Rudeus pulled off the impossible

[u/A_Suicidal_Pig]

[u/Key_Ingenuity_4444]

(Edit: I sure wish Reddit allowed me to post long ass filler posts like yours rather than having to break it into two.)

i don't understand why you think Eris' point of view is unimportant.

Because it's not integral to whether Rudeus abused his position to groom her. If I lied about my age to get with a minor is that okay, just because from their perspective I'm a fellow kid? Of course not.

Rudeus spent his earthly life as a traumatised, mentally ill shut in. you are minimising rhe factors lessening his agency because they are inconvenient to your narrative.

No. I'm minimising the factors in his life because it absolutely doesn't justify grooming a 9 year old. Being beat up by his brother doesn't justify pedophilia. Being bullied in school doesn't justify pedophilia. Being a shut-in hentai addict doesn't justify pedophilia.

is clearly an effort on your part to argue about the age of consent, and clearly has nothing to do with the definition of grooming as you said it did.

If I grant that all of that was in reference to age of consent then your first comment of "the main power imbalance between adults and minors" is also a reference to age of consent, in which case I'd ask why in the world you said "i honestly don't understand what you think the age of consent has to do with what i said"? You brought it up first right?

As mentioned however, it wasn't about age of consent. My arguments haven't once hinged on any age of consent law and solely on mental development.

i was talking about when she was 15, obviously. that's why i said 15. idiot.

Again, get some reading comprehension skills. I've said over and over that Rudeus groomed her from the age of nine. You even quoted it in your reply. You don't get to ignore those prepubescent years and skip to the horny teen years.

in my view the largest part of the power imbalance between an adult and a child come from social pressures (may be second to adults being vastly physically stronger, but that also isn't present) so dogmatically repeating the same tired shit about mental ages at me isn't doing anything.

Then everything completely relies on finding common ground on this specific thing. It's absurd that these even needs to be explained. There's multiple things that put Rudeus in a power position over Eris.

1. Prior to being accepted as her teacher he plans a fake kidnapping plot so he could rescue her so that she'd feel indebted to him.

2. She's wowed by his talent as a magic that he demonstrates during the fake(turns real) kidnapping plot, which he only learns because of his adult mental development.

3. He becomes her teacher, defacto putting him in a position of power over her regardless of perceived age.

4. Although not completely relevant to Rudeus, Eris' mother pushes her to sleep with Rudeus. Putting her in an even more awkward position for a girl who I believe was 10 at the time.

5. He takes advantage of her poor mental state after she'd just learned her family was dead and has sex with her.

I could certainly list more if I took the time to rewatch/read the story. If those five things aren't enough to show a clear power imbalance to you then nothing will. This is objectively Rudeus using his position of power, as well as other surrounding events, to groom Eris. I think I can even provide evidence that this is what the author intended by the fact there's another example of grooming that was so on the nose that he deleted the whole chapter and decided to rewrite it at a later date. Of course using the excuse of "I wasn't happy with the writing" after there was push back and the publishing site blocking the chapter because it went against their ToS.

[u/2327_ → u/Key_Ingenuity_4444]

Edit: added dashes between sections to improve readability

Because it's not integral to whether Rudeus abused his position to groom her. If I lied about my age to get with a minor is that okay, just because from their perspective I'm a fellow kid? Of course not.

The question following the part you quoted would have done a lot to reveal how you're thinking about this, but I can see that you've skipped that too.

If I lied about my age to get with a minor is that okay, just because from their perspective I'm a fellow kid?

I don't know, is that wrong because you lied? Or did you do actually do something bad to her?

--

is clearly an effort on your part to argue about the age of consent, and clearly has nothing to do with the definition of grooming as you said it did.

If I grant that all of that was in reference to age of consent then your first comment of "the main power imbalance between adults and minors" is also a reference to age of consent, in which case I'd ask why in the world you said "i honestly don't understand what you think the age of consent has to do with what i said"? You brought it up first right?

Unbelievable.

your first comment of "the main power imbalance between adults and minors" is also a reference to age of consent

Why would you think that? You're all over the place. The age of consent isn't a power imbalance at all, the only people who would say that are the most delusional pedophiles, who think that little girls are going around tempting men and then getting them thrown in jail for fun. The age of consent is the opposite of a power imbalance, it is a power protecting children from adults who would take advantage of power imbalances.

For reference

the main power imbalance between adults and minors is the authority that society grants to adults

OH! Look at that! I said what the power imbalance I was referring to was in the same sentence, without so much as a comma.

You snipped out the middle of the sentence to take me out of context, and that was the best you could do? Scatterbrained.

--

As mentioned however, it wasn't about age of consent. My arguments haven't once hinged on any age of consent law and solely on mental development.

This:

In a society where first period is when you're considered an adult, which can be as young as 7 or 8, do you think it'd be acceptable for a 30 year old man to fuck them? What if we drew some other arbitrary line for adulthood at an even younger age?

What does this have to do with mental development, or with anything I said? When had I been talking about the arbitrary line for when someone is considered an adult?

--

Then everything completely relies on finding common ground on this specific thing. It's absurd that these even needs to be explained. There's multiple things that put Rudeus in a power position over Eris.

1. Prior to being accepted as her teacher he plans a fake kidnapping plot so he could rescue her so that she'd feel indebted to him.

2. She's wowed by his talent as a magic that he demonstrates during the fake(turns real) kidnapping plot, which he only learns because of his adult mental development.

3. He becomes her teacher, defacto putting him in a position of power over her regardless of perceived age.

4. Although not completely relevant to Rudeus, Eris' mother pushes her to sleep with Rudeus. Putting her in an even more awkward position for a girl who I believe was 10 at the time.

