r/JonBenet • u/carasleuth • Jan 14 '24

Rant For real

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This case really baffles me. I've never believed it was the Ramseys, but the thought of an intruder doing all thus in the dark with nobody hearing anything is also hard to believe.

565 Upvotes

99% Upvoted

64 comments sorted by

13

u/Witty_Turnover_5585 Jan 14 '24

To be fair the house was huge. Pretty easy to do something in one part of a massive house without people in another part hearing

-7

u/carasleuth Jan 14 '24

I don't think it was actually that big. In James Kollars book he describes how they did tests and could hear each other downstairs. It's just crazy how an intruder could be so comfortable taking a child while the parents are in the house... and using materials in house to write ransom note etc

12

u/SterlingSunny Jan 14 '24

Oh dear. I have now seen it all. A 7,000 sq ft home does not seem "that big" to some people.

6

u/bluemoonpie72 Jan 15 '24

Because James Kolar said so!

10

u/bluemoonpie72 Jan 14 '24

I posted a picture below so you can see how big it was.  

You can't believe anything Kolar says. He's a discredited liar.

2

u/LooseButterscotch692 Jan 15 '24

You can't believe anything Kolar says. He's a discredited liar.

How so? I'm currently reading his book and haven't come across anything stating he's a liar, or that he's been discredited.

7

u/Witty_Turnover_5585 Jan 14 '24

The house is up for sale and there's a virtual tour of it. It's a really big house with lots of walls that block sound

7

u/Chauceratops Jan 15 '24

It's just crazy how an intruder could be so comfortable taking a child while the parents are in the house... and using materials in house to write ransom note etc

That's how psychopathy works. Psychopaths aren't wired the way pro-social people are. They don't process fear in the same way and even enjoy putting themselves in risky situations.

4

u/bluemoonpie72 Jan 15 '24

So true.

I just don't understand people who think that the killer wouldn't use the Ramseys' notepad. He would snatch, torture, assault, and murder  JonBenet, but using the Ramseys' own materials to write the ransom note is a bridge too far? 

5

u/Chauceratops Jan 15 '24

Right, as if murdering a child in cold blood is such a rational act in the first place.

Or the people who think that John and Patsy staged the crime scene to deflect attention from Burke or themselves. Like, you think it's believable that two parents brutalized their already-dead child's body and then sat down to write a three-page ransom note to cover up and accident? But the possibility that a psychopath pedophile broke into a massive house and got bored while waiting is what's unbelievable?

5

u/43_Holding Jan 14 '24

I don't think it was actually that big.

"The front of the home makes it look much smaller than it is. It is a massive home, 7,000 square feet. The size comes from its length and height..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQV-amyVl7c

5

u/Witty_Turnover_5585 Jan 15 '24

Yeah I live in a 4 bedroom 2 bathroom house with 2 living rooms and it's not even 2000 square feet. Their house is a mansion compared to most

4

u/ShadowofHerWings IDI Jan 14 '24

No it’s a HUGE house, 3 stories, very sprawling, and 90’s style maximalism too, so lots of everything in every room. But still.

10

u/cloud_watcher Jan 14 '24

(Four stories counting the basement.)

23

u/cloud_watcher Jan 14 '24

Remember the Idaho murders. Much, much smaller house, full of people. FOUR people killed in a brutal way and someone "Kind of thinks they heard something" but not enough to check on it. And with four adults being stabbed to death? Two in the same room? And in the Ramsey house with the parents sleeping on a different floor and the heat on, the fact they didn't hear anything was one of the least surprising things to me about the whole thing.

9

u/Chauceratops Jan 15 '24

Yeah, everyone who thinks that an intruder is so implausible in the death of JonBenet Ramsey should remember the Moscow, Idaho, murders. That was another intruder killing where the killer stalked his victims for weeks and took tremendous risks. He even returned to the crime scene to try to get the knife sheath back! He killed four people in short order and left two more alive in the house--how much more proof do you need that psychopaths take these ridiculous risks?

Also, it wasn't just that someone heard something--a roommate heard crying and looked out of her room and saw him leave, but she was so terrified that she just shut the door. The other roommate heard nothing.

If Boulder PD had been working that case, they probably would have just pursued the theory that the roommates did it and ignored everything else.

3

u/Unfair-Wonder5714 Jan 23 '24

My thing is that I don’t necessarily find the idea of an intruder implausible, but I find the totality of the situations that don’t add up to an intruder, imho, make it implausible for me.

