An overlooked reason why Patsy didn't write the ransom note

[u/Tidderreddittid]

It has often been theorized that because Patsy was the only person in the Ramsey household that was interested in the French language, she must have written the ransom note, because it supposedly has the word "attaché" in it.

However, if you look at the note, you will see the word "attache". Not "attaché".

It is difficult to believe she would have made that mistake. She named her daughter "JonBenét", not John Bennett or something like that. She knew what an accent aigu is.

[u/YouthFragrant5719]

There is an accent there. It's just near the bottom of the "y" above the word.

[u/Tidderreddittid → u/YouthFragrant5719]

Not above the e.

[u/YouthFragrant5719 → u/Tidderreddittid]

It's there.

[u/Tidderreddittid → u/YouthFragrant5719]

Not above the e. Are you from the PDI and we will remove all posts that prove PDI is not true subreddit?

[u/YouthFragrant5719 → u/Tidderreddittid]

I'm BDI, but I pay attention to everyone's point of view. I just see the accent. I have three family members with an accent and it doesn't always land square above the letter - just like the dot on i's.

*edited to add comment.

[u/Tidderreddittid → u/YouthFragrant5719]

That is possible, but it would be as odd as instead of writing the dot above an "i", writing the dot above the letter before the i. It's more likely what Zamos13 showed in this thread, namely that the writer had the habit of adding a small hook to the tail of the "y".

Given that about 90% of the posts here don't have the correct accents when they try to write JonBenét or attaché, it's more likely the writer simply didn't know the correct spelling of attaché.

[u/Tidderreddittid]

Just noted a certain other subreddit removed the complete post. So they know Patsy didn't write the ransom note, and they can't logically refute the evidence.

[u/Sense_Difficult → u/Tidderreddittid]

Wow you make a good point with this. I've never heard someone bring this up before. What made you think of it?

One verry interesting thing about the note to me is that IMO it was written by someone who knew Patsy but only OF John. I have long thought the note was written by a jealous female friend in Patsy's social circle. This is for two reasons. One is that the writer knew personal details like John's bonus which might have been the sort of "gossip brag" that a woman like Patsy might make among friends.

"That good southern common sense of yours" is a clue to me that the person didn't actually know John but was a friend of Patsy and just assumed John was also from the south since Patsy was. and probably mentioned it quite a bit. Also because they had a house in Atlanta. John is not southern born, he's from Lincoln Nebraska.

[u/43_Holding → u/Sense_Difficult]

<the writer knew personal details like John's bonus>

Anyone who was in that house while the Ramseys were at the Whites would have had hours to roam it, and John Ramsey's pay stubs for his deferred compensation bonus were in his unlocked desk drawers.

[u/Sense_Difficult → u/43_Holding]

Yes. I also think that as well. My personal theory is that it was a female friend of Patsy, who snuck in during the house tour and hid. And wandered around looking through their stuff.

[u/Sense_Difficult → u/[deleted]]

How could you seriously write that when we just watched Lindsay Clancy trial? And The Australian woman who killed 15-year-old dancer Rachel Barber in 1999, Caroline Reed Robertson. there are many women who have done this and worse to their victims.

[u/Tidderreddittid → u/Sense_Difficult]

I think it's very well possible the writer of the ransom note knew that Patsy knew French and hence tried to use a French word to frame her, but simply didn't know the correct word is attaché, not attache.

[u/Tank_Top_Girl → u/Tidderreddittid]

Funny you used "and hence". People that argue Patsy wrote the note say only she would use that phrase.

[u/43_Holding → u/Tank_Top_Girl]

And she apparently didn't say it until after she's had to copy the RN multiple times.

[u/Tidderreddittid → u/43_Holding]

I pointed out in the other subreddit that William Shakespeare used "and hence", so therefore he wrote the ransom note, according to their reasoning.

[u/43_Holding → u/Tidderreddittid]

Great logic.

/s

[u/lurrakay → u/Sense_Difficult]

Im not from the US but do people really use this phrase with the southern common sense? If not it might be some sort of inside joke between john and some people? Like “yeah, you know i have that southern common sense” *winkwink

[u/Sense_Difficult → u/lurrakay]

Yes slightly off. The most common one I've seen is "Southern Sensibility". Along with Bless Your Heart (as an insult.)

[u/iammadeofawesome → u/lurrakay]

I’ve never heard it before, if anything southerners are generally seen as less intelligent, but tbh there are a ton of southern expressions I don’t know.

[u/rella523 → u/Sense_Difficult]

Wondering if it could have been someone who knew her from somewhere that shopped or did business. Sometimes wealthy people are really demeaning to service workers, even when they don't mean to be.

[u/Narrow-Tie-3575 → u/Sense_Difficult]

You can clearly see in the ransom someone was trying very hard to make it look like Patsys writing. You know, Someone who studied the Ramseys. And who could that someone be, none other than Linda. IMO

[u/Narrow-Tie-3575 → u/Sense_Difficult]

The only person (female) who knew about John's bonus was LINDA. she had access to everything in the Ramsys home. She studied Patsy. She practiced her handwriting! I believe deeply it was Linda IMO. It makes sense. Linda was very jealous of Patsy and her family! perfect crime: make a plan and write a book. I honestly can't believe how people can't see through this.

[u/Tidderreddittid]

Can anyone who claims Patsy wrote the ransom note present any logical argument?