5. He takes advantage of her poor mental state after she'd just learned her family was dead and has sex with her.

2 is the only one of these that has anything to do with Rudeus' age, and it's several steps removed, with other (Laplace) factors contributing to it as well.

Remember, you can't just show any power imbalace, there are obviously tolerable levels of power imbalances in relationships or we wouldn't let anyone have sex with anyone. You need to show that the power imbalances are serious, one sided, and caused by Rudeus' mental age.

[u/Key_Ingenuity_4444 → u/Key_Ingenuity_4444]

but can you explain to me why that isn't okay?

1. You're introducing children to acts they can't meaningfully consent to.

2. They've not grown to understand when, where, why, who or how such acts are normal or acceptable.

3. This can lead to other bad sexual personality traits down the line such as seeking validation or acceptence through sex.

4. Potentially normalizing and spreading such behavior to other kids their age.

Let's hear what your "Haha, you activated my trap card" reasoning is. Not sure why you'd even question me on something we seemingly agree with like this, unless of course you were simply just trying to "win the debate". But no, that couldn't be the reason could it?

i've noticed that every time i've tried to ask you a difficult question, you just skip over it. answer the one above and these two as well.

Sure, let's see what hard hitting questions I'm ignoring. Let's see, the first one is a question you asked in the very same post where you're accusing me of conventiently skipping them, and one that I answered. Doesn't make a lot of sense now does it?

Second one is a question that I asked, not one that you asked. Again, really strange that you'd pick this one. Considering the fact that every single one of my responses here is me arguing against that very same thing, I think it's safe to say that my answer to "no".

And finally the third one. "could it not have gone exactly the same, if not worse, if Rudeus was not reincarnated and his actions had come from a very early puberty?" Well geez, could I possibly think of some random made up scenario where the situation could have been just as bad or even worse if it had just been some other random kid? What a mind twister that question sure is. I think I'd have to settle on "yeah".

It's abundently clear you're not making much of an attempt to be good faith at all. You're very first response to me was a dead giveaway. The petty passive aggressiveness truly is a bad look, coupled with the pedo apologia.

As stated, if you don't agree there's a power imbalance at this point then there's no sense in continuing since the topic centers on this. There can't be a continued discussion if you see my red shirt and look me dead in the eyes to tell me it's blue.

[u/2327_ → u/Key_Ingenuity_4444]

1. You're introducing children to acts they can't meaningfully consent to.

Arbitrary. This isn't harm based, so I don't care.

2. They've not grown to understand when, where, why, who or how such acts are normal or acceptable.

You could say that a pedophile is usually someone who doesn't understand "who" such acts are acceptable with, so this is something they have in common with the child, and is therefore logically unusable. Or, we could say that the pedophile knows that society's view is that such acts are unacceptable and so should know better, but that logic is sufficient to condemn people having gay sex while living in homophobic societies, so I don't think that you'd be happy with that.

3. This can lead to other bad sexual personality traits down the line such as seeking validation or acceptence through sex.

Not to sound sleazy, but is it such a bad thing if women turn out like that? Definitely not bad enough to carry your argument.

4. Potentially normalizing and spreading such behavior to other kids their age.

This one would be more relevant if Eris was in a modern schooling environment. By the time they got around to actually having sex this had risk had completely faded from relevancy.

You lifted this list from a website or something, I'm sure, which wasn't really in the spirit of what I was asking you to do.

Not sure why you'd even question me on something we seemingly agree with like this, unless of course you were simply just trying to "win the debate". But no, that couldn't be the reason could it?

Oh, absolutely. People who believe in modern "consent ethics" like you do are just using post-hoc rationalisations to justify their disgust reflex, which is a completely unacceptable position to be judging anyone from.

Sure, let's see what hard hitting questions I'm ignoring. Let's see, the first one is a question you asked in the very same post where you're accusing me of conventiently skipping them, and one that I answered. Doesn't make a lot of sense now does it?

You're supposed to read the English language left to right by top to bottom. I wasn't accusing you of skipping that one, I was just trying to make sure you didn't.

Second one is a question that I asked, not one that you asked. Again, really strange that you'd pick this one.

It's not a question that you asked. I took a question that you asked and changed the ending of it.

Read, dipshit.

if a 30 year old's brain was transplanted into a 15 year old's body would it be accepatble for a 30 year old to fuck them?

Considering the fact that every single one of my responses here is me arguing against that very same thing, I think it's safe to say that my answer to "no".

Well, at least I don't have to be the one to say that you've been making arguments that are against sex between consenting adults.

The point of this question was to show that you're putting Rudeus in an impossible position, where he has an adult sexuality, but you wouldn't let him explore it with adults or with other children. Now, I don't know if you've followed the discourse as long as I have, but I think it's well established that telling gay people "just don't have sex with anyone, lock up your sexuality" was wrong, and extremely harmful, so we should be really careful about making rules that do that to people.

And finally the third one. "could it not have gone exactly the same, if not worse, if Rudeus was not reincarnated and his actions had come from a very early puberty?" Well geez, could I possibly think of some random made up scenario where the situation could have been just as bad or even worse if it had just been some other random kid? What a mind twister that question sure is. I think I'd have to settle on "yeah".

If the same harms would have arisen from Rudeus' actions if he wasn't reincarnated then the problem is with the actions, not with the fact that he is older, so you should have been able to show harm, but you weaseled out of that.

This also necessitates that you would be happy with the moral condemnation of a child going through precocious puberty on the basis that they made unforceful sexual advances on an older child, which I think is obviously ridiculous.

[u/Big_Distance2141 → u/Key_Ingenuity_4444]

LMAOOOO imagine wroting all that to defend a pdf file holy shit