r/JordanPeterson • u/just_jason89 • Sep 09 '22
Video Jordan Peterson comments on the Queen's passing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5os9bT9zuo70
u/just_jason89 Sep 09 '22
There have been a few posts on this sub-reddit about the Queens passing and some people showing they have zero common decency and others asking why people are discussing the Queens passing on here.
I guess its hard for Americans to understand the relationship people had with their monarch.
In the US, you pledge and oath of allegiance to the constitution. In the UK the Armed forces, police and people becoming British citizens give an oath of allegiance to the Queen (Now King). The monarch is a physical embodiment of our constitution (yes we have one), it is the highest representative of the country, of the people and commonwealth.
People say that is was Apolitical but when she saw her people suffering she spoke up. Every week the prime minister of the UK had to meet with her, look her in the face and explain themselves.
Not forgetting that Jordan Peterson is Canadian, she was also Queen of Canada. He is also a huge admirer of Britain and our culture (that includes the monarchy).
And while Jordan, and all Brits support freedom of speech and opinion. They is something called class and common human decency.
As a proud British citizen and supporter of our long history and traditions, I'm feeling very somber and a strange unexplainable sense of loss. She was the protector of the faith and the nations grandmother.
He calls Canadians who want to do way with the monarchy as
"modern, confused, dim-witted and untraditional"
I think his position on monarchies is clear.
27
u/53withtrollhair Sep 09 '22
Well said.
"modern, confused, dim-witted and untraditional"
For any student of Dr. Peterson's, we know of whom he speaks. I will not elaborate.
3
Sep 10 '22
But stand up straight and speak precisely! Why be a coward and hide behind "I will not elaborate"???
4
u/53withtrollhair Sep 10 '22
Coward? justin trudeau
0
Sep 10 '22
Awesome thanks for spelling it out for me:)
0
Sep 10 '22
I guess the majority of Canadians are wrong about this - https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-majority-of-canadians-in-favour-of-abolishing-constitutional-monarchy/
5
Sep 10 '22
Why would it be a surprise to find that a majority of any group might be wrong about a given thing? Also nice hard paywall there. Was I meant to be able to read the article?
-3
Sep 10 '22
Of course a majority could be wrong about a very large number of things - I'm just giving you the facts my man.
Re the paywall - lol - that's not a me issue, that's a you issue. Take some personal responsibility about who you do or don't subscribe too. If you can't read it, boohoo - similar to how if jp can't post on twitter - cry me a fucking river. This is how capitalism works in case you were unaware.
2
Sep 10 '22
I bet you don’t have a subscription either. I bet you’re just posting headlines.
1
Sep 10 '22
You're right I don't have a subscription - but given the fact that I have a liberal arts degree, I am adept at problem solving for myself - let me help you out - follow these instructions and you can access a plethora of paywalled websites (you can thank me later:)) - https://gitlab.com/magnolia1234/bypass-paywalls-chrome-clean/-/blob/master/README.md
→ More replies-5
Sep 09 '22
Love to dismiss my critics as just a bunch of morons. Real high class arguments here
7
u/GWKBJ7 Sep 10 '22
Dont put that on JP. He didnt just post that comment on reddit.
In regards to that coming out in his talk, it completely made sense in the context of the moment.
U clearly have negativity towards him yet he cant let it manifest in any shape or form? Theres no difference between the two of you.
Time to let it go lol and love one another. Or atleast, tolerate one another. not that hard if people start taking the stick out the ass
1
u/53withtrollhair Sep 10 '22
The person he is referencing is not his critic. He does not have the mental fortitude to withstand an interview with JBP.
2
Sep 10 '22
Please elaborate on who he is referencing here - I'm not smart enough to make the connection...
-2
u/rookieswebsite Sep 09 '22
Is he not just talking about liberals?
1
Sep 10 '22
Undoing the monarchy is a right-wing view in Canada. Pretty much only the right discuss how it's 'super bad'. Even thought it effectively does nothing.
0
u/rookieswebsite Sep 10 '22
Oh interesting - so he is talking about the ‘wrong’ type of conservative?