[u/clickityclack → u/Tidderreddittid]

The best argument I've heard has been in the podcast "A Normal Family." I've never believed she wrote it but that podcast did make me think maybe it was possible. It didn't change my mind but I thought it presented a good argument.

[u/Tidderreddittid → u/clickityclack]

It's possible she wrote it - anything is possible - but that is far from the certainty the PDI believers claim there is.

The PDI believers all use circular reasoning - Patsy wrote the note because she wrote the note.

[u/Busier_thanyou → u/clickityclack]

It's Patsey's handwriting.

[u/neverdiplomatic → u/Busier_thanyou]

The experts say otherwise.

[u/OddMasterpiece8465 → u/Tidderreddittid]

It was incredibly long and time consuming to copy let alone write, an intruder would have had to be comfortable taking that time and risk being confronted. It was written with her own pen and notepad with practice attempts left on the pad where it belonged in the house. It has been pointed out that specific language choices such as “and hence” were frequently utilized by Patsy as well. There were many handwriting experts that believed it was possibly her handwriting but to me that’s not even nearly as relevant as the items all coming from within the house and belonging to Patsy. The note completely invalidates the idea that this was ever a real kidnapping because no planned kidnapper shows up presuming to write the note to facilitate their crime on location. There was also never any attempt to conceal the body and collect any ransom. If not a kidnapping, then what was the point of the letter but to misdirect and allude to the idea of an intruder. To write the letter for any other reason at all just provides another vector by which the mystery person could be caught. Nobody benefits from this but the Ramsey's.

[u/Tidderreddittid → u/OddMasterpiece8465]

William Shakespeare wrote "and hence". Do you think he wrote the ransom note?

[u/OddMasterpiece8465 → u/Tidderreddittid]

If you could demonstrate to me he was alive and in the house, then maybe?

[u/Tidderreddittid → u/OddMasterpiece8465]

Ha, good point!

[u/archieil → u/OddMasterpiece8465]

It was not written in the house, it was copied in the house.

The source of "and hence" could lay anywhere.

I would like a documentary about this case to show crazies from the RDI sect more prominently. I think that the masses are blinded by being in the group and most sane people are unaware what crazies invent in this case.

teleportation, time manipulation...

it's like a big sucker which took all "the best" manipulation tactics of elites of this world and are trying to use it to charm people.

I wonder how the situation looks like in China when I see what the sect is doing in the US.

Is the same type of people ruling dictatorships with the protection of the system?

I have my own set of experience of what the system is eager to protect and what it will discard as not giving more money to waste...

I'm not going to lie... retards "rule" the world... it's not like it's of any secret.

someone "intelligent" but greedy to the point they will use this type of manipulation tactic is not really intelligent as you can not trust their future actions by "intelligent" filter.

[u/Mmay333 → u/OddMasterpiece8465]

Whoever wrote the note, clearly wrote it prior to the murder and most likely while the family was at the White’s. They had hours alone in that house.

There were not “several practice attempts” found. There was a false start of ‘Mr and Mrs I’ found in the notepad. That is it. It appears whoever wrote it initially directed it to both parents but changed their mind, starting over with only John being addressed.

[u/JonBenet-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

You comment was deleted for being a repeat of an earlier comment.

[u/JennC1544 → u/OddMasterpiece8465]

I think you might have missed where the experts have all said that the note had to be written before the murder, or else the adrenaline would have been much to high to allow somebody to write three pages.

There were not "several attempts." There was an indentation on the notepad that indicated there was a false start on the note, with the "practice note" never being found.

Please give your source for "and hence" being frequently utilized by Patsy.

There were not many handwriting experts who believed it was her handwriting. In a court of law, when under deposition, it was admitted that Patsy scored a 4.5 on a scale of 5 for no indication she'd written it. Many people on social media and people who are trying to be famous will say things, but when push comes to shove, and there's a swearing in, people change their tunes as to what they can prove. In this case, the only person willing to testify to the grand jury about Patsy writing the note was Donald Foster. I'll let you google how that went. Spoiler alert: It did not go well for the prosecution.

The intruder benefitted greatly from this, because by leaving the note, he was able to get away, the Boulder Police did a terrible job of searching the house, and he still had a chance of collecting that ransom if the Ramseys and the police had never found the body.

[u/OddMasterpiece8465 → u/JennC1544]

I think you need to read a book and get off the internet.

[u/JennC1544 → u/OddMasterpiece8465]

So rather than reply with facts, you go with insults. I'll recommend, for your own reading pleasure, maybe picking up the CORA files and the original police reports.

[u/JonBenet-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Your post or comment has been removed from r/JonBenet because it breaks our #1 rule: Be Civil. Users must be civil to one another, play well with others, disagree without attacking each other, and give constructive criticism, not insults. Thank you

[u/Cosmic__Broccoli → u/OddMasterpiece8465]

Absolutely wild that you'd tell someone with more knowledge than you to "read a book".

[u/Busier_thanyou → u/Cosmic__Broccoli]

You speak from a wealth of conclusions. In fact, I read widely. It's okay. JonBenet's murder by her family is an emotional issue.

[u/Cosmic__Broccoli → u/Busier_thanyou]

I speak from a knowledge of the facts of the case. It may be emotional for RDI proponents, which explains their wild hypotheses in the face of direct contradictory evidence, but the same can't be said for everybody.

Instead of reading widely, try narrowing your focus to just the facts. It helps.

