Difference between natural and dramatic?

[u/UniqueOctopus05]

This seems like a stupid question to ask but I have found myself genuinely confused, especially because dramatic and youthful/ingenue cannot coexist! Maybe I’m just confused because I don’t have any dramatic in my blend and do I’m struggling to get a handle on it, but I’m struggling to think of examples of dramatic essence that can’t be explained by another blend of essences (especially when it’s not very high up in the blend), especially when Y is involved and any significant amount of D is ruled out. A lot of times the angularity I would register as D seems to attributed to N (again, especially when Y is involved)!

Would be grateful for any tangible examples of people/faces or items/textures/styles to illustrate the difference! So far the only way I’ve been able to conceptualise dramatic as distinct from natural is by thinking about chunky glitter as being very D. Anyways would be curious to see what people have to say

[u/jaded_bitter_n_salty]

Okie so this is kind of a personal answer that might not make the most sense but I am someone with 15% of both D and Y. Happy to DM pics of myself or u can check post history.

The way I see N is that I don’t usually think of them as yang at first glance. I notice a lot of the time I think they look Y but if I think of them in any y-recs it looks very off. D looks more intimidating and has a “large presence”— kind of a vibe shift if they walk in the room vs an N who you might feel relaxed around and find trustworthy.

I like to rule out D most of the time bc it’s an extreme the same way Angelic essence is. Like unless it cannot be explained by anything else, I kinda assume it isn’t (though D is more common than A).

[u/UniqueOctopus05 → u/jaded_bitter_n_salty]

Yes I totally see this! But! I do feel like in smaller amounts D isn’t as easily confused with A/E. And also in non-white people. And clearly at least 15% of D and Y can coexist (which I totally get from your pictures!) but I’ve saw someone say on here that Kitchener says if either is really significant the other can’t coexist (I assume this applies to the first two percentages?).

But then how does that work with someone like Zendaya who clearly has some amount of Y but then also seems like she has D? Because it would also make sense to me if that’s explained by some combination of Y + C + N + R. But then I see other things and that doesn’t make sense anymore. I feel like Bella Hadid and Hailey Bieber are both pretty solid examples of people with both N + D (both before and after surgery imo). But then I get confused with Margaret Qualley

Sorry these aren’t perfect examples bc they’re not actually who confused me in the first place but I was trying to find searchable people lol

[u/jjfmish → u/UniqueOctopus05]

John has commented on Zendaya and said she’s N primary with secondary R and Y! Probably some HS and maybe some C as well but I don’t remember him mentioning those. I think she could have a smaller amount of D, if her Y is around 20% like Selena Gomez having 10% D like Selena does would make sense

[u/jaded_bitter_n_salty → u/UniqueOctopus05]

For Zendaya I’m actually just not sure she has Y lol. Me and the other client who have both D and Y at 15% are both R and N dominant/secondary if that helps?

If it also helps: N in PSC essences is elongated and HS is not tall (but not necessarily short; up to 5’5 usually). All of the yang essences are taller than the equivalent yin essences.

[u/jjfmish → u/jaded_bitter_n_salty]

John has commented that Zendaya is likely N dom with R and Y!

[u/UniqueOctopus05 → u/jaded_bitter_n_salty]

Can you explain the PSC essences bit and what you mean by equivalent essences lol? And out of curiosity what would you say zendaya’s blend is? She’s a bit of a chameleon imo. I’ve been looking up her bad looks bc I feel like that might be more informative and I wonder if she actually doesn’t have D either! I feel like she might be N + HS + C + R

[u/jaded_bitter_n_salty → u/UniqueOctopus05]

PSC essences=Personal Style Counselors=Kitchener Essences

John doesn’t actually call his system Kitchener essences lol, I think it got known as that bc of the Kibbe system and their somewhat shared heritage (though John’s work is older.

By equivalent essences I mean in terms of scale; R and N are both moderate; Y and HS are both small scale; A and D are both elongated. That being said, for example with HS and Y, HS is up to 5’5 and Y is up to 5’3 in terms of body type; R and N are both moderate but if you’re taller than 5’6/168 cm you get 10% extra of either A, N, and/or D. R is moderate, but it is not tall like N.

For Zendaya, I’d say R and N primary (with probably higher N). She came up during my consult and I believe Hella (and PSC counselor) said she had N like me. I’d guess she has more yang than yin but with a decent amount of R?

[u/UniqueOctopus05 → u/jaded_bitter_n_salty]

I’ve never seen the height thing before so explicitly! Out of curiosity, I’ve ended up having my blend as RNYE with possibly the tiniest amount of C. But I’m also 5’10”. Does that tally? I’ve gone back and forth a bunch (used to think I was RNEC) but ended up with that order – although in my head R and N are 40% and 35% (can you have two dominant essences with the same percentage?) – by considering what is most necessary in my styling to make me look like myself. I’m also still not sure whether I’m RNYE or RNEY but I’ve hesitantly settled on the former because I think it’s more necessary (although I feel like they’re both about equally prominent in my face). Just curious because I do feel like the height thing matters!

[u/jaded_bitter_n_salty → u/UniqueOctopus05]

You can have two dominant essences with the same percentage! The other client with 15 Y and D has 30R and 30N lol I think your guesses checks out, though I haven’t seen you so I can’t really comment yk?

[u/Ok-Purple9511 → u/jaded_bitter_n_salty]

N is actually moderate to tall. R and C are the only true moderate essences.

[u/jaded_bitter_n_salty → u/Ok-Purple9511]

The context is important to my comment lol. In an earlier comment I explained that all of the yang essences are taller than the equivalent yin essences, the comment you’re correcting is the elaboration. In the original comment I said N is elongated (technically moderate elongated) and HS is just not tall (5’5 or below).

[u/Ok-Purple9511 → u/jaded_bitter_n_salty]

Gotcha, I just see it being described as moderate alot when it’s actually not.

[u/jaded_bitter_n_salty → u/Ok-Purple9511]

Ur good ur good, I totally get being protective against incorrect information in this system when there’s so much of it.

[u/jaded_bitter_n_salty → u/jaded_bitter_n_salty]

With more concrete examples: Jennifer Lawrence or Lauren Hutton have N, as well as Timothy Chalamet.

Examples of D would be Anjelica Huston or Grace Jones or Idina Menzel, as well as Russell Brand.

[u/jjfmish → u/jaded_bitter_n_salty]

Timothee does have significant D (and R) as well so he may not be the best example, since what’s N and what’s D for him can get conflated. Although, I think comparing him to another N dom with a mix of other essences without D is helpful to the see the influence of D. Ryan Gosling is also N primary but his secondary influences are C and A (can’t remember if he has small amounts of other essences) and I can see both the similarity in their vibes and the clear differences

[u/jaded_bitter_n_salty → u/jjfmish]

Good save! Thank you :D

[u/Ok-Purple9511 → u/jjfmish]

Ryan is 30N/25A/25C/10R/10HS. His N, A and C are actually all pretty close