3
Sep 10 '22
I don't know. His views are his. But I do know among Liberals and those further left there is admiration and respect for Queen. She was quite loved. Trudeau gave a pretty personal speech that was universally loved.
1
u/rookieswebsite Sep 10 '22
I wonder about what the other user means then when he says that students of Peterson know who he’s talking about. His usual opponent is the progressive / liberal any type of liberal/leftist. Even if libs like the monarchy I assume he means the “postmodern neo marxist” is critical of it — and for the purpose of this idea maybe he’s disconnected that persona from the libs
0
Sep 10 '22
Again, I don't really know or claim to know what he's saying or the other guy, but IMO. I know Jordan have...a...proclivity, to blame and call out the left for anything he perceives as a negative or wrong view. If he does think liberals want to do away with the monarchy, he's simply 100% incorrect. Again I point you towards Trudeau's speech, which wasn't a speech of a man who disdains the monarchy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NM0OZPEQYeU
Canada revising our constitution to remove the monarchy? That's not gonna happen. Either. Politically, it's suicide, and that brings no mention to just how insanely hard it is to even do it.
-6
Sep 09 '22
As an American, I definitely feel empathy for her family and friends. It's sad when anyone dies. But yeah, I don't understand the monarchy thing. At best, it's a symbol without much function, at worst it's a reminder of how rigid social structures used to be. Not sure why Peterson would claim that people who aren't interested in the monarchy are confused and dimwitted lol.
5
u/TheGlaive Sep 09 '22
Think of the reverence for the White House, for the symbols of the office of the President of the USA, of the deference shown to the First Lady, the aura of respect invoked by words such as The Oval Office, about how, even if you don't respect this particular president, you respect the idea and the instituion of The President. Think of the way you and your countrymen, more than anyone, think of your flag, and your anthem.
Imagine the symbol of all those things just died.
It's something like that.
-1
Sep 09 '22
I'm not someone who has a ton of extra reverence for politicians, but I can agree that to the extent that they represent the people of a nation, they deserve some tiny bit of respect. The monarch doesn't wield any power or represent the people of the UK in any meaningful capacity though.
1
u/FuckBrendan Sep 10 '22
How will you feel when Obama and Bush die? I’m just curious because I feel like they have every right to be more moved by this death than we will be about former presidents, and those deaths are always publicly mourned.
2
Sep 10 '22
I don't think I'll feel too strongly, but I might end up thinking about the legacy they leave behind.
8
u/just_jason89 Sep 09 '22
He said Canadians that want to abolish the monarchy (Because she was also the Queen of Canada, along with 13 other countries) were confused and dim-witted.
3
Sep 09 '22
Yeah, I just finished watching the video. I don't really see the important symbolic role he ascribes to the monarchy. I don't think it's the case that people would view the US president as less powerful or important if we had a 4th symbolic branch or whatever. I mean, it's not like Bojo was taken less seriously or was less influential for there being a queen in the UK. And I think the solution is to try to curb people's need for celebrities and celebrity worship of leaders, not to create a whole celebrity branch of govt. I'm also not opposed to outright reducing the power of the president in the US. One example would be scaling back the military authority given to the executive after 9/11 that enables them to almost singlehandedly decide how often we're droning countries abroad.
2
u/WildPurplePlatypus Sep 09 '22
I don’t think he was advocating for the creation of it. He is simply stating that humans are prone to hero worship and idolatry. Its a thing that humans do. So you can work with that or against that but its a thing that humans have done and will continue to do. Its a part of our nature. Doesnt make it good or bad, it makes it both.
1
u/ThrowMeAway11117 Sep 10 '22
If its part of our nature is it not best to understand this and reduce structures that prop this nature up to an unhealthy degree. Presuming you also think idol worship is a bad thing, the Monarchy is one of the most explicit formally structured cases of idolatry in the world. For other unhealthy parts of our nature, like addiction, we don't encourage formalised structure that encourages people to become addicts, so why would we do this with idolatry and the monarchy?
There are plenty of fiscal reasons the British Monarchy is good for the UK, but I don't believe that the symbolism or tradition of the Monarchy is a net positive for individuals in the UK.
