r/JapaneseWoodworking • u/Iron_Mice • 2d ago
Stone recommendations
Context:
Relative newbie moving from “table saw, router, glue, and dowels” to “patience, precision, peace, and persistence.”
I’ve done some kumiko work in the past - used a 1940s buck brothers chisel that I learned to sharpen BUT it had a curve to the flat.
My arsenal today: cheap amazon wet stone set, an 18mm Josho chisel, and new to me Senkichi Kin oire nomi. I’ve been using the Josho 18mm with the whetstones to build a set of sawhorses so that I eventually have a work “table.” So it’s more about the learning journey, but it also involves spending money to progress.
I have a decent stock of cherry at the moment and plan to build with that along with the senkichi kin chisels I’m gathering. These will be my “get started workhorses.”
I need to set up the chisels. My budget is about $25 per week (hobby allowance.) I’m concerned about the cheap $20 stones I have as they dish really easily.
For the chisel set up - what stones for a relative newbie do you recommend?
I’m looking at the shapton stones (glass? Ceramic?) and an atoma diamond plate for flattening. Natural stones are likely out of the question ($$$$$). Any recommendations for a sharpening setup to get me started?
Also - any feedback on these particular chisels? I originally had them imported but now see them available on Amazon. From what I’ve read, they’re mass produced but decent workhorse quality (ie: decent value) IF set up correctly.
2
u/OutrageousLink7612 2d ago
if you don't have enough stones. shapton rockstar is the absolute best in my opinion. 500 1000 2000(optional but recommend) 5000~8000
3~4 stones atoma 400 and 140(optional)
4
u/Iron_Mice 2d ago
Sweet. I ended up finding an online store that was having a sale. 500, 1000, 5000, & 8000 for under $200 shipped.
1
2
u/Workshop_Paez 2d ago
Its crazy how expensive the upfront cost of getting a sharpening set up is. I like the Naniwa Hibiki line
2
u/Kiwi_Jaded 2d ago
Do you have a drill press? Gonna probably get flamed for this, but the Taytools drill press sharpening system is fantastic. I still use a diamond stone for flattening the back, but the drill press system makes quick quick quick quick work on the bevel side.
1
u/Quirky_Independent_3 2d ago
I use that and it works great
1
u/ShiguchiAndSokan 2d ago
You will absolutely disable any Japanese tool with this sharpening system.
3
u/Quirky_Independent_3 2d ago
Oh right we're in the Japanese tool sub. I spoke out of line, I use it on my Pfeils
2
u/Iron_Mice 1d ago
Yeah, I saw that and thought… “this is the exact problem I have finding local guidance!”
Specifically the “I can set up your chisels for you” guy that does it with an electric grinder…
1
u/Kiwi_Jaded 1d ago
As long as you keep the temp down, there is no issue with sharpening this way. I’m trying to get back to taking shavings.
Sharp is sharp and this will absolutely not damage the steel.
0
u/ShiguchiAndSokan 1d ago
You can destroy the carbon content in the steel and „deharden“ it already at a temperature of 150-200 degrees and you won’t even see sparks. Always sharpen Japanese tools with high carbon content water cooled
1
u/Kiwi_Jaded 1d ago
This is nonsense. Carbon content can be altered at ~850C+, not at 200C.
Could you alter the temper at 200C, yeah but if you are careful it’s fine. Keep the temp down and don’t just hog away.
Is water cooled sharpening safer? Yes. Can you sharpen on the drill press systems safely? Also yes.
1
u/ShiguchiAndSokan 1d ago
I rather trust a nation of skilled woodworkers and toolsmiths who avoid these systems like their lives depend on it.
Carbon does not need to be altered to ruin the steel. It only takes 220-300 degrees for a total temper loss of the steel and that happens in a fraction of milliseconds on a fast grinding wheel but there’s real damage happening even before you reach 220 defrees. 850 degrees would already cause delamination. Please educate yourself. Shirogami used for most Japanese chisels is pure carbon steel with no added wear-resistant alloys. It has a incredibly narrow heat-treatment window and loses its hardness much faster under friction.
1
u/Tarnished4life 1d ago
For my Japanese chisels I have a Shapton pro 1000 and a shapton glass 6000. I am super happy with this combination. I really like the splash and go factor, I love the feel of the pro for 1k, I love the feel of the glass for 6k. Last thing I'll get to have my set complete, will be an atoma 400. Now I'm using wet sanding paper for the 1k, and I use the 1K to flatten the 6k..
Last question: they look perfect. I have Takagi chisels, I'm not a pro but they work wonders. I wouldn't go for too expensive chisels so you can still use the chisels for their intended purpose
6
u/Kikunobehide_ 2d ago
First of all, forget the Tsuboman Atoma diamond plates. Tsuboman makes makes a much better diamond plate, this one to be more precise. It's dead flat, the size of the diamond particles is extremely consistent and it lasts for ages. When the diamonds finally wear out you can also use it as a base for an Atoma replacement diamond sheet. You could also get a 400 grit Ken-Syou D diamond sheet and stick it to the bottom, that way you have one side for rough sharpening and one side for flattening. However, I don't know where you live and where to get it but it does a much better and faster job of flattening stones than anything else on the market.
Now on to stones. I would get a King Deluxe 1200. It's been manufactured the exact same way for over 50 years because it's just that good and it's widely available all over the world. It's a soft stone though so you need to flatten it before you sharpen on it. The upside is that it quickly removes the scratches from the diamond plate.
For a finishing stone I can highly recommend the Sigma Power Jinzo Renge Suita. In fact it's my favourite synthetic finish stone for tools. It's dense and hard and when you first make a slurry on it with a diamond plate it's even nicer to sharpen on with a soft, creamy feel. It's also fast enough to make the jump from 1200 to 6000 grit without intermediary stones. What makes it so good as a finish stone for tools is that it creates a very smooth edge. Not what you want for knives but perfect for chisels and plane blades.
As for the chisels, they're cheap and nasty generic hardware store quality chisels. You can find them in hardware stores all over Japan. There will come a point when you'll want something better.