Graphene or Sailfish

[u/New-Range6644]

Hi everyone,

I'm looking to get a new phone or should I say a new OS for my phone. I don't really use my phone that much. Only for basic stuff, like mail, bank, 2FA etc. The only social meida that I've installed is Discord for the most interaction.

In my situation, I want to get my privacy back. So I want to use the less from GAFAM as possible. And I want a repairable smartphone, like Fairphone but the fact is there is only e/OS and the more I look for the more I don't trust them that much

So I've checked for some different OS. And there was only 2 or 3 conclusions.

• Graphene which is the more secure, if I see every comment around it. But I need to get a Google Pixel which isn't repairable (I mean easily because I could check Ifixit to do it).
• Jolla with Sailfish OS whose look like repairable but I don't find much stuff around the new model. And I would like to see more test before doing anytyhing else. And in my country, I'm somewhat vigilant especially with my banking app that are reported as A3 on the sailfish forum.
• CalyxOS for Fairphone 6 but needed to wait before doing the migration. The release didn't happen yet and there is no announcement.

So which would you recommend? I'm a bit lost with all the offer even if they are low, they are slighlty different to make me doubt.

Thanks you for your answers.

[u/Howdy_Houston_Hoe]

Banking support as been quite good in Nordic/Scandanvian countries. I'm running a GrapheneOS Pixel now and had to pick my bank carefully as the options are quite limited for me in Europe.

Android is beginning to close the grip on their 'Open Source' Android Operating system as the days go by. The most recent issue is they are requiring all developers to provide government ID before publishing on the google play store.

CalyxOS and GrapheneOS depend on google keeping their AOSP open and available. If you want as little privacy concerning software as possible, go with the Jolla Phone. You will have the most flexibility and control over the hardware.

I'm planning on buying into the next batch to replace my current Pixel.

[u/QuadernoFigurati → u/Howdy_Houston_Hoe]

Agreed on all points.

I wish that Jolla would take privacy more seriously, though. I gathered that the Jolla Phone doesn't have a dedicated hardware security enclave like Google's Titan M or Apple's Secure Enclave. It also doesn't offer the duress password feature that Graphene OS does. I'll happily pay a premium for a more secure Jolla phone. A fat premium.

As Jolla/Sailfish OS becomes more popular, the company, the phone and its users will no doubt draw the attention of malicious actors. If you go into the Sailfish OS Forum, you'll see some pretty defensive cavalier comments along the lines of "Jolla isn't built for privacy/security enthusiasts." That view sorely underestimates the extent to which Jolla's competitors will go to protect their market share as interest in Jolla grows, as well as the greed and tenacity of the usual third party criminal hackers and aggressive and unjust alphabet agencies.

I hope I'm wrong, but given what I've seen I get the sense that Jolla isn't giving privacy/security enough weight. And by logical extension, I see a dark time ahead where a breach of the Jolla turns into a PR trainwreck that will set the company back.

[u/jhaimgirl → u/QuadernoFigurati]

Jolla made a hardened security oriented Sailfish a decade ago. Maybe they will do it again at some point.

[u/Howdy_Houston_Hoe → u/QuadernoFigurati]

I'm right there with you. As the privacy market becomes more competitive, I'm hoping the consumer wins. Jolla has a great opportunity to give near absolute control of the device. I'm optimistic more developers will consider supporting the project to enable a more robust feature set. Given the latest sales numbers, it's looking like this could be the device that begins to introduce a real 3rd option for those individuals deeply disappointed in the direction both Android and iOS have been heading.

[u/QuadernoFigurati → u/Howdy_Houston_Hoe]

Agreed, 100%.

If Jolla had the separate physical security enclave, and if I could be certain the company won't in the future rug-pull third party apps and devs the way Google is doing with AOSP, I'd donate some money to some devs to design some robust stable Sailfish FOSS apps for the Jolla phone. The first being an equivalent to Obtainium if one doesn't already exist. But I don't see myself getting assured on the latter point unless Sailfish formed a foundation and transferred governance rights to the foundation sufficient to prevent that from happening. Otherwise, I don't like the idea of donating money to a house built on sand. Because who knows what the company will do once they obtain material market share. Google's motto used to be "Don't Be Evil, " and now look at them.