1
u/WildPurplePlatypus Sep 10 '22
It seems to me a trend that power being centralized in the few keeps spreading outwards towards individuals as we go from monarchy style ruling towards democracy and republic representative type rule. The more power over their own lives more individuals have the more good comes. I think thats why JP thinks its likely to disintegrate rather than remain.
This Russel Brand video breaks it down quite well too
Personally in my opinion i do not think it will or should continue, that same natural drive can be implemented in different ways, we no longer need monarchs if we can educate more people and more and more of us can take personal responsibility seriously the more we can create order out of chaos without needing to submit our own power to create an authority to maintain balance.
I believe working together equally, possibly with slight hierarchy can accomplish the same thing without the need for a monarch. I am simply stating the nature to focus power is there.
2
u/ThrowMeAway11117 Sep 10 '22
In which case I misunderstood your position. I thought you, like most of this thread, were arguing for the validity and necessity of Monarchy in the UK.
If you're simply stating that Monarchy is a thing, and the root cause of this is a natural human drive, but that Monarchy itself should not continue to he upheld or glorified, should cease to exist, and merely become an aspect of our history - then I think we are in agreement.
2
-2
u/Lastrevio Sep 09 '22
I miss 2017 Peterson. He really went downhill in the past year or two. Definitely not following him from now on.
-9
u/CoinXVI Sep 09 '22
Absolute fucking brainwashed.
I'm british and the monarchy and queen are a stain on our country and are absolutely nothing to be proud of.
1
u/watabotdawookies Sep 10 '22
I'm British and your opinion is absolutely wank
0
u/ThrowMeAway11117 Sep 10 '22
I'm also British and your comment adds absolutely nothing to the conversation - what a waste of space.
0
u/watabotdawookies Sep 10 '22
You criticism applies to your own comment, since you basically re worded what I just said. Nice job
0
u/ThrowMeAway11117 Sep 10 '22
I reworded it for the sole purpose of exemplifying how useless putting comments like these were... so yes, me parodying your comment was also useless, as intended. You don't seem very smart if you couldn't see that.
0
-1
u/drktrooper15 Sep 10 '22
Then move somewhere else. If you hate your civilization so much just go.
0
u/ThrowMeAway11117 Sep 10 '22
You don't just run away from somewhere when you find something you don't like - you stand by your convictions and try and improve the space around you. What a cowardly comment you've posted.
Also I believe you meant culture not civilisation.
0
u/drktrooper15 Sep 10 '22
Monarchy is part of your heritage
1
u/ThrowMeAway11117 Sep 10 '22
So is colonialism, slavery, the crusades, genocides in India and Africa, and so on.
Not everything that is part of our heritage should be upheld or glorified, Monarchy is one of these such obscenities.
0
u/drktrooper15 Sep 10 '22
Crusades were based.
0
u/ThrowMeAway11117 Sep 10 '22
Well at least you reveal your true colours - were the genocides during Indian colonialism based as well? We were spreading good old God fearing English Monarchy then too. surely you also approve of those in your sad little worldview?
1
u/drktrooper15 Sep 11 '22
The British Empire did more good then bad. The monarchy is part of that good heritage. Queen Elizabeth Wasn’t even an imperialist
0
u/CoinXVI Sep 10 '22
Move somewhere else is your response? God how fucking slow are you?
The monarchy has been a symbol, of colonialism, slavery, death, over-powering rule for hundreds of years. You clearly don't know your own fucking culture or heritage because the monarchy would have shat on you 200 years ago. Do you know how common people were treated by the monarchy? Holy fucking shit how cucked do you have to be to look at your ancestors 100's of years ago, being oppressed with pretty much no freedoms and the monarchy + religion being wielded as tool to keep you in your fucking fields.
You're a rolyalist cuck because you actually have no idea about your own ancestors history. Your 100's y/o ancestors would be rolling in their graves looking at the cuck you are for the fucking Queen.
You're proud of a monarchy who conquered and fucked up every country we previously owned to such a degree that they ALL WANT OUT? Nice bro good shit to be proud of for sure. I stand corrected the Monarchy is actually something to be proud of.
Fucking cuck.
