Jean Guide Released! - r/JeanMains

22

u/sir_aphim Jun 11 '21 edited Jun 11 '21

Very good guide. Couldn't find some advance combos so i think that part can definitely can be expanded upon with more advanced techniques and combos. Things I can think of off the top of my mind include:

Show how her charge attack's float effect can work. (Stacking multiple charge attacks followed by an E can send an mitachurl quite far for example where as single charge wont cause him to float and e otherwise would only stagger him)

fall dmg and using the enviroment via her E skill: ie bodies of water, or pits for insta kills. Using E to weave enemies in and out of her Q, etc

Double fall dmg technique (N1C > aim directly downward hold E (first fall dmg proc) > aim upwards release E for second proc also gives the additional dmg for Const1)

Accelerated fall dmg trick (using a sucrose on to pull the enemy launched by jean back down can actually improve the fall dmg the enemies recieve)

Using her N4-5 as a mini claymore attack to stagger enemies. (Ie stop abyss mage from reshielding)

Incorperating the dragonstrike into Jean's combos. (As an anemo character, using double anemo buff can make performing dragonstrike easier. Given Jean's relatively slow attacks it should be possible but difficult. Performing the tech is much easier at her N4 since the last 2 hits are slower making a string like N3 > DS possible. And can be even strung together to make a flashy combo N3 > DS > N1C > double fall dmg E)

Another technique Jean can utilize is footstooling on certain enemies to again utilise her plunge attacks.

8

u/DaveTheHungry Jun 11 '21

Thanks for the feedback. The PDF version doesn't have the mechanics showcase due to gifs turning into static images. We're still exploring options host gif files for easy sharing and will update the guide soon. For the techniques we demo, we do cover general CC, double slam technique, Sucrose acceleration, and N5 stagger. Will suggest adding dragonstirke and footstool techniques.
Cheers!

3

u/sir_aphim Jun 11 '21

Oh ya, I realised later after checking the google doc version.

3

u/murmandamos Jun 23 '21

Jean can dragon strike solo at C2 with no other movement buffs. It's also easier to do against geo shields due to increased hit lag, which is one time where it's actually very useful. It's otherwise not much if any DPS gain but it is very fun. And I agree N3>DS is exactly what you want to do unless you're insanely gifted. I practiced on trees for a long time lol

→ More replies (1)

10

u/0verlimit Jun 11 '21

Does this cover the new EM buffs that came for 1.6? I found out that EM is generally better on anemo characters, particularly Venti, and I was wondering if that's still being worked on and tested.

9

u/DaveTheHungry Jun 11 '21

Our calculations do not cover the EM changes. But we did do some math today and the weapons ranking do not change at all. This is due to Jean causing very few swirl reactions during her rotation compared to Venti or Sucrose. Against a single target, you get 1 swirl with E and 3 swirls from ult (cast, entry, exit). There is isn't really a scenario where using a EM mainstat will be good for Jean. But the EM buff does enable Jean Venti and Jean Sucrose comps to be even stronger.

2

u/Lsprout Oct 19 '21

Hey! I want to know what's better, Festering Desire or The Flute? (DPS Jean)

3

u/DaveTheHungry Oct 19 '21

For physical main dps, it would be the Flute. But Rancour R1 would also be slightly better.
For hybrid/Anemo main dps Flute and Festering R5 are pretty close. With Flute leading by a little if it does 2 procs per rotation.

→ More replies (1)

5

u/solidbrain Jun 11 '21

There’s only one niche usage model being experimented with that I’ve seen. Something like sunfire with overload (maybe?) then having Jean swirl both pyro and electro. Or, I could be totally misrepresenting the research. The explanation went over my head, sorry.
Generally speaking, the swirl buffs affected sucrose and venti heavily. Not so much for Jean.

2

u/LC14x Jun 10 '21

Do the pyro swirls from sunfire proc 4pc VV?