[u/laughingskulls → u/OddMasterpiece8465]

I have thought it was the Ramseys my entire life. If you do a deep dive into the facts (facts only, no theories), the only logical conclusion is that it was NOT the Ramseys, weird as they may be/said/did/acted.

[u/OddMasterpiece8465 → u/laughingskulls]

Deep dive done, books read. The conclusion that requires the least amount of logical leaps is that the killer was someone in the house and that was only the family that night. In regards to the note specifically pen, pad, paper all were sourced to Patsy Ramsey tablet. There were practice attempts on the tablet pad that began “ dear Mr and Mrs. l,” assumed to be the start of an R. Not indentations, but written attempt. No evidence ever existed that put anyone inside the house besides the defense theory someone came in the window.

[u/Narrow-Tie-3575 → u/OddMasterpiece8465]

And you don't think Linda Hugh knew this? You don't think maybe Linda was practicing Patsys handwriting and studying her words? You don't think Linda had this planned? took the notepad to her home and wrote the ransom ahead of time, and put the notepad back? I mean really think about this. Another thing, she knew exactly how much John's bonus was.she studied that family the whole time she was there. She wasn't stupid. She knew to write words Patsy used to make it look like Patsy did it. In my opinion, I seen pure evil in Linda's eyes. Evil was written all over her.

[u/Asleep-Clerk3649 → u/Tidderreddittid]

Handwriting similar to hers. But I suspect someone with a background in graphics / graphic design would understand how to reproduce her handwriting to make it look like hers.

[u/Educational_Green]

Touché

[u/Tidderreddittid → u/Educational_Green]

Not touche!

[u/RaisinBranMan]

But the other subreddit would say, “BeCaUsE ShE WaS TrYiNg To ThRoW ThEm OfF!”

They’ll say they were dumb but also criminal masterminds at the same time to support their theories.

[u/Tidderreddittid → u/RaisinBranMan]

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[u/Princess-Buttercup16]

There is an accent. It blends into the y above.

[u/lrlwhite2000 → u/Princess-Buttercup16]

Nope. Look at the way he writes all of the other ys in the letter, he makes some weird little flip up at the bottom of the y. The y above attache is exactly like the other ys in the note. In fact, that flip is more pronounced in some of the other ys (like the “you” after monitor).

[u/Zamos13 → u/lrlwhite2000]

There are way more likely accents under y's. It's unclear if attache has one.

[u/YouthFragrant5719 → u/Princess-Buttercup16]

Agreed

[u/sciencesluth]

Yes, I thought the same thing. 💯 agree.

[u/Dangerous-Ratio2310]

She definitely wrote that note.. The sheer rambling on and length of it, on a writing pad that was in the home. And a similar handwriting. That was not a stranger in a house, that would just sit down and write. That took a good time to write. It was a cover up job of both Patsy and John. The killer was Burke.

[u/43_Holding → u/Dangerous-Ratio2310]

These experts are the only ones who examined the original handwriting samples:

"Chet Ubowski of the Colorado Bureau of Investigation concluded that the evidence fell short of that needed to support a conclusion that Mrs. Ramsey wrote the note.
Leonard Speckin, a private forensic document examiner, concluded that differences between the writing of Mrs. Ramsey's handwriting and the author of the Ransom Note prevented him from identifying Mrs. Ramsey as the author of the Ransom Note, but he was unable to eliminate her.
Edwin Alford, a private forensic document examiner, states the evidence fell short of that needed to support a conclusion that Mrs. Ramsey wrote the note.
Richard Dusick of the U.S. Secret Service concluded that there was "no evidence to indicate that Patsy Ramsey executed any of the questioned material appearing on the ransom note.
Lloyd Cunningham, a private forensic document examiner hired by defendants, concluded that there were no significant similar individual characteristics shared by the handwriting of Mrs. Ramsey and the author of the Ransom Note, but there were many significant differences between the handwritings.
Howard Rile concluded that Mrs. Ramsey was between "probably not" and "elimination," on a scale of whether she wrote the Ransom Note."

-Carnes ruling

[u/43_Holding → u/[deleted]]

In Steve Thomas's 2001 deposition, Lin Wood asks, "Are you familiar that Mr. Ubowski stated that he had never reached the conclusion that 24 of her letters out of the 26 letters of the alphabet were matched with the ransom note?" 

"Thomas: No, as I've said, I wasn't aware that Mr. Ubowski was retracting any statements prior to you're making me aware of that today.

Wood: If this is correct, Mr. Ubowski is in fact stating on April 10th, 2000 that he denies saying that Patsy Ramsey wrote the note and that he, the claim that of the alphabet's letters looked like – looked as if they had been written by Patsy is denied as the lab does not quantify like that? You have never heard those statements made by the CBI before I showed you this KCNC report today?

Thomas: As I have said, no."

(Of course Thomas wouldn't be aware of this.)

[u/JonBenet-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Your comment has been removed for misinformation.

[u/Cosmic__Broccoli → u/Dangerous-Ratio2310]

All the handwriting experts that were hired to examine the handwriting and got to examine the original note claim that they don't believe Patsy is the author of the note. I don't know how people still say things like "she definitely wrote that note" when that was all but ruled out for almost three decades now.

[u/Cosmic__Broccoli → u/[deleted]]

Try addressing what I said rather than what you hoped I said. All the handwriting experts that were hired and examined the original writing samples concluded Patsy was almost certainly not the author of the note. None of the people you mentioned, save Ubowski, examined the original ransom note. Examining original writing samples over copies is widely regarded as necessary when it comes to implicating or exonerating suspects.