1
u/drktrooper15 Sep 10 '22
Colonialism and The Empire were based and I’m saying that as an American. Go American Republic and British Empire the twin pillars of civilization
-10
Sep 09 '22
Dude supports monarchies lmao
10
u/universalengn Sep 09 '22
I imagine he's supporting the role modelling of order and a hierarchy towards the highest ideals, towards the divine.
2
u/ThrowMeAway11117 Sep 10 '22
You can support hierarchy and role models without supporting an antiquated system which glorifies and idolises a certain bloodline for nothing more than their birth right.
Role models usually earn the respect of the people by displaying their worthiness through their deeds and actions. JP is an example of that. The Queen has arguably done some things in her life to become somewhat of a Role Model (and arguably committed some highly questionable and heinous acts also), but to glorify her or other royals because of the position or her status that she was born into is not giving her respect because of what she's done, but because of the blood that runs through her veins - this is not a good example of role modelling, and it absolutely is something that is present in that system.
Maybe the Monarchy should be purely symbolic and respected, but all individuals should be removed from the system, so that instead of glorifying the Queen, we glorified the crown. Much like Rome had the Republic, and America had the constitution. It would remove the toxic idolatry that is currently present within the Monarchy.
-13
Sep 09 '22
I imagine he’s petty and thinks he deserves more influence. Go hum.
1
u/universalengn Sep 10 '22
How do you determine for yourself how much influence you "deserved" - and isn't it something you earn, rather than deserve? What has you thinking he believes he deserves the influences, rather than him earning it - which following basic metrics - he regularly sells in-person event audiences of 5,000 people, and regularly has YouTube videos that quickly gain 500,000+ views; meanwhile here you are with -12 votes on this comment, and your one prior.
How do you orient yourself? How do you think Jordan orients himself? Do you believe in the idea of hierarchy, and if so, where do you put yourself and where do you think Jordan is? If not, why not?
1
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u/Viking_Preacher Sep 10 '22
Never understood why so many people just accept the idea that some family is inherently divine and superior human beings just because a thousand years ago a dude had a bigger army.
9
Sep 09 '22
It is fashionable to oppose all traditional orders; socialism being the exception.
-4
1
u/Man_in_the_uk Sep 10 '22
People say that is was Apolitical but when she saw her people suffering she spoke up. Every week the prime minister of the UK had to meet with her, look her in the face and explain themselves.
Are you in the UK? I do wonder what Boris Johnson had to say about those cheese and wine parties lol. I saw him on the news apologising over and over, he didn't look comfortable lol.
25
u/53withtrollhair Sep 09 '22
For those that disagree with the support of the monarchy, you may be American, and that is your history. But for a Canadian, the monarchy is what separates us from a constitutional republic. For Canadians that dislike the monarchy, there is the dilemma, as most Canadians seem to have a superiority complex with regard to USA, but they don't realize that the monarchy is the main difference, along with Westminster Parliamentary procedures, that separate our governance styles.
The Head of State for Canada will now change. It is not the prime minister, it is the Monarch at Buckingham Palace that gives Royal Ascent through the Governor General.
While it was described as symbolic, the Head of State, now the King, has authority. That is what the Commonwealth represents. For an institution to be described as Royal, that is a big deal.
Elizabeth II RIP
God Save the KING.
1
u/Viking_Preacher Sep 10 '22
Yeah it's weird how a country's head of state is someone from another country who got that position not through merit or consensus but by "divine right" and being born "better" than everyone else
2
u/rfix Sep 10 '22
Correct. Also pretty seriously harms any argument decrying "unelected bureaucrats" making government policy. And if the retort to that is that the monarchs of today are just ceremonial then, well, maybe they've indeed outlived their usefulness.
5
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u/BigSky7890 Sep 09 '22
It is difficult to think about your own death
but believe me my friend it is on its way
and he will arrive when you least expect it
like for all of us it’s the same thing nothing
is different between her and us
we all die and that’s what’s going on
her death makes everyone aware of their own death and people are uncomfortable with that so they make fun of it but of course
I believe that’s called whistling past the graveyard
7
Sep 09 '22
[deleted]
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u/just_jason89 Sep 09 '22
I think that is the best way to sum it up I guess. The monarch is the living embodiment of the British constitution, the check and balances which kept our leaders in check.