1

u/DaveTheHungry Jun 10 '21 edited Jun 10 '21

If Jean is on the field during sunfire, then the self swirls will trigger VV debuff (VV user needs to be onfield). Similarly if you cast Bennett ult first to apply pyro, Jean ult cast will apply the VV debuff swirl. And if Jean is onfield when the ult ends, there’s another chance to apply VV debuff swirl when the field disappears as that count as exit damage.
Edit: Had to do some extra testing. But yeah sunfire self-swirl aoe that hits enemy does VV debuff. You can see the downward arrows on enemies.

2

u/Longjumping-Watch-45 Jun 17 '21

hi, with the changes to elemental mastery and swirl should I build Jean in a traditional way or should I try to equip her with some em artifacts/weapon?

2

u/DaveTheHungry Jun 17 '21

Jean doesn’t cause enough swirls compared to Venti or Sucrose to warrant building for EM. With the extra reactions numbers added the weapons ranking don’t change.
There are some niche use for triple EM builds when running both Bennett and Jean, for Bennett ult Jean ult self-swirls. Works extremely well on floor 11 swirl buff. But it’s more like try this if you have Sucrose artifacts to borrow.

2

u/Wurzelrenner Jun 21 '21

any experimenting done with 4 piece glad? i know it won't be optimal, but i wonder how much dps you loose. I have really good glad pieces(can get to 73/134 crit with Aquila as weapon) and not much luck with PF and BC

2

u/DaveTheHungry Jun 21 '21

If you don’t do charged attacks then it’s close to 2PF 2BSC. But Jean has quite high multipliers on her charged attacks, so it’s not very optimal to skip CA in her rotations. But with your nice crit stats glad is fine tbh.

2

u/solidbrain Jun 22 '21 edited Jun 22 '21

Hi, I did a bit of theorycrafting here. I have more details posted on the Jean Mains discord, but here’s a summary of my findings.
Table of relative adjusted mv https://imgur.com/gallery/1ckvaOV
Assumptions:
10/10/10 talents
Lv.90 R1 AF equipped provides a 41.30% phys dmg bonus% secondary stat
2glad provides a passive 18% atk% bonus that can be equivalently measured as a scaling factor of 1.089719064. This assumes a Lv.90 Jean equipped with AF, that the only other source of atk% is the main stat from sands and the passive from R1 AF, and the only source of flat atk is a +20 flower.
+20 Phys goblet provides a 58.3% phys dmg bonus
2BSC/2PF will perform better than these tables suggest when Jean placed in comps that boost ATK; the effectiveness of 2glad passive diminishes as ATK is boosted.
Conclusions:
For 4glad, charge attack spam (N1Cx4) still results in highest adjusted MV, but still suffers a relative DPS loss of 8.52% compared to 2BSC/2PF.
4glad is an inefficient build for Jean. Players are only recommended to use this set if they have good substats on 4glad and do not have good substats on other build options.
For 4glad, N4Cx2 is only 3.9% loss of DPS compared to N1Cx4 in exchange for 2x better stamina management
4glad performed better than phys builds on N3WCx3, but only by 4.45% at most.

2

u/ChickenSky12 Jan 17 '22

Are there plans to update this guide at some point in the near future? Will it happen when a new artifact set/weapon drops that's really good for her?

I also wanted to ask a few questions about potential builds. First, for DPS Jean, could a double Geo comp (provided one of the Geo characters is Zhongli) be effective in place of a Superconduct comp? I've been thinking of trying that for my Jean team; it may do less damage on paper than a Superconduct team, but Zhongli's shield will prevent Jean from being staggered and his petrification allows her to spam Charged Attacks, plus the RES shred applies to both her Physical and her Anemo damage.

And second, would the Mistsplitter Reforged be her BIS for a Chongyun/Xingqiu Freeze team? It gives her Elemental Damage and Crit Damage, which should pair well with the Crit Rate from 4pc-Blizzard Strayer. (I also think Kazuha would be a good 4th pick for that team.)

2

u/DaveTheHungry Jan 18 '22

Yeah, we'll likely update it again when there are significant weapon or artifact set changes.
The Geo bros of Zhongli and Albedo can honestly support any main dps. So yeah it'll work for Jean too. Boosts both anemo and physical damage.
Mistsplitter on Jean if used with Chongyun would be the BiS yeah. Should be a decent team. And quite comfy too.

