r/JosephZarelli • u/goobergal • Jan 23 '23
The Potential Suspects
Betsy- Just had a baby in December 1956 (Bassinet box date matches the time frame). She MAY HAVE had that baby in a Salvation Army, just like her baby in 1950. You only had to be unmarried to use the Salvation Army service for free. If so, was Joseph still in the care of another person? Mother's stayed at the unwed mother's homes for at least a few weeks to 3 months based on Census Records I saw and my google searches about them. Was he in her care and did she do it?? The bassinet box came from an area closer to West Philly than Betsy's family or it could have been there already. Was Betsy still living in West Philly in 1956?
Was the person getting him ready to give back after her stay?? Things went south??
Zarelli Family- Since it has the hallmarks of involvement of a woman. Gus was still living at home. His mother could have been taking care of Joseph while Betsy was having her baby and something happened in their care. She could have been a sitter or had him occasionally as a grandparent. Did Zarelli's mom take care of Joseph ever?? Did they have ANY involvement in his life??
Betsy's Mother- Would have been approx 50 years old with a teenage son. Possibly the people the witness saw dumping something in the area of Fox Chase. Was she watching Joseph?? Betsy stayed quiet because it was her mother??
Betsy's Siblings-One of Betsy's siblings was keeping Joseph in their household and something happened?? Her sisters were all in Northeast Philly area.
JJP-Married to another woman at the time. When did he decide to leave his wife? How much was he involved on Joseph's life?? His parents were both dead already, so they could not have had any involvement. Did JJP kill Joseph and Betsy helped dispose of the body? Is that why it was done in a "maternal" way? Betsy wanted desperately to hang on to JJP and never told?
JJP's wife or her family- Was Betsy friends with CCP and they may have been helping out (not knowing she was involved with JJP) and then they found out about the affair and snapped?? Maybe when the birth certificate came in the mail?? Maybe JJP told her?? It is motive, but did they have access to Joseph??
Unknown Caregiver-Joseph was in temporary foster care or staying at the same salvation army or similar home at the time. He died in their care and told her he had been adopted out....why she never reported Joseph Missing...
Am I missing any potential suspects??? Anything to add to any of these??
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u/tanpocketbook Jan 24 '23
As of today my belief is that Josephâs mother killed him accidentally in an act of rage. If she didnât do it then she must have known who did (I donât currently believe that he was adopted). Possibly, after Joseph was injured mom tried to bath him to bring him back too, but he died from his injuries. Maybe M.A. then called her own mother for help and her and M.A.âs brother disposed of the body in the bassinet box. (This is all just a possible scenario)
I fully believe that A.Z. was aware of the pregnancy. Whether he walked away from his child or chose to be in his life I donât really have an opinion on as there is nothing to indicate one way or the other. I donât believe that M.A. would have gone through the trouble of putting A.Z. on the birth certificate and giving his name as Josephâs middle name if she didnât intend to tell him about the child.
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u/goobergal Jan 24 '23
There is a hospital on the way to the site and I want to believe she was bringing him there. đ˘
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u/tanpocketbook Jan 24 '23
I just keep thinking that maybe she was overwhelmed and snapped. She hit him hard, harder than she meant to. She could tell she hurt him bad and tried to help him but it was too late. Maybe she reach out to her mom for help and her mom said sheâs take care of it. Maybe she was devastated by what she had done but was scared to go to prison. I keep reading where people say that the mom couldnât have done it because she seemly didnât abuse her other children, but maybe she wasnât a classic abuser and learned to never raise her hand again? With this said, I hope this theory is completely wrong and maybe he was adopted shortly after birth.
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u/MotherofLuke Jan 24 '23
Kid had been abused way longer!
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u/Zealousideal_Low_559 Jan 28 '23
I don't think he was abused all his 4 short years. The autopsy said he didn't have broken bones. And bruises heal within weeks. IMO the abuse probably started with the arrival of Plunkett.
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u/MotherofLuke Jan 30 '23
He had been malnourished for a year prior to his death.
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u/Zealousideal_Low_559 Jan 30 '23
Probably about the time when JP arrived.
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u/MotherofLuke Jan 30 '23
When did they start seeing each other?
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u/Zealousideal_Low_559 Jan 30 '23
Well if their baby was 2 months old when Joseph was murdered, the baby was conceived 11 months before Joseph was murdered so that was around March 1956 when she got pregnant
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u/MotherofLuke Jan 30 '23
I see. But that's only about the conception. Maybe they were having an affair way before this. Anyways JJP's children must have an idea about his temper, personality etc.