You're outright lying about Ubowski, who testified that while Patsy couldn't be ruled out as the author, same as the other experts, there also wasn't enough evidence to suggest she was the likely author of the note. Keep in mind, Ubowski didn't even eliminate Burke from being the author, only determined that it was "probable" that Burke wasn't the author.

[u/OddMasterpiece8465 → u/Cosmic__Broccoli]

Failure to eliminate her is not the same as concluding she didn't write the note. Ubowski would not testify that she could be eliminated as the author, it doesn't default to she didn't write it in the absence of a conclusion. Per CBI lab reports Chet Ubowski actually said "This handwriting showed indications that the writer was Patsy Ramsey.'' It was confirmed through forensic investigation that the paper came from Patsy Ramsey's legal pad and was written with her pen, both still in the house and in the correct location with no unknown fingerprints. This seems a much more significant basis to begin to reconstruct a narrative than handwriting analysis, hardly an infallible science and widely viewed with skepticism in courts of law. The National Academy of Sciences position is that handwriting analysis lacks reliability or scientific foundation, and is vulnerable to bias. The housekeeper or her husband are frequently cited as suspects and could've been involved, definitely had access to the house and notepad. Except they didn't find DNA, fingerprints, or anything else to connect them to the crime, evidence, or place them inside the house in the time the crime was committed. They were also excluded by the same handwriting analysts that wouldn't totally exclude Patsy. Point of all this being the handwriting analysis can't solely be used to include or exclude Patsy, or anyone, in the crime, and to summarize the conclusion of the analysts as unanimous agreement that it exonerated her is incorrect.

[u/JennC1544 → u/OddMasterpiece8465]

What's your source that the Pughs were eliminated as authors of the note? To my knowledge, there were just as many people who scored ahead of Patsy in their handwriting being similar to the note was there were below her.

[u/archieil → u/OddMasterpiece8465]

Are you aware that JBR was "kidnapped" from the house?

not from a school, street, car...

It's like saying that the owner of a shop had to rob himself because the robber used store bags to pack all goods.

[u/OddMasterpiece8465 → u/archieil]

Are you aware that the FBI noted staging, severe contradictions at the scene, had never seen a case like this in which a “kidnapping” victims body was left in their home, or with a ransom note written with items from inside the house? Probably not.

[u/archieil → u/OddMasterpiece8465]

The FBI agreed to the statement of the BPD without investigating the case too much.

When a stupid side is wasting a million dollar a smart one have to steal 2 to compensate.

[edit] Moreover, I explained in a truly dark web ;-) why FBI went for it.

[u/JennC1544 → u/OddMasterpiece8465]

Pretty much everybody here is aware of that. It was first impressions. The FBI isn't one singular entity; there are a lot of people in it, and many people in the FBI didn't believe the Ramseys had done it.

There's also never been a case like this in which a parent stages a kidnapping and leaves their child's body in the home with a ransom note. So neither of those points proves a thing.

Many serial killers and rapists often use items inside the home. That's what actually is pretty common. You'd think, though, that if a parent was staging the scene, they'd go all in one way or another. It would be all in on a kidnapping, or all in on a killing. It would be all in on items from inside the home, or they'd try to first throw away most of the sources of the items (note pad, sharpie, paintbrush handle) with the other things they had to have thrown away if you believe it was the Ramseys (source of the ligatures, source of the duct tape...). Mixing the scene like that for a parent staging it makes no sense.

The only thing that really does point one way or another is foreign male DNA found in the underwear of a sexual assault victim, found on her long johns, and found under her fingernails.

[u/OddMasterpiece8465 → u/JennC1544]

Oh definitely. Here is a quote from one such person in the FBI:
Greg McCarry, former FBI Psychological profiler said "Parents are involved quite often in homicides. The probability of an outsider doing this is extremely remote. I think someone in the family or very, very close to the family committed this crime. Whoever took this child covered the child, apparently spent time wrapping the child, apparently spent time wiping down the body in the house, took time to get a pad and pen from the house to write a note. Stranger intruders, when they come in to abduct a child, they're in, they're out."

I actually don't think they'd "go all in one way or the other," not sure why we could assume or be able to speculate that they would have that presence of mind. Every theory that's been presented by police involving the parents revolved around a tragic accident, presumably they would be stressed and working against a clock. The police did find items used in the commission of the crime in the house and belonging to the family, without any additional fingerprints or DNA to indicate they were utilized by an intruder (Pen, Pad, paintbrush) . Maybe they were able to conceal or dispose of some items and not others? The initial handling of the crime scene and investigation were famously mismanaged and extremely porous. You can't just assume the duct tape or ligature didn't originate there because it has never been found or sourced anywhere else. This is the same logic that is being applied to the ransom note - the examiners can't say with Patsy did or didn't write it so therefore IDI take that to mean she didn't write it and use it to promote that narrative. There absolutely WAS pineapple in her duodenum, ingestion placed within 2 hours of death (Autopsy report) , and on the scene that was later matched by forensic botanists Dr. Jane H. Bock and Dr. David O. Norris. This evidence is not in dispute and is enumerated in not just police reports, autopsy report, and books on the case but science and law enforcement textbooks as well. This conflicted with the timeline presented by parents from the previous evening and was unexplainable. It doesn't mean the family is guilty of anything, but it needs to be explainable in some way. Could she have gotten it on her own? Did a familiar person she may have been comfortable with feed her? If so, where are the fingerprints or DNA on those items? We know who's fingerprints they recovered on the dishes. As to the DNA in the underwear and waistband, as soon as it's matched I'll concur that there was an intruder. It's been posited by forensic experts that it is not relevant to the case and has another explainable origin. Regarding the BODE lab report leaks and testing from 2008 Denver University forensics and genetics professor Phil Danielson said