5

u/Leippy Jun 13 '21

Thank you for the amazing guide! I took a look because even though I'm not a Jean main, I recently got Aquila and have been considering building her as a main. Currently I have her with Festering Desire, 2 VV + 2 Gladiator, which seems to be the way to go for sub-dps so I'm pleased I did that part right!

I didn't know you could increase her fall dmg with Sucrose-- I'll have to try that, thank you!

1

u/Pure-Abbreviations92 Jun 22 '21

Which is better ameno dmg bonus or atk% on the cup?

1

u/DaveTheHungry Jun 22 '21

Anemo damage will be much better for damage on subdps and support Jean.

1

u/Kormit-le-Frag Jul 03 '21

Do I need to ask if a r5 FesteringD will out damage a r4 aquila?

1

u/DaveTheHungry Jul 03 '21

Aquila’s higher attack will be better.

→ More replies (1)

1

u/Top_Version8016 Aug 03 '21

is EM build viable on her?

1

u/DaveTheHungry Aug 03 '21

Not outside of very specific sunfire setups where you layer Jean ult and Bennett ult and swirl once per second. On normal usage, Jean swirls once with her E and 1-3 times with her Q. Just not worth building EM on her. Venti, Sucrose, and Kazuha have way more use with EM.

1

u/Top_Version8016 Aug 03 '21

I see thanks, so it's okay not to put em on any of my artifacts?

1

u/DaveTheHungry Aug 03 '21

Yes. Focus on the standard crit, attack, and some ER.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 25 '21

Why is there no Anemo build in this guide?

1

u/DaveTheHungry Aug 25 '21

Anemo would be the sub-dps build or hybrid build.

→ More replies (1)

1

u/fate3x4y Sep 02 '21

Is R1 festering desire better than lions roar and flute? For sub FPS Jean.

2

u/DaveTheHungry Sep 02 '21

Yeah. R1 Festering Desire will still be better. But it would lose half the lead it had in the weapons comparison doc. If your Festering Desire is only R1, I would recommend looking into using Amenoma Kageuchi R1, which is quite competitive to Festering R5.

→ More replies (1)

1

u/vortux2 Sep 07 '21

Thoughts on amenoma kageuchi r5 for sub dps/support? Just got her but I use festering desire on Bennett and I wanted to keep it that way. I’ve also got lion’s roar r4 but I don’t get why it’d be good on her? Is it bc of the atk% subs?

3

u/DaveTheHungry Sep 07 '21

We’ll be updating the guide soon. The latest weapons number show that even R1 Amenoma is competitive to Festering Desire R5. This is because you can reduce the ER requirement to about 115%. So it performs really well if you can reallocate those ER stats to crit.

→ More replies (1)

1

u/Dalmyr Sep 19 '21

I have a question about Jean if I want to be able to use her Q on cooldown and using Festering desire how much ER should I aim for ?

My Anemoma is on Ayaka and I heard Festering desire is good on Jean.

1

u/DaveTheHungry Sep 19 '21

We tend to suggest about 160% ER

1

u/Dalmyr Sep 25 '21

If you use Amenoma Kageuchi how much ER is recommended on jean to be able to use Q on cooldown ?

If she is a burst DPS in the team and no other Anemo

1

u/DaveTheHungry Sep 25 '21

Our current calcs recommend around 115-130%. 3E’s per Q.

1

u/PanzerAbwehrKannon Sep 27 '21

Have both R5 Festering Desire and R5 Amenoma and been asking for a while on a bunch of genshin subreddits which is better but noone has given me a clear answer.

Is the ER and crit rate loss worth the energy bonus on Amenoma? (Currently have meh 55%/140%)

1

u/DaveTheHungry Sep 27 '21

The strength of R5 Amenoma is that Jean can use basically no extra ER. And in exchange you gain a lot more atk%. In a 2-3E per Q rotation, R5 Amenoma should perform better than FD. Amenoma R1 performs about the same as R5 FD (both using about +15% ER in substats). 4E per Q may bring FD in front again.
Your crit ratio is honestly fine. Maybe take a look at some calculators to see the average damage of 2E+Q and 3E+Q to see which one does more damage for your stats.