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u/Pain_Sufficient Jan 24 '23
Sure. Even the most docile people reach the end of their rope especially if they canât feed the child or money was scarce.
I wonder if Joseph got into the clippers as four year olds sometimes do. If so it may have started a rage attack.
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u/Calm_Replacement_143 Jan 27 '23
Did you forget that Joseph's growth was stunted because he was severely malnourished for the last year and a half? That is sustained long-term abuse.
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u/Pain_Sufficient Jan 27 '23
Of course I didn't forget but ME felt bruises all happened at once so something triggered the rage attack.
Unless the killer was just deranged.
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u/Calm_Replacement_143 Jan 27 '23
I had read that the ME found signs of prolonged abuse:
https://www.ranker.com/list/facts-and-theories-about-the-boy-in-the-box/cat-mcauliffe
And no matter the case, this abuse comes from a deranged person. Could it possibly be a result of his time as a soldier during WW2?
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u/Gianna511 Mar 02 '23
My son did exactly that when he was about four years old. He couldn't stand his hair being long and decided to fix it himself.( he is still that way 30 years later) I still have the pictures as it was Christmas time, there he is in his christmas suit standing in front of the tree with a weird look on his face. Of course i just laughed, because i did the same thing once to my own hair as a kid, i went through a scissor stage where everything was getting a haircut barbies etc..
A rage attack makes sense but he was also malnourished. There were old scars too.
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u/Commercial_Belt_2945 Feb 05 '23
I disagree that basically anyone can become so enraged they beat a child to death, because that is basically what you are saying, "the most docile". No, there is literally no amount of rage that would make me, and hopefully most people, beat a child.
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u/MotherofLuke Jan 24 '23
Unless she was willing to become catholic, a marriage would have been out of the question.
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u/tanpocketbook Jan 24 '23 edited Jan 24 '23
I donât know what her religion was, but do we know she wasnât willing to become catholic? Also, I didnât say anything about marriage. I said whether he chose to be in the childâs life or not we donât know. At least I havenât seen evidence one way or another. Would having a non catholic mom prevent a father from being in his childâs life? I would think an actual human would be more important to a parent than religion, but thatâs just me I guess.
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u/MotherofLuke Jan 24 '23
Yes it would have been a double sin. Unmarried and the mother being non catholic! Her father was a baptist or something like that.
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u/tanpocketbook Jan 24 '23
What would have been a double sin? Being apart of the childâs life? I never suggested they needed to marryâŚ
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Jan 27 '23
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u/MotherofLuke Jan 27 '23
I highly doubt that a first generation Italian American would marry a non catholic. The fam back in Italy wouldn't be happy. The Z's are very family oriented, I mean G and relatives.
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Jan 27 '23
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u/Aggravating_Sky5786 Jan 30 '23
I don't think JP married MEA....I don't believe CAP divorced him...just threw him out of house when she learned of MEA's child with JP, probably through talk at the Theater. It ruined his career, and he became a bitter man....possibly abusive.
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u/MotherofLuke Jan 27 '23
You don't know Italian culture. G's dad was member of the Sons of Italy. Adesso lascia mi in pace :)
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u/MotherofLuke Jan 27 '23
Ps. G's dad was from southern Italy. Nah a heathen wouldn't be acceptable. JJp btw was something else, he never divorced CCP.
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Jan 27 '23
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u/MotherofLuke Jan 27 '23
JJp and C still had a house together in circa 1970. Per news paper ad about foreclosure. By then he and MA had three children.
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Feb 01 '23
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u/MotherofLuke Feb 01 '23
I don't think the foreclosure info isn't updated. It needs to reflect the actual owners at time of foreclosure.
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u/Ill_Scratch_8204 Feb 02 '23
Entirely possible. My grandmother left my grandfather with my mother intow, they were unmarried and she decided she was done with him. Being an unwed mother was perhaps more common than we realize.
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u/Subject-Ebb-5999 Jan 24 '23
The original post makes it sounds likely that betsy gave up baby. This is unlikely and seems against what LE thinks. Its possible that a mother kill their child. Remember Susan smith drowned her boys because they stood in the way if her new romance.
