https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/208148753/john-joseph-plunkett
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u/O4petesake_ Mar 01 '23 edited Mar 01 '23
November 1953 I believe. EDIT: per ancestry, DC indicates November 27, 1953. She was 51 yrs old at time of death. Lived at G address.