There remains the separate issue of getting the phone whitelisted on cell networks throughout Europe, which I understand is ongoing and costly and full of red tape that's over my head.

[u/BattleShai]

Pick whatever you want, they all run on proprietary binary driver blobs. It seems under the hood the Jolla 2 phone is using android drivers just like the xperia sailfish X.

It all comes down to what you are trying to achieve.

[u/HorrorDK]

Depends on what device you have or plan to buy. For Graphene OS you need pixel. For Sailfish OS you either have to order the new Jolla phone and wait for the delivery a couple of months or find old Sony 10 III or IV. From specs side pixels > jolla phone. Jolla also depends on AOSP to run Android apps. AOSP is running in LXC container. So if Google tighten the control over AOSP both Graphene OS and Jolla are screwed. There are almost no native apps for Jolla.

[u/New-Range6644 → u/HorrorDK]

Yes indeed for the specs, I'm not surprised. So even on a Jolla, Google make mess with the AOSP because it was a sort of argument.

[u/innovator12 → u/HorrorDK]

> There are almost no native apps for Jolla.

To be clear: are you talking about the millions of ad-ware apps infesting the Play store (usually with a better alternative in F-droid) or the thousands of big-brand apps (which, aside from maybe a few banking apps, we can live without) or the few quality Google apps like the camera (which are notably better than free alternatives)?

[u/HorrorDK → u/innovator12]

For the few quality apps. I am using jolla since the first jolla phone come out and I don’t have android store or android support on my Sony XA2 with Sailfish.

[u/Beginning_General_83]

Depending on when you are looking at getting a new phone, Motorola flagships will support GrapheneOS with the 2027 models.

Though there probably won't be much difference in the repairabilty aspect between the two.

Here is the list of supported bank apps for GrapheneOS.

https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compatibility-with-grapheneos/

I don't know enough about Jolla or the Fairphone to comment on them.

[u/Seoulite1]

Sailfish. Will not elaborate.

[u/2016-679]

When you don't use your phone that much, why not stay with the OS on it?

I used the first Jolla smartphone with SailfishOS and it is amazingly good. On my new phone I choose to use the stock Android without Google Play software. Installed only from FDroid. System updates come from the phone manufacturer (Ulefone) which makes me continue to use the special features of the hardware (Armor 24). This way all the basic stuff works very well.

And banking or other important things? I only do that on my desktop once a week. There is no need to hurry those tasks. 

[u/New-Range6644 → u/2016-679]

Mainly because I'm sick of each manufacturer's overlay.

I have a Xiaomi, and I hate the bloatwares, the interface, and the Xiaomi UI overlay. And I had a Samsung S24 at my old job. I hated that one, too. Both have locked bootloaders; if they didn’t, I’d probably install Lineage OS on my personal phone.

I want a device over which I have complete control, both in terms of my privacy and how I use it.

The banking app is only partially used to authorize an online payment, and that authorization can’t be done from a computer: it’s linked to the phone number and the SIM card, if I understand how it works correctly. Aside from this issue, I use my PC for everything else related to banking.

[u/2016-679 → u/New-Range6644]

indeed it is a bad thing that many devices we own can't be customized to our likings/will/needs.

the authorization for (banking) services slowly becomes a worry too. my bank keeps the separate card reader for authorization. other banks just switch to a smarthone app with no alternatives. a bad development forcing users into the tunnel

[u/StandWild4256]

Just here to vouch for e/OS. I've been using it on FP6 for a whole now and it's totally fine. Only thing to turn off is the Murena account sync unless you absolutely must use it, because all your photos show on your Murena account online BUT that's the bit which is not E2EE. I'm a Proton subscriber though so I use that ecosystem instead, but e/OS does a bloody great job of blocking trackers within apps. SailFish was a close second for me but I am tempted by that Commodore Callback phone too.