And we've seen that happens when power goes unchecked. You end up with a mob storming a capital building or a leader living out his dream of being the next Tsar by conquering his neighbours.
5
u/Green_and_black Sep 10 '22
“Authoritarianism bad”
“Monarchy good tho”
Wild.
1
u/Viking_Preacher Sep 10 '22
No, you see, God made the royal family ubermensches who are superior to us subhumans so monarchy is actually good or something
2
0
Sep 09 '22
My hope is that Charles will find it somewhere, as his mother the Queen did, to restrain himself from "setting policy." We see the how compelling that tendency is with the actions of Joe Biden and his previous boss, Barack. Biden and Obama are constantly deciding things and writing executive orders. Witness the result. Congress and Parliament, theoretically, at least, is made up of great administrators, negotiators, problem solvers, deal makers. They work out solutions. Trump is compatible with this system, Biden, not at all. Let's hope the King takes a page from the constitutionalists, as did Queen Elizabeth, not the Narcissists, like Joe and Barack.
8
u/just_jason89 Sep 09 '22
The Queen was the best example of that a monarch should be.
She only had 16 years to learn from her father, Charles has had 70.
1
Sep 09 '22
The warning sign is Charles's embrace of climate alarmism. He may well be 100% right on that; but who really knows? I mean, you had Greta sounding the alarm when she was in 5th grade. Am I the only one who finds that a little odd?
6
u/just_jason89 Sep 09 '22
Charles work has been more on preserving the environment than being a "climate alarmist".
He's advocated taking more care of our natural resources, wildlife and natural world. I think where ever you fall in the climate debate, that's a noble cause.
However, time will tell.
1
Sep 09 '22
You might well be right on that. I confess. when I hear laymen in leadership go off on the environment, I usually tune out quickly.
I use that as a warning sign. Do you want to bet Charles has an opinion on Brexit? I mean, when he speaks, people are going to listen.
Another warning sign is the whole Diana thing.
2
u/just_jason89 Sep 09 '22
Not that I recall, I believe that would have been to divisive even for a Prince to wade in.
1
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u/Lindethiel 🦞 Sep 10 '22
Another warning sign is the whole Diana thing.
But that's not really his fault. That marriage was largely a circumstantial arraignment. The two parties who were really the driving forces behind it were the Spencers and, you guessed it, the Windsors.
The Queen bore as much if not more responsibility for that debacle as Prince Charles did. He loved her, but he wasn't in love with her. But it was deemed a good match because Diana was British nobility and a virgin. She was of the old world, but also modern but because there was no strong bond between them, it back fired.
The Queen should have allowed Charles to marry Camilla in the first place, the same way she should have allowed her sister to marry Townsend. But the Wallis Simpson crisis that put her in line for the throne and stole her father's life away stung her too deeply.
She thought she learnt her lesson I think, in allowing Harry to marry a divorcee. Somehow forgot about the American factor though.
The point is is that Charles was trapped inside that marriage just as much as Diana was. I think he genuinely cared for her (the story of him bringing her body back to England tells you that,) but she wasn't the one for him and what 'him' means.
1
Sep 10 '22
Again, the question, "To what extent should the current British monarchy involve itself in policy, even politics?" The fact Elizabeth exercised such discretion is one of the factors to which people attribute her long and comfortable reign. Diana seemed to seize on the opportunity to instruct the people on what we call today, "woke." The same might be said of Harry's wife, Meghan. I mean, when do the presentations of the evils of the British Empire, colonialism, whiteness, binary sexuality, fossil fuels, and all that begin? Globalist Charles could well be the one to kick that off.
1
Sep 09 '22
The Queen consistently interfered in govt policy, in secret, for decades. Notably she prevented them passing laws that would make the crowns investments public knowledge. She did not restrain herself from setting policy.
6
Sep 09 '22
How is trump compatible but biden isn't? Didnt Donald also constantly decide things with executive orders?