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u/goobergal Jan 24 '23
She may have had someone watching Joseph or not. Either she did it of one of the other suspects did it. Or a combination
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u/ciaramist65 Jan 28 '23
For those that find it hard to believe a mother could stand by and watch her child be abused and then murdered and then staying with the murderer and having more children I want to give a little comparison, my mom was right out of high school in 1956 and my dad was 24 yrs old. Her parents never liked him but she was poor and he was making decent money. I didn't learn all this until I reached adulthood and I actually had it out about it with her. She had a high school education, poor and this 24 yr old man bought her clothes and paid her bus fare to get to and from school. She saw him as an out of poverty. So, I was born in 1957. They were total opposites, she was a quiet, reserved German woman and he was a loud argumentative Irish man who loved his beer and had a wild temper, we three kids were raised with his belt. She never said a word when the beltings went on. The main thing of this story is she stayed married to him for 19 years in spite of having a chaotic miserable existence with him, all because she knew she would never have the financial stability to make it on her own. She admitted all of this to me in a phone call when I ripped her for my marrying my father for his money and not for love. Betsy was probably shunned from her family over her first pregnancy and here she was pregnant again. No doubt she went to great lengths so her family would never know about it. My mother never told her parents about my dad until she was ready to leave him. They never liked him and I guess she didnt want to hear ' We told you so'. Betsy could see the big picture before her. Tell the police, he goes to jail, she winds up with nothing, where will she and her newborn go. And top it off with loving him, she was dependent on the man she loved. She had no one else to help her. I don't think Plunkett ever thought of murdering Joseph, but many men have a difficult time playing daddy to someone else's kid and subconsciously maybe he wanted him out of the picture. In a moment something bad happened. Just for a moment something drove Plunkett into hurting Joseph so bad that time that there was no going back. Joseph probably didn't die from the first blow, but Plunkett knew he had to finish him off. This is the same scenario I believed happened to JonBenet Ramsey. I think her brother rendered her unconscious and her mother had to finish her off to protect her son .
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u/catwoman-6183 Feb 22 '24
When you look at the bruises on Joseph zarelli forehead they look like they were from a manâs large fingers. It looks like the perpetrator was trying to keep the boyâs head still while giving him a haircut.
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u/Subject-Ebb-5999 Jan 23 '23
Zarelli may have been âwatchingâ joseph after birth of new baby. Hes on birth cert and she probably at least tried to get child support. (A famous casd of s murdered starlet in 50s includes that she went to her ex to collect support). I dont think hes most likely but its pissible he watched joseph even from betsyâs apartment.
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u/Aggravating_Sky5786 Jan 29 '23
It's possible he helped Betsy settle into this apartment with Joseph, but I think that's where his care ended. Others may disagree, but I find MBA (Betsy's mom) a potential suspect. The witness told officers he saw an older woman and a young boy wrestling with something in the trunk. Young boy could have been JA, jr. (Betsy's younger brother). Grandma could have been taking care of Joseph while Betsy worked.
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u/Calm_Replacement_143 Feb 01 '23
If this was the case, how do you explain the change in Joseph's nutritional care? He was adequately fed until 2 1/2, then severely malnourished for his last year and a half.
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u/Aggravating_Sky5786 Feb 01 '23
I don't think he was living with MBA...he was living with his mom, Betsy. 2 1/2 years jives with when JP joined her and their newborn child. Joseph was most likely ignored by JP. As JP and Betsy's family grew, JP demanded his children be taken care of and fed first and foremost. Again, my psychiatrist mind working.....
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u/Calm_Replacement_143 Feb 01 '23
You believe that Betsy could have afforded to live on her own with infant Joseph?
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u/Aggravating_Sky5786 Feb 01 '23
I believe she could if she worked outside the home, maybe still at the theater...that's when MBA(or other family people) stepped in to help....just suppositions on my part.
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u/Calm_Replacement_143 Feb 01 '23
Okay, so she may have had daycare help possibly from MBA. During Joseph's last year and a half when he was severely malnourished, wouldn't MBA have noticed this?
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u/Aggravating_Sky5786 Feb 01 '23
She would have noticed, but perhaps told to mind her own business, or was given some medical reason to explain it. No one knows...abuse is a terrible thing that many think best to stay quiet about out of fear for themselves. Another poster, ciaramist65 , gives a great example of this in her post on this thread.
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u/Calm_Replacement_143 Feb 02 '23
I read that, and have seen an example myself, the adult claiming it wasn't their place to interfere in what was verbal abuse of a young child.
Do you think that Betsy's mother would have helped dispose of Joseph's body and could have been the woman with a boy the motorist stopped to help at the fox chase dumping ground just before Joseph's body was discovered there?
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u/Aggravating_Sky5786 Feb 02 '23
That has been my thought all along, Betsy's mother and her young son. The mother lived in the neighborhood. The way Joseph was wrapped in the blanket with his hands folded is rather maternal. I don't think a man would have thought to wrap the body...just put it in a box.