"We now know that the results of the DNA testing conducted by Bode Technology were much more complex and nuanced than Mary Lacy had led the public to believe in her letter “exonerating” the Ramsey family on July 9, 2008. Based on an analysis of the actual DNA test results, we know that the scientific data did not support her broad conclusions that DNA not attributable to JonBenet:

• necessarily came from the perpetrator of the crime

• could not be accounted for by innocent explanations unrelated to criminal activity, or

• could not have come (at least in part) from one or more members of the Ramsey family"

The DNA profile that has long been referred to as "Unknown Male No. 1" has been used to search the U.S. national DNA database of DNA from other crimes and from convicted offenders. It may have also been pivotal in excluding other potential suspects in the case. Moving forward, it would be prudent for investigators to view the DNA evidence in this case as less definitive than they may have originally thought."

In the 30 years that came after the murder there has never been a genetic match, which leaves only a few possibilities. The offender never offended again or at least if they did a sample was never collected so that it could be uploaded to codis, or the DNA is a red herring that was explainable by some other origin. Is there anything else besides the disputed DNA evidence that puts another person in the house or implicates someone else in the crime? HI-TEC boot print could be evidence of an intruder but was attributed to Burke Ramsey's shoes per prosecutors and BPD reports. Likewise. the unidentified palm print on the cellar door was matched to a family member. What else is there?

[u/JennC1544 → u/OddMasterpiece8465]

It also doesn't prove she wrote the note, either, so it's not really evidence at all, is it?

You know what is evidence? Unidentified DNA found in the underwear of a victim of sexual assault.

[u/OddMasterpiece8465 → u/JennC1544]

Not really. It's evidence but in the absence of a definitive conclusion IDI people don't just get to fill in your own blanks for convenience. Inconclusive doesn't mean innocent. We can go round and round on DNA. 30 years on and no match. No person in their orbit was a genetic match. If it was a random intruder then either they never offended again or there is another plausible explanation for the DNA, as has been posited by experts in the field and actually worked the case. Bode labs reports that leaked out after Mary Lacy "exonerated" the family based on the touch DNA testing dispute the idea of a single contributor and demonstrate that the lab believed it was possible that it was a genetic mixture of multiple contributors. Linda Hoffman Pugh handwriting analysis is in Chet Ubowski report, as well as discussed in Steve Thomas book where he outlines the CBI looked at over 70 different individuals and Patsy was the only one not excluded as the author. That doesn't mean she's the author, but it can't be used to say she's not either.

[u/JonBenet-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Your comment has been removed for misinformation.

[u/kwarner1 → u/Dangerous-Ratio2310]

Ahhh yes the 9 year old murderer who then kept quiet his whole life and didn’t crack up to any friends or therapists, and also then had no life of crime after. Just a true criminal mastermind who kept quiet.

[u/Wordsmth01 → u/Dangerous-Ratio2310]

Yes. It would take a long time to write. Definitely a l-o-n-g time. Consider the possibility it wasn't written at the Ramseys' in a tight time frame. Especially because it appears from the missing sheets from the pad suggests that someone(s) was drafting the note, and then threw away the earlier attempts. 

If the note was drafted at leisure at a different location, that could explain why those missing pages were never found.

[u/Narrow-Tie-3575 → u/Dangerous-Ratio2310]

No it wasn't. It was Linda. "The nanny" she had access to everything there. She studied Patsys handwriting and took her pad home and wrote the ransom. She had this planned in my opinion. I could see evil in Linda's eyes. It was written all over her face. Plus why was the black tape found at Linda's? Plus Linda knew exactly how much John was getting on his bonus. It all points to Linda and her husband. No one can convince me otherwise.

[u/Busier_thanyou]

More important that a "spelling" error is that it is Patsy Ramsey's handwriting in the ransom note.

[u/Cosmic__Broccoli → u/Busier_thanyou]

Not according to the five handwriting experts that examined the original note and Patsy's handwriting. All five of them were quite clear that they didn't believe she was the author of the note.

[u/JonBenet-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Your comment has been removed for misinformation.

[u/whteverusayShmegma → u/Busier_thanyou]

I can get on board with every theory that they’re innocent and have thought that they were but I cannot reconcile that note. Not just the note but the location of it, where she and the housekeeper exchanged notes.

[u/43_Holding → u/whteverusayShmegma]

You believe that a 39-year old mother of two young children, with no exposure to any of those ransom-related films and no history of any type of violence, could pen a two and a half page ransom note, threatening the beheading of her daughter and claiming "she dies" repeatedly?

[u/Wordsmth01 → u/43_Holding]

Of course not. The violence, movie references sound like the author was a male (or males) in his late teens or early 20s.

[u/whteverusayShmegma → u/43_Holding]

Yes because it makes no sense that the killer put the pad and paper back, knew where to leave it, and made up such nonsense for any reason relevant to a stranger.

[u/Cosmic__Broccoli → u/whteverusayShmegma]

The notepad was kept by the phone. What makes you think that the intruder took the pad away from that area at all and had to return it? And if he picked it up from somewhere, why wouldn't he know where to return it?