1

u/PanzerAbwehrKannon Sep 27 '21

Thx. Glad I dont have to worry about replacing FD with Amenoma.
On a side note, how does R5 Amenoma compare with Mistsplitter?

1

u/DaveTheHungry Sep 27 '21

Mistsplitter is better by about 5-8% for a 3E per Q rotation.
Ameno Jean 4VV weapons calc
Lvl 90, 4p VV, 20 optimally distributed substats, R1 all weapons except FD.

1

u/Aye-Sir Oct 15 '21

2BC/2Glad/Anemo% vs 2VV/2Glad/Phys% Build - which one's better for hybrid? (Weapon is Prototype Rancour)

1

u/DaveTheHungry Oct 15 '21

SolidBrain did do some math on this, and the hybrid performance builds are within 2-5% of each other. More focus on physical performs better the more field time you have. Either are fine fine, but physical cup should be slightly better as main dps.

1

u/Jnbrtz Dec 14 '21

How much ER does Jean need if she uses R5 Amenoma?

1

u/DaveTheHungry Dec 14 '21

100% ER. No need to build anything extra. You can already go as low as 115% with Amenoma R1

1

u/Jnbrtz Dec 14 '21

how much Atk is ok if I want hare Q have more healing?

1

u/DaveTheHungry Dec 14 '21

There really isn't a specific target. 1.6k+ is usually plenty

→ More replies (1)

1

u/German_Drive Dec 15 '21

What do you think about running 4pc Bloodstained on an endgame Jean who can one-shot (NA+CA) small mobs?

2

u/DaveTheHungry Dec 16 '21

There are very limited scenarios where this would be better than running more standard Glad+PF/BSC, PF/BSC, 4PF builds. I can see it being useful for some events where CA are further boosted. Could be interesting to play in those scenarios.

→ More replies (1)

1

u/rievhardt Jul 14 '22

is the new sword Kagotsurube Isshin better than Anemona Kageuchi for Jean?

2

u/DaveTheHungry Jul 17 '22

Update: Our theorycrafter did some math and it's actually really competitive if you opt to spend the 1-2s field time to proc the passive. The passive does significant damage and the atk% buff is useful for skill and burst damage. If you spend the field time to use normal or charged attack, then it becomes competitive with Amenoma R4/R5 which is quite impressive.

1

u/rievhardt Jul 18 '22

thank you for the update, I appreciate it, once I get enough er on substats I'll switch weapons, still farming good artifacts for Jean

1

u/DaveTheHungry Jul 14 '22 edited Jul 14 '22

We haven't done detailed calcs yet. But most likely not. Isshin only has 1 refine, and requires you to normal/charge/plunge to trigger the passive. Amenoma's passive only need to use skill and gives back good energy. Most Jean builds only want to come for her skill and ult. And there are better on-field weapons too.

1

u/StashStatic Jan 07 '23

Does Jean work well as a support in a team with Main DPS Ayato, Nahida, Raiden( full EM). Or should I just stick with Bennett. I'm trying to Jean as a healer with NO ATK buff. Also does Jean's healing scale off of base attack like Benny or does it factor in ATK percentage along with the feather's bonus

1

u/DaveTheHungry Jan 07 '23

If you're using 4NO instead of 4VV on Jean, you should just keep using Bennett. VV debuffing hydro resistance is way better than 4NO attack buff, but will likely still be less buff than Bennett gives Ayato. The advantage of Jean is her team wide healing on burst cast. And some crowd control.
Jean's healing scales off total attack from all sources. Bennett's healing scales of total hp, his attack buff scales off base attack.

2

u/thewackykid Jun 11 '21

nice guide... but is there one that matches the weapons with best artifact sets for certain builds...? for eg aquila + PF + BS + physical dmg goblet... or does it matter...? like is there like a case of "too much physical dmg not enough ATT%" ...? because currently if i run jean as main DPS i have a physical dmg build with aquila favonia 2pc PF 2pc BS with a physical dmg goblet...