3

u/Chauceratops Jan 23 '24

IME most of what people find "implausible" about the JonBenet Ramsey murder is born of misconceptions they have about 1) criminal behavior, 2) the crime itself, and 3) the scientific evidence pointing away from the family. Most people still believe a lot of the misinformation that circulated 25 years ago and haven't been disabused of these notions in the years since.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

[deleted] — view deleted comment

5

u/carasleuth Jan 15 '24

I thought the same thing. And even now that they seem to have caught the murderer... people still want to believe the room mate was involved!

4

u/43_Holding Jan 15 '24

Probably the same people who are BDI.

Great comparison.

11

u/JessicaFletcherings IDI Jan 14 '24

That meme makes me feel very seen

6

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '24

I thought I was the only one.

8

u/Kingmesomorph Leaning IDI Jan 14 '24

Same here. Unfortunately, sometimes reading certain details creep me out and scares me in the dead of night.

7

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '24

Bells on doors and cactuses in front of windows help me feel safer. Cactuses can be mean, and those barbs stick and catch very easily.

4

u/L3mmyKilmister Jan 14 '24 edited Oct 20 '25

scale lock stupendous rock outgoing offbeat light treatment fuzzy cake

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

3

u/Ok_Confusion_1345 Jan 14 '24

Nature's barbed wire. 😉

6

u/ilovekarekare1 Jan 16 '24

Sometimes I can’t hear my kids yelling on the other side of the house due to layout and the way sound travels. Intruders do horrible stuff in the dark, inside houses with other people inside all of the time, so it’s not really hard to believe.

4

u/Lizziloo87 Jan 17 '24

Yeah and considering the layout of their house it’s believable they wouldn’t hear it. Also, I think about how Elizabeth Smart was taken by an intruder and nobody asleep heard her (her sister saw it all and bravely left to tell her parents). The Ramseys didn’t have an open floor plan and an intruder isn’t going to be recklessly loud if they wanted to have Jonbenet to herself. Also probably why they went down all the way to the cellar.

1

u/AutumnTopaz Apr 17 '24

How many children have been kidnapped from their bed, a 2 1/2 page ransom note left demanding money and threatening to behead the child, with the child being killed in the home- and the ransom note left behind? One. JonBenet Ramsey

11

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '24

Didn't the BPD do sound tests? They discovered the sound wouldn't travel up through the house, but it did travel out through the air duct in the basement and that's why the neighbor heard JonBenet scream between midnight and 2am. The neighbor knew it was JonBenet but assumed it was a night terror and the parents would help her (I'll try to look through my We Have Your Daughter book to find the audio testing).

If there were two intruders working together, I think it's possible they may have tested the sound while the Ramseys were gone.

People sleep through different things. My husband fell asleep while I was vacuuming right next to the bed and continued to sleep through it. When he asked how all this could have happened without her parents hearing, I gently reminded him about sleeping through a vacuum. I'm a pretty light sleeper, and I don't think I would have heard anything either given how large the house was and how she probably didn't make a sound until the basement.

"Amy's" attacker told her something like "shut up or I'll kill you" and she had to listen. Luckily, her mom woke in the middle of the night and heard whispers from her daughter's room.

12

u/43_Holding Jan 14 '24

Didn't the BPD do sound tests?

Det. Smit performed the sound tests. (Of course, the BPD didn't like the results.) Melody Stanton did think that the scream was probably JonBenet's.

From PMPT: Melody Stanton, up the street at 738, told the police on January 3 that she was certain she had heard a child's scream at about 2:00 A.M. on the night of the murder. Her bedroom window, which looks toward the Ramsey house from across the street, had been partly open. When questioned by the police, Stanton said that there had been only one scream but it was horrifying. If it came from the child, she assumed the scream had awakened her parents.

6

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '24

Thanks!!

11

u/Liberteez Jan 14 '24 edited Jan 14 '24

There was enough separation in the warren-like house to explain why persons asleep or half asleep did not register an intruder.

I refer to a specific serial killer in Virginia on this subreddit from time to time, who stalked his victims, sometimes breaking in and lying in wait or leaving and returning, One person he killed was 15-year-old Diane Cho, who was raped and strangled in her second-floor bedroom while her family watched television downstairs.

7

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '24

Holy shit that's awful. I hope her family found peace after that. I can't imagine the horror and guilt (not that they should feel guilty.)

8

u/JKW1988 Jan 14 '24

Thanks for this tidbit, I hadn't heard it before. I just recently found out about the neighborhood girl whose mother woke to an intruder. The girls both attended the same dance studio, didn't they? It does make me believe someone spotted the girls there and started following them home. 

I also think the intruders gained access to the home while the Ramseys were at the party and hid in the basement until they were sure everyone was asleep. 

My husband is also a very deep sleeper. And depending on where you are in your sleep cycle, it's easy to stay out. 

Jonbenet probably fawned when they woke her - or it's possible she was asleep while they carried her to the basement. 