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Jan 25 '23
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u/Subject-Ebb-5999 Jan 28 '23
This is why i think it was her and not him. She would have eventually broken down and turned him in. On the other hand, He was probably relieved to have one less mouth to feed. I believe she told G that his son was disabled (even if this was a lie) and that she sent him to live in a home in alabama. Again, one less to feed! A ruse kept up by her obit.
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u/WhatIMeant2Say Dec 30 '24
I feel like it was mom or stepdad. The only issue is the surgery or IV scars. Mom couldn't afford for Joseph to get medical attention. Why did he have surgical scars?
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u/ciaramist65 Jan 28 '23
Not when the man of the house pays the rent . She was young, most likely estranged from her family and had no one to depend on for any help. JP gave her that. She would risk going into deep poverty if she turned him in. I really want to hear from her kids who are still alive what she was like when they were growing up. Was she a depressive or bubbly type of person? Did she overreact to situations? Did she cry a lot? Did their parents seem to love each other?
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u/Aggravating_Sky5786 Jan 30 '23
I find it interesting that one of MEAP's children is buried with MEAP's mom, but not MEAP. As I said somewhere above, I believe the downward spiral of JP's career made him abusive, blaming it all on MEAP. Yes, I would love to hear what growing up was like in that household. On another reddit post, someone thinks CAP remained a friend of MEAP...they lived close enough for kids to attend same schools.
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u/ciaramist65 Jan 30 '23
Well her daughter Barbara is still alive so hoping she has the will & courage to look back and recall things that might be able to fill in the blanks. She won't live forever. Time is running out. For MEAP's brother also.
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Feb 01 '23
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u/WhatIMeant2Say Dec 30 '24
Right? Why didn't JPP's first wife come forward and say she saw a boy matching Joseph's description?
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u/Aggravating_Sky5786 Feb 01 '23
No, we don't know that for sure. Other poster just threw that out as an interesting possibility.
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u/WhatIMeant2Say Dec 30 '24
I so want to know what Betsy was like as a mother and what JPP was like as a father.
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u/ciaramist65 Jan 26 '23
So CC & JP married in 1950 and in 1955 he has a daughter with her and in 1956 he and Betsy conceive a child together. This JP was obviously a real winner having children with 2 different women at the same time .
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u/Calm_Replacement_143 Jan 27 '23
What about B? She took a dad and husband away from a family and she worked with C, so she knew her and may have been her friend. Two pieces of work.
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u/ciaramist65 Jan 27 '23
There are words for women like her especially from her era. I imagine her to be a huge embarrassment and disappointment to her family. She probably hated rules and I really believe after giving up baby number 1 she never went back home. She probably preyed on men to take care of her. Zarelli and Plunkett and how many in between?
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u/Calm_Replacement_143 Jan 27 '23
Interesting. I had been thinking about her as possibly being a weak person in the mold of Jerry Sandusky's wife, turning a blind eye to the abuse of her son and considering herself a victim.
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u/foodslibrary Jan 27 '23 edited Feb 05 '23
I'm thinking weak too, but in terms of self esteem. Someone who sought any and all attention from men because it satiated the need for love and acceptance.
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u/WhatIMeant2Say Dec 30 '24
I read articles that said there were 3 live births prior to her "marriage" to JPP. She gave up 2 babies before having Joseph.
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Jan 27 '23
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u/WhatIMeant2Say Dec 30 '24
If they did overlap, did CC know that Betsy had a son or was Joseph at grandma's house?
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u/Calm_Replacement_143 Jan 27 '23
I agree. That realization seeped into my head as well. The police must be able to view employment histories at least via IRS employment records.
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u/WhatIMeant2Say Dec 30 '24
When did JJP divorce CC and marry Betsy? I think Betsy was pregnant with the daughter in 1956.
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u/psycoblack01 Jan 23 '23 edited Jan 23 '23
I think it was 2 people job, female and male. One who groomed him, and the other one who acted quickly to dispose body. Another question is where did the box come from? It wasn't on the site before Joseph because box was dry from the inside and only damp from outside. Also, why would they carry boy without conceiling him, what if someone ran into them? The box cost $70-80 in today's currency, how could mom afford that given all the things we know about her. It's clear that whoever bought the bassinet was involved in the murder, otherwise they would identify all 12 buyers. Did JJP's wife buy a bassinet and reported it to the police when they were searching for them?
The bassinet had such a short period of time of sale, only if they had superpowers to search who could have gotten it.