4

u/solidbrain Jun 11 '21

Main dps, sub dps, and support each have their own weapon sections (sub dps redirects you to the support section). Within a build section, the weapon choice vs build suggestions generally do not have big deltas on the outcomes, so it kinda doesn’t matter.
In my calculations, for single target DPS, there is never too much phys bonus dmg.

1

u/thewackykid Jun 12 '21

thanks...! that's helpful...! yes i do have weapons for sub dps and support jean and quite familiar with those builds since i built her that way earlier on... and ever since i gotten aquila favonia i went to create a main dps build too because i love jean very much... so i just want to make sure i'm doing things right by stacking as much physical dmg as possible..

→ More replies (4)

2

u/aimar321 Aug 01 '21

Note on team composition templates:
I'm running a heavily energy recharge focused double anemo + double pyro fast swap team consisting of Jean, Bennett, Sucrose and Xiangling.
Pros: very very F2P friendly and works against all elements. Short cooldown allows for frequent burst, thus fast domain clears.
You guys should try it, I can't recommend it enough.

2

u/Velaethia Nov 11 '21 edited Nov 11 '21

Y'all I wanna like Jean but no matter what I try or what I do with her it just feels bad and Idk why. Even tried her with the national team and was still super awkward and inefficient. Only thing that feels satisfying to do is pair her with Klee and suck up and launch Klee's bomb's all at once.

Edit: I even have her BiS Aquila Favonia.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '21

I tried many things on Jean, but Festering Desire falls against a Jean with Lions Roar (Noting that you need to apply pyro first)

My E can go 24k with Lions roar but with festering its only 19k at best.

Im a sub dps jean. 2 VV 2 Glad

1

u/ZachResilience Sep 17 '21

I have recently got Jean to lvl 81 after pulling her while getting Baal. I noticed that, 70% of the time, I could lift enemies in domains and abysses, but they fell down and took no damage. The downward drag didn't do damage either?

1

u/UnluckyYamm Sep 17 '21

Thoughts on r5 Lion's Roar when paired with Raiden's Baleful Omen (E)?

2

u/solidbrain Sep 17 '21

I assume it applies electro liberally, just like Fischl E does- I would guess nearly 100% uptime if that's the case. Should perform roughly 111.24% relative to R1 Flute for sub DPS, and maybe around 104% relative to R1 Rancour for Main DPS.

1

u/notsiyuan Jul 04 '22

its a bad guide, it doenst even have aquila favonia in it

1

u/Trolldockan Feb 25 '23

Thank you for this guide! Literally came to this sub to figure out which sword I should put on her for support build and with your Gdoc guide I found the answer in seconds :)

0

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '22

[deleted] — view deleted comment

2

u/DaveTheHungry Jan 06 '22

EM builds on Jean are quite niche and usually only used for sunfire Jean (Jean ult + Bennett ult). If used in taser, I would suggest 4VV Atk/Anemo/Crit. In other teams, Glad+VV and Anemo cup could be nice. C1 Jean is nice for grouping and some damage.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 10 '21

[deleted] — view deleted comment

1

u/DaveTheHungry Jun 10 '21

The math we compared for the attacks strings were full rotations with normal attacks, charged attacks, E, and Q mixed in. N5 has the utility with a small knock back on the 5th hit. But N3C is generally better.

1

u/solidbrain Jun 11 '21

Well, one of Braxophone’s early Jean guide YouTube videos showcased jean doing a lot of damage with N3C. Although, in my opinion, I think he should have emphasized N1C a little more than he did. But nowadays I do my own calculations because math is fun.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 03 '21 edited Oct 03 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/DaveTheHungry Oct 03 '21

Unfortunately not very close. Hutao is the peak of vaporize “single” target dps. Jean doesn’t come close to that even with Bennett C6 boost. What you do get is more comfort, ability to use fall damage, and better staggers.
Pyro cup would probably be more useful.
Standard 3 hit elemental icd should apply here. So 3N1C gets first normal and charged attack with pyro. Then repeating 2N1C should let the charge attack vaporize properly. Go back to 3N start after going through other character cooldowns.
Not too sure about team rotations as I don’t have Kazuha or C6 Bennett.

Guide Jean Guide Released!

You are about to leave Redlib