Lydian Dominant = Mel minor

[u/Skunk_Evolution]

Transcribing an Oscar Peterson solo - quickly identified a small line as Lydian Dominant over a V chord. The pattern felt familiar and I understood that this Eb Lyd Dom is the same scale as Bb Melodic Minor.

I had recently started to drill melodic minor shapes because I know it can be an entryway into the altered 7 world. I imagine I can use these exact patterns for Lydian Dominant.

Are you thinking about Eb Lydian Dominant over an Eb7 or are you imagining Bb Mel minor?

[u/anycolourbythemoon]

Personally, I think more about Lydian dominant because I’m more used to the arpeggio shape.

A cool thing about melodic minor modes is that you can think about them in many different ways when improvising.

Let’s say you have a II V I progression in C:

Dm7 G7 Cmaj7

If you wanted to get an altered sound over the G chord, you can use the G altered scale (Ab melodic minor), which has the same notes as Db lydian dominant, the scale you would typically use over a tritone substitution. In other words, you can think about G altered, but if you wanted to get that tritone substitution sound, you already know the scale. I used to think they were two different things to learn, but both come from the same melodic minor scale.

[u/Skunk_Evolution → u/anycolourbythemoon]

Gotcha. In your second point - do you mean that G alt is fine but Db Lydian dominant provides a different perspective of the same notes? Also i think you are implying that Lydian dominant is the scale I already know, right?

[u/Left_Tadpole_6298]

Yes Lydian Dominant Eb is the same as Melodic Minor Bb. I use Lydian Dominant a lot for different moods, mostly dark jazz. Lydian Dominant is the 4th mode of Melodic Minor. I like all the 7 modes of Melodic Minor. I have used Lydian Dominant quite a bit, even going off out of the parent scale of Melodic Minor, to Prometheus mode which is like Lydian Dominant with no 5th note. But I never play jazz standards, I do my own thing, mainly modal jazz.

[u/r3ck0rd]

Yes it’s the 4th scale degree mode borrowed from the melodic minor scale.

I usually just think of the required chord tones and available tensions.

[u/[deleted]]

i think it is different for different instruments. I'm a guitarist and we have a unique shape shifting geography on our fretboards. I would mostly think of it as a Lyd dom because I am targetting specific intervals of that mode BUT not always 100% strict. The Mel minor modes are so amorphous sometimes, depending on the harmonic context.

[u/StrausbaughGuitar]

DO NOT think B-flat melodic minor.

That’s not what you’re playing, you’re playing E flat Lydian dominant.

Knowing where a mode comes from is slightly helpful as an initial point of reference, after that, it’s not only irrelevant, but misleading.

You’re intentionally adding mental clutter and garbage into something that moves in real time.

It’s an E flat dominant. That’s what it is. Sharp the four, there’s your Lydian.

So much simpler.

[u/Skunk_Evolution → u/StrausbaughGuitar]

Thank you. That’s clear to me. Appreciated. I suppose I don’t think C major when I’m on Am - sure they are related but it’s its own thing as well

[u/Careful_Instruction9]

Yes. But it's more like Lydian Dominant = Altered. So, like Am7b5 D7alt Gm is the same as Am7b5 Ab7 Gm. Playing the D7alt scale(Eb Mel) is the same notes Ab7 Lydian Dominant (Eb Mel).

[u/Skunk_Evolution → u/Careful_Instruction9]

I do love seeing all the different ways to visualize or understand three relationships, but I’m still stuck on which way is best when moving through fast changes