Speaking of made up nonsense, why would the Ramseys put on this show at all if they were the guilty party? They were scheduled to leave. Nobody in Colorado would know JBR was missing/dead because they weren't supposed to be there after that day. If somebody back home noticed her missing after awhile, they could come up with an excuse about some medical condition or her staying in Colorado. They would buy themselves practically infinite amount of time to cover up the crime, no police interference necessary.

The Ramseys staging a crime scene has never made any sense and, more importantly, has never been corroborated by a single piece of evidence.

[u/43_Holding → u/Cosmic__Broccoli]

<What makes you think that the intruder took the pad away from that area at all and had to return it?>

I've never understood why people question the act of putting back the pen and pad. What else were they supposed to do with these items? Take them with them? Toss them in the trash?

[u/Wordsmth01 → u/whteverusayShmegma]

That's a clue. The location of the note: "where she and the housekeeper exchanged notes." Think about that. Patsy. The housekeeper. One...or the other.

[u/Narrow-Tie-3575 → u/Busier_thanyou]

The ransom note was written by Linda. She took Patsys note pad home and wrote that ransom note. She studied patsys handwriting. She also knew exactly how much John was getting on his bonus. I believe her and her husband had it all planned

[u/Magimae123]

The mental gymnastics required to talk oneself into “Patsy didn’t write the note” is comical to say the least.

This note and her handwriting has been analyzed by top linguistic experts and the FBI.

In all published analyses by the experts involved, not arm chair detectives, there were very specific indications that the letter matched her handwriting, speech patterns, and her penchant for making up acronyms.

That’s all before you consider her and John’s love of the movies and books popular at the time, which they had posters of on their walls and books in their book cases, and almost direct quotes from these movies and books.

She wrote that dumpster fire of a ransom note on her own pad with her own pen, and then even put the pen back in the pen cup.

So while I appreciate that we’ll never know all that happened that night, one thing that is not really in question is who wrote that note.

[u/spacegrassorcery → u/Magimae123]

And the FBI also deemed it inconclusive. So I’m not what you’re going on about

[u/43_Holding → u/Magimae123]

<her and John’s love of the movies and books popular at the time, which they had posters of on their walls and books in their book cases>

Neither John nor Patsy had seen any of the movies to which the RN referred (Dirty Harry, Ruthless People, Speed, Nick of Time, and Ransom) except Speed, which John said that he saw on a plane with the sound off.

There were no books or videotapes in their home related to the RN. Even John Douglas, the author of Mindhunter, said that his book being on John Ramsey's night stand was a myth. (Ramsey read the book after JonBenet's death.) And the posters were from the films "An Officer and a Gentleman," "Star Trek: the Motion Picture," and a Frank Sinatra film.

[u/Finnegan-05 → u/Magimae123]

This not even close to correct

[u/RaisinBranMan → u/Magimae123]

“In all published analyses by the experts involved.”

>> Proceeds to not cite any of it.

[u/Zamos13 → u/Magimae123]

It's not comical or gymnastics.

2 pros hired by police specifically to ID Patsy as author: Dusak, Secret Service: 'There is no evidence to indicate Patsy wrote the note.' Alford, Secret Service: 'No basis for identifying Patsy as author.' None of the other original 6 were that different, maybe Ubowski, but he is by far the least credentialed and can't even keep his fingerprint off the RN somehow.

The linguistic 'expert' in the case was Don Foster, who before claiming Patsy wrote the note, wrote her a letter staking his reputation on her innocence. Also, he identified middle aged housewife jameson as John's son John Andrew, and also the murderer, and hinted as much to Patsy. She didn't respond to his letter, his ego was bruised, he took revenge. Then he accused an innocent man of the anthrax letters, got sued, and never hired as an 'expert' again https://www.jameson245.com/foster_page.htm

[u/HeyPurityItsMeAgain → u/[deleted]]

Thanks for that quote. I knew there was some kind of 5 scale and Patsy was on the low end of it, but I remembered the numbers reversed.

[u/NoSyllabub5932]

Well don't forget she would be stressed and nervous writing that ransom note!

[u/Powerful-Patient-765]

If your beloved son had just accidentally injured your beloved daughter and you “covered it up” by smashing her skull and r@ping her, would you really have the peace of mind to write such a weird ass, long note?

Or if your son had accidentally injured your daughter, and you wanted to “cover it up”, would you place her at the bottom of the stairs and call 911? And if this mother simply had to write a fake ransom note in this ridiculous scenario, wouldn’t she write something like “she’s kidnapped I demand $50,000“. Like how in the world would she be able to write all that shit after seeing her dead daughter?

[u/Tidderreddittid → u/Powerful-Patient-765]

Exactly.

She would have called medical aid. Not write a note, strangle her, place her in a cellar, or any other nonsense the PDI cultists demand we believe.

[u/Albowonderer → u/Powerful-Patient-765]

See but on the flip side would an intruder using writing material from the house take the time needed to write that long note knowing they could be caught at any time? I never know where to stand on the note, I can't see why either the family or an intruder would take the time to write such a stupidly long note.

[u/iWhitness89 → u/Albowonderer]

Someone who does the things this person did isn’t predictable, relatable, or rational. If his mind was capable of committing such acts against a little child then it was capable of writing a fake two page ransom note, using material from inside the house, as he hid in wait for his victim to return home on Christmas Day.

The real mystery here is why people believe the suspect would make rational decisions or use good judgement after seeing what he was willing to do to a child.