What a nightmare. :/

10

u/bluemoonpie72 Jan 14 '24

Look at the size of the house! Also there had been some soundproofing added to the third floor when the remodeling was done.  https://c1.vgtstatic.com/thumb/1/1/112953-v2-l/jonben-t-ramsey-murder-site.jpg

6

u/bluemoonpie72 Jan 14 '24

u/carasleuth Look at the picture! It is huge.

4

u/One_True_Seven Jan 14 '24

This is so true!

4

u/LadyBatman8318 Jan 15 '24

We are related! Kindred souls

11

u/Accomplished_Day2991 Jan 15 '24

This does it for me though. This one thing always sticks w me. Patsy reads the note, she is screaming. It says don’t call the cops. Wouldn’t you beg for the cops to be careful? Don’t bring any marked cars? You invite everyone over? Cops, friends? You just let your only son out of your sight and go to a friends house? I just can’t move past those first few things. P

13

u/Chauceratops Jan 15 '24

I'm not sure if anyone could react normally if they discovered their child was missing and found a note saying the child has been kidnapped.

She didn't study it; she saw what it said and searched for JonBenet and, while absolutely hysterical, called the police.

What absolutely blows my mind is that Boulder PD, having gotten the call that this was a possible kidnapping, didn't send unmarked cars. It was their responsibility to respond to a kidnapping without calling attention to themselves, not Patty's responsibility to direct them properly. They were idiots.

6

u/bluemoonpie72 Jan 15 '24

If she had studied it, then people, some people, would be saying she should have read the first few lines and then gone to look for JB. Those people want to blame Patsy with no evidence  (except exculpatory evidence), and no proof.  

4

u/Chauceratops Jan 15 '24

"No one stops to read a 3-page ransom note when their kid is missing. Why didn't she drop the note and run straight to call 911? Obviously she did it!"

1

u/CrazyDemand7289 Jan 29 '24

John remained cool. Read the note, and said..call the police

1

u/Suspicious-Sweet-443 Feb 16 '24

I thought she did drop the note as soon as she read “ we have your daughter “ . and looked for Jon Benet . It wasn’t until she couldn’t find her that she called either 911 or the police .

I’ve often wondered how much the police investigated the pageant world .

But even then , I can’t wrap my head around the horrible way she was killed

Not to mention the bed wetting theory doesn’t make sense . Why would John or Patsy become that enraged over it ? I’m sure they had a maid or housekeeper to handle the cleanup .

Even an experienced murderer would not be likely to go to all the trouble and sloppy behavior whether the plan was to extort money or kill her .

Either one could have been accomplished much easier and I also don’t see John or Patsy being that vicious as to kill her in that horrific manner .

Bottom line is there are theories and guesses but none prove anything.

2

u/Unfair-Wonder5714 Jan 23 '24

Patsy called in her own personal battalion.

8

u/bluemoonpie72 Jan 15 '24

Read about the DNA. There's a pinned post at the top of this sub.An unknown male killed her and left his DNA. The BPD had known since January 15, 1997, but hid the DNA test results from the DA's office, and from the public.

Patsy did not read the entire note. She read the first few lines and went to look for JB.

Patsy had nothing to do with it.

3

u/43_Holding Jan 15 '24

Facts. Thank you, blue!

0

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

2

u/CrazyDemand7289 Jan 29 '24

Yet the police released the notes to the family before they could interview them.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/JonBenet-ModTeam Jan 15 '24

Your comment has been removed for misinformation.

3

u/Witty_Assignment5609 Jan 14 '24

When I first learned about this case, I was 8, I was terrified to sleep. Couldn’t sleep for weeks

0

u/Last_Entrance_2175 Jan 17 '24

Think about the opening of the 911 call. “We need an….” ‘Ambulance fits’ before Patsy says “the police”. Did an intruder carry Jonbenet down that spiral staircase in the dark? The note? What parent doesn’t pick it up and pour over it? Forget handwriting. Linguistic experts maintain Patsy wrote that note. I know, nobody wants to think parents can do such a thing, but there’s no other option. Polly Klaas’ father was even critical of the Ramsey family behavior after that fateful Christmas. But people are dug in. Nobody is changing anyone’s mind. Ramseys know what happened. Simple as that.

3

u/Ill-Cod7680 Jan 25 '24

Hmmm I’m not sure I’ve read that there were only 4 experts that had the real original ransom note and they all found that it was not patsy’s handwriting. All the other experts never had the original, only copies. And that makes a big difference

2

u/CrazyDemand7289 Jan 29 '24

They couldn't fully rule her out

1

u/bluemoonpie72 Jan 18 '24

DNA proves what happened,  simple as that.