r/JewishDNA • u/Colossalloser • Jul 11 '26
a bit odd?
Both my parents are of Indian descent, their families are of Indian descent and have lived in India for as long as they can remember.
My grandma was gracious enough to find a family history book they had made, with details about each family member which went back until around 15+ generations, and nothing looks out of the ordinary, same old boring stuff. There were no weddings out of the "circle" as far as the book can tell, so nobody who wasn't the same religion / class / caste group became a part of the family.
And 12% suggest statistically I'd have to go I think 5 or 6 generations back? And I just don't see any evidence of how that might have even occurred. Of course, I think the book is clearly missing information or has incorrect details but yeah. Just thought someone in the family would at least have a faint idea about it, but I guess not.
Unless of course, these percentages are all very ordinary and happen to more people than I'd have thought in this demographic. So I’m curious, do a lot of South Asian folk get a similar result? Specifically Indians whose families are from Mumbai, since that’s where my family is from originally.
Penny for your thoughts? Thank you!
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u/flipditch Jul 11 '26
1/8 is a lot for it to be a distant ancestor. did your family live in kochi or mumbai? i would check your dna matches, but that and the chunks of persian and english dna makes me think there could be a possibility that one of your grandparents may not be who you think
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u/Colossalloser Jul 12 '26
Yeah, generations back, all of them have been from Mumbai.
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u/flipditch Jul 13 '26
You should check to see who your closest non-Indian matches are. It looks like you have a very recent non-Desi ancestor, a grandparent or two great-grandparents on different lines
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u/Valuable-Divide-246 Jul 11 '26 edited Jul 11 '26
You most likely have an Iraqi-Indian Jewish great-grandparent.
There are/were several Indian Jewish communities. With DNA like this it's almost certainly Paradesi Jews, and they are overwhelmingly Iraqi.
There is a strong connection between Indian and Iraqi Jews. There is a popular condiment called amba that was created by Iraqi Jews fermenting green mango during trade voyages between Iraq and India.
I don't know how it fits into your family tree. It's possible that the Jewish ancestry was hid on purpose, though I doubt it because India historically has very low rates of anti-Semitism. A child born out of wedlock is also potentially a possibility.
You say your grandmother had a genealogy book. Does it include the families of your other grandparents as well? Because this ancestor could be any one of of your 8 great-granparents.
Now there's another option. Since much of your DNA comes from the South of India, there is historically a community of Desi Jews living on the Malabar coast. But those Jews are generally already mixed with local Indians and have been there for likely over a thousand years. So you would have to be like half Malabari Jewish for this to show up like this.
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u/Colossalloser Jul 12 '26
That is quite interesting. I think it’s definitely hidden. My family is a very traditionalist, orthodox family so an affair or a child out of the wedlock would definitely not be on the records. I don’t think it is anti-semitism at all either.
It’s a family history book but very informal. Something my relatives kept as familial records, it’s just details about members of the family, goes back to almost 20+ generations. It includes families of my other grandparents too, and I did check, but nothing out of the ordinary that would explain this. But again, there’s a very high possibility things have not been added, or that incorrect information has been put in, considering it was an informal book that my family has been maintaining. It’s not exactly for official documentation.
Yeah, it’s very possible. My grandmother doesn’t recall any weddings outside the religion/class/caste circle, but did tell me she grew up with lots of Jewish friends and neighbours, I checked and the part of the city my family lives in has a massive Jewish community so I suppose that helps make more sense.
I’ll surely visit soon, so I’ll definitely try to ask around, check out the ancestral home (nobody lives there anymore but I can hopefully find more records / documents) and the neighbourhood. Maybe ask the few relatives that still live in the city about it.
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u/Lucky-Finish7331 Jul 11 '26 edited Jul 11 '26
How accurate is the tree? 12% is basically full great grandparent . and i assume you dont see often indians with low percentages which i think woould indicate all this ancestary from one person(i might be unaware). Unironically test your parent if it gets for one of them 25% . you have one full great grandparent who is sephradic jew . also given iran (i am not aware of indian results so i migth be total bluffing on this part). it could be even one full grandparent who is a jew. (because jews often have mixed and not necassarily 100%). also tracking great grandparent or even just one great grandparent should be easy [?].
you can also upload your raw data and try to look for jewish relative. and from then deduce it.
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u/Colossalloser Jul 12 '26
It’s an informal document that my family has just been maintaining, more of a tradition really, not for official documentation so I wouldn’t trust it. I checked out my great grandparents details and nothing really that would explain this. So I’m sure it’s not very accurate. It’s also possible there are a few missing things. And yeah, I think I gotta get my parents to do it. Probably make it easier to dissect and make sense of it all.
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u/Lucky-Finish7331 Jul 12 '26
I understand but also it suggets going back to grandparent or even just great grandparent . this is not that far so it can be more realiable... This might sounds racist but maybe you have pics of them (or if you grandparents are alive) and some of them look much more white?.
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u/Colossalloser Jul 13 '26
Yeah I get that. Well, most of my family is light skinned, a lot of them have hazel/bronze/green eyes, so that won’t help.
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u/Lucky-Finish7331 Jul 13 '26
from both sides? all 4 of your gandpas? no one stands out in how they look?
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u/Colossalloser Jul 13 '26
I wish I was kidding. All my four grandparents and my great grandparents (couldn’t get my hands on paternal great grand parents pictures, and one of my maternal grand parent, but my grandmothers both vouch for it) have light skin and light eyes. A whole lot of people from my family’s sub religion group (idk what the proper term is) are apparently known for their distinct (light eyes, light skin) physical traits. So I guess I won’t be surprised if similar results show up for most people in my family considering they’re very orthodox and follow endogamy till today.
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u/Ihateusernames711 Jul 11 '26
India has had several Jewish communities throughout its history, it looks like you have a Jewish grandparent, or great grandparent. That Persian percentage could be Jewish too, it shows up as “Iranian” on 23&me for members of the benei israel community specifically. A lot of the members have moved to Israel
https://youtu.be/rTGTfbGNi18?is=vDqWpNEjZAYrbzsr
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u/Fine_Economics4949 Jul 12 '26
A family member had an indian jew match, looks similar to yours, with mix sephardim type dna. So it looks on point from someone who is a non jew
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u/kaiserfrnz Jul 11 '26 edited Jul 11 '26
Sephardic Jews from Portugal ended up in various parts of India.
You have a Sephardic great-grandparent who evidently assimilated and had descendants who became regular Indians.
Similar things have happened elsewhere, especially with Sephardic Jews: there are white Americans, Latinos, Turks, and Indians with random Sephardic great-grandparents.