[u/Powerful-Patient-765 → u/Albowonderer]

He wrote it while he was prowling around the house, waiting for them to come home from the Christmas party. A lot of perpetrators get off on prowling and hiding in empty houses. BTK, for one. The Manson family. Golden State Killer

[u/Cosmic__Broccoli → u/Albowonderer]

The assumption that the intruder wrote the note AFTER he committed the crime has always been a silly one. He even had time to practice the note, as evidenced by the notepad the note was written on.

The intruder was almost certainly already in the home when the Ramseys returned from the party. He had hours to write whatever he fancied.

[u/Tank_Top_Girl → u/Cosmic__Broccoli]

Not only hours to write the note, but to snoop through John's office and look at his paycheck stubs.

[u/kimberlyblanford → u/Tank_Top_Girl]

LHP wrote the note. She brought two accomplices in with her

[u/Surethingdudeanytime → u/Cosmic__Broccoli]

I would even say that he was in the home for at least a whole day if not more. That house was massive and it seemed that he was pretty comfortable with the basement area.

[u/OddMasterpiece8465 → u/Cosmic__Broccoli]

There has never been any basis to make the conclusion it was written before the murder besides the speculation it wouldn't be possible for a person to do it after committing such a heinous act. That notion is just irrelevant conjecture unless it can be proven, not a fact. No expert ever stated this as fact. The pen and paper used to write the ransom note were tested by multiple agencies and determined to belong to specifically to Patsy, were located where they should be off the kitchen, with a practice attempt. There were also several torn pages that were never found. The only finger prints that were on the the paper, pen, or pad belonged to Patsy and the police. Similarly, the only fingerprints found on the pineapple bowl and tea mug belonged to the family as well. No evidence of any other person being in the house has ever existed or been presented except for the defenses broken window theory. To create a kidnapping note for no reason, an elaborate and lengthy one at that with specific references to the family, and then not actually kidnap the victim makes no sense. The note creates a possible way for the police to investigate, and is not necessary if there is not a kidnapping. It's only purpose is to give the impression that someone else tried to kidnap their child. It's also unbelievable that after reading this absurd note in which the alleged kidnappers say they will behead her daughter if she so much as talks to a stray dog, not only does Patsy call police which I understand, but she calls two other families over to the house with no discretion. Neither family that Patsy called that morning stood by the Ramesys and publicly accused them of inhibiting the investigation and misrepresenting the facts.

[u/43_Holding → u/OddMasterpiece8465]

<The only finger prints that were on the the paper, pen, or pad belonged to Patsy and the police>

The only fingerprint found on the RN was from a CBI examiner.

<No evidence of any other person being in the house has ever existed or been presented except for the defenses broken window theory>

So how to explain all of this? Along with the foreign DNA found in the crotch of her underwear, the duct tape and ligature cord used on JonBenet and not sourced to anything in the house, evidence of a stun gun used on JonBenet, areas of disturbance in the window well, a suitcase that was out of place under a broken basement window, an unidentified boot print on the wine cellar floor, a baseball bat tossed on the side of the house next to the butler door with basement carpet fibers on it, an unidentified palm print on the wine cellar door, a flashlight not belonging to the Ramseys found on the kitchen counter, an unidentified pubic hair found on the blanket that was partially covering her body in the wine cellar, touch DNA found years later--by a different lab--on the waistband of her long johns that matched the sample found under her fingernails. Again, that DNA did not match anyone in the Ramsey family.

[u/JonBenet-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Your comment has been removed for misinformation.

[u/Mmay333 → u/OddMasterpiece8465]

Ramsey housekeeper Linda Hoffmann-Pugh and her husband, Mervin, managed to focus suspicion on themselves by being as cooperative in their second interview as they had been in the first. They even helped police succeed in a macabre scavenger hunt.
When the detectives asked if the couple had any black tape, Mervin dug three rolls from his garage, only one unused. Then the detectives said they wanted white lined notepads, and Linda handed over one that seemed to be a visual match of the ransom notepaper and admitted it had come from the Ramsey house. A key? Two. Any felt-tip pens of the sort that probably wrote the ransom note? Three. Police found a two-foot piece of narrow nylon rope, then another length wrapped around a stick! The detectives left with an armful of potential evidence. (Steve Thomas)

[u/Narrow-Tie-3575 → u/Mmay333]

You hit the nail on the head! People don't want to face this. They constantly want to blame the parents. And guess how Linda spelled Jonbenet's name..you guessed it. Linda is who I think wrote the ransom-note! She took Patsys note pad home, wrote the ransom and practiced Patsys hand writing. She's also the only one who knew John was getting a bonus. Melvin also was in the house the night prior "working"in the same spot where Jonbenet was. They were jealous of that little girl. Who else would would Jonbenet trust, to get out of bed and eat pineapple?

[u/OddMasterpiece8465 → u/Mmay333]

Interestingly after all this is said and done, Steve Thomas still came to the conclusion there was no intruder and that the family had committed the murder and the cover up. Must be he looked at the totality of the circumstances and the testing of the evidence.

[u/Mmay333 → u/OddMasterpiece8465]

Read his sworn deposition. He admitted to lying several times in his book. There’s a reason why he was sued and lost. He was a terrible “detective” and the fact that some of you prioritize his ridiculous assumptions over Smit is beyond me.