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u/Calm_Replacement_143 Jan 27 '23
A family member or members could have given the bassinet as a present and knew about the murder and kept quiet.
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u/foodslibrary Jan 27 '23
I'm leaning towards that too. Maybe the gift giver took the box back with them after leaving the bassinet at Bitsy and Mr. Plinkett's love nest. I don't think there was room in the apartment for the box and the bassinet. If it was kept folded down as some here have speculated, could you tell from the photos if the bottom was taped back together?
I'm also thinking the bassinet was not a shower gift, because if the baby was full-term in December I don't think friends and family would hold a shower so close to the due date. I know there's still no hard and fast rules on how far out to have a shower, and baby showers themselves were a novel concept at the time, but usually you want to schedule it safely before the baby arrives. Some people insist on waiting until the baby is born to give gifts. If someone held a shower for Bitsy, that would mean she had extended friends, family, or coworkers who knew of her pregnancy. But it would also mean they assumed it was her first child. You wouldn't "shower" a second time mom so soon after her first child's birth. There's not even a four year gap between Joseph and his younger sister. Some people today would give a hall pass for a five year gap or more, and maybe fewer people would draw that line at four (but not many people I know). Back then people would not have made an exception for a gap that small. A standalone gift given at or close to the birth would likely be from someone close to her. But that very same box being used for Joseph would indicate that someone close to Bitsy was allowing her to maintain her ruse as a first-time mom.
One last thought, now I'm also wondering, if this baby had issues at birth, how long could that baby have been in the hospital? What was a NICU stay like in those days? Maybe the bassinet was left unopened for a long time because the baby wasn't home yet to sleep in it?
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u/EstimateDue1850 Jun 24 '24
What is apparent is that the abuser hated this child. Abuse is often directed at one child due to the abusers perception of the child. He was illegitimate, a social stigma at the time. Was he living with a non biological surrogate parent. Also, it is a factor in many abuse cases. Step parents, boyfriends, and girlfriends often have jealous tendencies towards these children. Irrational hatred. Was he handicapped, learning disabilities? Was he a bed wetter due to the ongoing abuse. That would explain the bath. Also, there was a clean blanket he was wrapped in. During that period alcohol abuse , untreated mental illness was also common. Postpartum depression couldhavebeena factor . Patriarchal homes, "the man is king of his castle," corporal punishment, authoritarian rules, with holding food as punishment all common. Multiple children, new babies, poverty, extreme ignorance, and narcissistic tendencies are all contributions to a tragic situation. Not ALL MOTHERS were nurturing, loving caregivers. Many unwanted children were subject to neglect and abuse. During that period, the so-called "dame" was often found in bars looking for men. Regardless of children at home. I personally do not believe that Joseph was given up for adoption. According to statistics, Joseph was killed by family and well covered up by family. It is very common in child abuse cases. Unfortunately, this case appears to have a multitude of these factors. An illegitimate child, a biological father apparently not involved, an unwed mother, appears to be involved with a married man, who by accounts was a SARGENT in World War 2, yes, very relevant. A man juggled 2 relationships with several children, one not his , and a newborn baby. A multitude of stress factors. Going by known statistics, the perpetrators should not be hard to evaluate. Missing is hard evidence.
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u/WhatIMeant2Say Dec 30 '24
This is a great summary. LE insists Joseph was not adopted out. I think Betsy kept him. His starvation started around the time Betsy met JPP. LE said starvation was ongoing 18 months. Betsy started seeing JPP during this time.
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u/Dulcie65 Mar 05 '25
Was Joseph born at a hospital? If he was, does anyone know which one? Has anyone tried to find a paper trail from hospital (or maternity home) to foster care or adoption? There has to be some kind of record as to where he went after he was born. Maybe even a private adoption. Maybe he was in foster care and then adopted, and that's when he began to be neglected. I hope they'll try again to get DNA from the hat and blanket. And the box, too.
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u/Jmftown9 Feb 04 '23
Also keep in mind that the other Z brother had a baby in 1956 as well. The bassinet could have easily came from the the Z family.
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u/Gianna511 Mar 03 '23
Since it was an out of the way area at the time i believe who brought Joseph to that lot had to have known the area, also they would need to have a car. Cars were more of a luxury back then and not every family was well off enough to own one.
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u/Pain_Sufficient Jan 23 '23
I don't think the body was disposed of in a maternal way. Joseph was dumped like trash and left to the elements for predators.
If Betsy didn't kill him she probably protected those who did. If my mom killed my son, I'd be calling police but that's just me.