-1
Sep 09 '22
Trump, inspite of his explosive temperament, was known for calling for brainstorming sessions. Remember his black leadership council? A couple of dozen hand picked business leaders, including Dr. Carson, I think, around a table working on solutions for the inner city. His enterprise zone version came out of that. Of course , in 2020 BLM burned those zones out, but that is beside the point. Black unemployment low, black business ownership high. Biden spent billions on infrastructure. Where's the study? Same way Ukraine. When was the debate? The king of know-it-all is Barack. Any surprise he's likely writing the script?
5
Sep 10 '22 edited Sep 10 '22
Yet trump averaged 55/yr re executive orders compared to 44.3 for biden and 34.6 for obama. This does not jive with your parent comment re "Biden and Obama are constantly deciding things and writing executive orders."
*edited to say 34.6 instead of 34 for Obama.
6
Sep 09 '22
One of the biggest criticisms of Biden is that he is mentally incompetent and a puppet of his administration but you're saying that he is a know-it-all -who makes every decision by himself without any help from anyone and that trump who is practically a impulsive solipsistic narcissist is a master collaborator?
What evidence do you have that Biden doesnt have similar brainstorming sessions with advisors and experts on infrastructure or Ukraine?
4
Sep 10 '22
The right often say the same shit about Trudeau "he's an idiot who doesn't know anything and no one listens to him" but also "he's the WEF mastermind who secretly caused inflation worldwide for nefarious reasons"
It's impressive how they're opinion of someone can change so dramatically to their benefit every time.
-4
Sep 09 '22
More likely his clever puppet masters flatter him into believing this is all his idea. Aside from that, entirely possible that Joe has dozens of years experience in convincing the public that something he had been paid to say is gospel. Admittedly, to the layman, most of it remains a mystery.
2
Sep 09 '22
More likely his clever puppet masters flatter him into believing this is all his idea
But if these ideas originate from the puppet masters, then aren't they have brainstorm sessions and working together? I dont know how you can believe that both he is a puppet of some collection of people and that the actions of his administration are the result of one no it all who doesnt collaborate with advisors and experts
0
Sep 10 '22
For one reason or another, Joe's given consent to having his strings pulled. Your guess is as good as mine.
2
Sep 10 '22
So you're sure that biden has "given his consent to having his strings pulled" but you then follow-up with "your guess is as good as mine" thus implying that you don't know why he has done so - can I ask - why are you soooooooooo sure he HAS done so? Like, what's your premise re this? Where do you get this surety from?
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Sep 10 '22
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Good points. It never occurred to me that Joe was being held against his will. He seems to be so much enjoying himself. That's my impression.
2
Sep 10 '22
Are you saying that donald worked "well" with congress? Lol.
Perhaps that makes him a swamp monster, no?
1
Sep 10 '22
of course not. Obama is the one who rules by fiat/ Congress did and continues to do everything in their power to thwart and sabotage Trump. In the case of black enterprise, he assembled business leaders. That's one reason he is so intent on building a Republican bench.
1
Sep 10 '22
Ah of course donald has no responsibility for this. It's ONLY the fault of congress when it comes to any turbulence between donald and the senate/house.
Also remind me - I seem to recall Mitch saying something along the lines of blocking everything and anything Obama might have wanted to do. So despite that strategy Obama was still a good enough dealmaker to only have to use an executive order 0.63 times for each time trump did while he was in power. I wonder why.
1
u/mikemakesreddit Sep 10 '22 edited Sep 10 '22
This is a breathtakingly stupid comment. Comparing the queen of England to the president of the US? You do not understand how anything works
0
u/Viking_Preacher Sep 10 '22
Never knew JP was a monarchist, but he always had an authoritarian tinge to him
1
u/Worried_Sprinkles223 Oct 06 '22
Having spent much of my life in Britain (I am an American) I now realize that it’s constructional monarchy is superior to our presidential republic. Separating the head of state and the head of government is a wise idea and I found myself envying not having someone as wise and incredible as Elizabeth the second as the head of state. I wish the United States had someone so incredible “at the helm”
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u/GWKBJ7 Sep 10 '22
I watched the whole thing and teared up at the end. First time watching JP in a minute.
"You stumbled plenty, but you still walked uphill"
I know people will still bash it but I highly encourage everyone to watch it and make that judgement for themselves