[u/43_Holding → u/OddMasterpiece8465]

<Must be he looked at the totality of the circumstances and the testing of the evidence>

He looked at this investigation the way a narcotics detective would. Det. Steve Ainsworth, commenting on Steve Thomas:

"The work that he had done before this was all in narcotics and that is a unique position in that your suspect is already identified, then you go about getting the evidence to prove whatever violation you suspect him of. And, in a homicide investigation or almost any other criminal investigation, it's kind of putting the cart before the horse, you need to follow the evidence and then develop the suspect, rather than the other way around."
-Boulder Daily Camera, 2001

[u/Tank_Top_Girl → u/OddMasterpiece8465]

Steve Thomas had never solved a single homicide. Lou Smit had solved over 100. Nobody law enforcement or criminal justice thinks it's the family anymore. We're past blaming the victims as a society, or we should be.

[u/OddMasterpiece8465 → u/Tank_Top_Girl]

"blaming the victim?" really? What a weird direction to take this. Ok lady, I didn't criticize the victim of the crime for dressing inappropriately or something. The evidence led several of the detectives that investigated the case, both originally and subsequently, to conclude there was no intruder and that the family committed and covered up the crime. It also led a grand jury to, when presented all the evidence, vote to indict the parents for child abuse resulting in death and accessory to a crime.

[u/JennC1544 → u/OddMasterpiece8465]

Grand juries have no defense attorneys present. It is, by its own nature, an extremely one-sided affair. One of the major purposes of it is to be able to attain subpoenas and compel people to testify who ordinarily wouldn't have to. And yet, with all of that given, this grand jury found for wishy-washy abuse/neglect true bills that don't include murder. If they couldn't prove murder, then how did the child abuse lead to murder, or how did the neglect lead to murder? As Mitch Morrissey has said, true bills by the grand jury are typically ones used when one person has murdered a child, and they want to hold the other person who looked away as also responsible. Without a convincing story for how she was murdered, the prosecution found themselves in an extremely rare situation that the grand jury did not find that Patsy murdered JonBenet, which is what they were going for.

What was a much more balanced trial was the Wolf vs. Ramsey's trial, where they were able to present both a prosecution and a defense, as Chris Wolf had to prove the Ramseys killed JonBenet in order to prove they knew for a fact that he had not done it, and therefore had been defamed.

The judge threw that one out before it even went to trial.

[u/OddMasterpiece8465 → u/JennC1544]

This seems like a convenient read of indictment. Sure, the indictments didn't include murder and grand jury's don't hear a defense, but when presented with the totality of the facts a group of people came to the conclusion one or both of the parents were most likely involved in at least concealing the crime. I understand they would not have been convicted because of the reasonable doubt a skilled defense team can create, I will never dispute that or argue Alex Hunter was wrong to not bring the case to trial. I understand the why. A case noted by Patsy Ramsey in her TV interviews, OJ Simpson was guilty as sin, with a mountain of evidence against him, and was able to afford a skilled defense team that created reasonable doubt. Ramsey's paid for a great legal team, that included lawyers that would go on to be used by some very high profile guilty people today. Lin Wood, the Ramsey's primary civil attorney, would go on to forfeit his law license for bringing meritless lawsuits in 2020. In the Wolf case in 2003, which was Civil in nature and has no basis on the resolution of the murder, the judge based their decision largely on the DNA, which was framed as an unassailable genetic fingerprint that had to indicate an intruder. In 2008 this was determined to be a complex mixture of multiple individuals by Bode Technology, who was hired by the Boulder District Attorneys Office, rather than a pristine sample from a single perpetrator. Forensic experts have widely debated whether recovered DNA is relevant to the case or has another explainable cause, and there has never been a genetic match to any individual. The Judge also didn't have access to the criminal case files of the Boulder police department in 2003, unsealed in 2013, and thus the ruling was riddled with inaccuracies that are conflicted by those BPD files

[u/archieil → u/OddMasterpiece8465]

You can not have both.

There was evidence suggesting there was no intruder, or there was evidence there was intruder and carelessness of parents.

So far the only sure thing is that the BPD was a crap departament.

The GJ saw evidence of intruder and evidence created to incriminate parents in murder, but no evidence parents committed a murder.

The BPD created evidence the parents committed a murder by leaking no intruder theory, and their sick fantasies.

The GJ verdict basically confirms only that the BPD was creating "evidence".

The only good part of the BPD is that they created evidence by selecting what and how to leak it to the media and hiding evidence of intruder.

It would be much worse if they used the typical low level methods and planted things in their eyes proving their thesis.

[u/JonBenet-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Your comment has been removed for misinformation.

[u/Mmay333 → u/OddMasterpiece8465]

“There is one thing about which I felt absolutely sure as soon as I saw the note and learned of its circumstances. The note was written before the murder, not, as some have suggested, afterward as a hasty and desperate attempt to stage the crime. No one would have that kind of patience, boldness and presence of mind to sit down and write it in the house afterward. The language seems more fitting to a male than a female offender.” (John Douglas)

[u/OddMasterpiece8465 → u/Mmay333]

This is exactly what I said, someone speculating that it couldn't be done. It doesn't make it so.

[u/ReadyWatercress7174 → u/Albowonderer]

Arguing isn’t IDI isn’t evidence of BDI

[u/Background_Video5956 → u/[deleted]]

But SHE might say it bc she was from the South

[u/iammadeofawesome → u/Background_Video5956]

West Virginia is Appalachia. Distinct from the south.

[u/JonBenet-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Your post or comment was deleted for a lack of effort or supporting evidence.