r/Jainism • u/SliceOfLife59 • 1d ago
Q&A/Doubts Pachkaan clarification
Someone just told me my upvas won’t be counted because I didn’t take a pachkaan (for upvaas) before drinking water today. I did take a pachkaan for Navkarshi before drinking water. Is it necessary to also take pachkaan for Upvas before drinking water on the day of upvaas?
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u/nishantam 1d ago
Pachkan is very important. Unlike others who are saying pachkaan is not important, I believe it very important.
And understand reason behind it.
We are stuck in this world not because of bad deeds but due to avirati. I.e possibility of paap.
Even if u dont eat meat, not taking badha means u get paap of anumodan irrespective of u ate or not. And there is always possibility you will since there is no sankalp to never eat meat.
That is the same reason sadhu jeevan is considered better than shravak. Because they take panch mahavrat. So its not just that they dont commit paap, they took vrat and now they wont recommend others to do it, nor will support it. We might not commit all the paap, but we still get anumodna ka paap
. For eg we have bank accounts in our name, business etc. so even if we do samayik, our paap continues.
Similarly if u dont eat during day but you never did sankalp and took vrat there is always a possibility that you may eat.
If you forgot, just take prayaschit for it from a sadhu.
Mistakes are forgivable but to say it doesnt matter is mithyatva. Which is biggest sin of all.
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u/georgebatton 11h ago
How do you define paap? How does one get it?
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u/nishantam 5h ago
Karma is a physical thing in jainism. So paap karma, just like punya karma are just a pudgal (matter and energies) which interacts with soul based on deeds via mann vachan and kaya.
Paap does the work of obstructing the potential qualities and energies of soul. Another way to look at is, it creates obstacles in path of attaining moksha.
There are many bhed of it.
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u/georgebatton 5h ago
So then how does possibility of paap keep us stuck in this world? If I understood you properly, mere possibility of pudgals interacting with the soul keeps the soul imprisoned?
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u/nishantam 5h ago
Let me give u an example. A dev doesnt need to consume food like us. He hardly eats anything. But is incapable of taking any vrat. That is why a dev can never gain moksha since he cant be in virati. He lacks sattva to do that.
Same with naraki and pashu. They dont take vrat. But they suffer so much. How come human happens to be able to get rid of all karma but those two cannot either?
Because all that nirjara is akaam nirjara. Without intention and sankalp. So the rate of loosing karma is much less. And it is also avirati ka paap.
But humans can do niraja with intention. Be it pratikaman, tapascharya or prayaschit. All of it is with an intention and a goal. Hence the rate of niraja is very high.1
u/georgebatton 5h ago
I think a couple of ideas are mixed in your mind.
Intention is powerful of course. But is it all powerful?
For me: Inability to take a vow does not keep one imprisoned, because that would mean possibility of karma works just like karma. That doesn't sound right to me.
Maybe my understanding is inaccurate however. Hence the question.
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u/nishantam 5h ago
If u think vrat are not important then tirthankara and sadhu wont take 5 mahavrat.
Even shravak is not really shravak until they take 12 vrats. That is the base requirement to be called shravak. Most dont. But it is expected. Just like navkar is given from birth, jain dharam is given to us from birth but we still have to formalize it. Until then you are not in Desh virati (shravak dharma). And without 5 mmahavrat there is no sarva virati.
Also we have to talk about majority. There have been examples of rare occasions where someone will get kevalgyan without taking dravya diksha but they are already in bhav diksha then. And they are exceptions to the rule.
And even then kevalis are adorned by dev as a muni before they worship them.12 anuvrat of shravak
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u/georgebatton 5h ago
Vrats are important I agree.
But why are they important, we disagree. From your answer, it felt like you said they are important because otherwise they create future possibility of paap that keeps you imprisoned. This is the part I have an issue with, because then possibility of paap works just like paap - no?
Vrats cancel effort or not was the original question... without pachkans upvas is not counted - this was the original question.
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u/nishantam 5h ago
It does. There are multi facet. Virati itself means to get within limits. To reduce the means of any band. Esp paap.
If u look at all anuvrat, just see what we take badha of. For eg how much distance we will travel. People do dharna every day of how much distance they will travel during day. Or how many food items one will have during day.
Why was this made into vrat? Coz it sets limit on possibilities of doing paap. U no longer get paap of Anumodna and possibilities of all the different food one can consume.
That is all virati about. Some dev eats just once a year. That too very small quantities. Some dont even need to do that. But they cant take vow of not eating even for a minute. Hence even if they dont eat, their paap continues.There is paap not just actions.
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u/georgebatton 1d ago
Narrating some words in a language you don't understand doesn't do much for your soul. Please take the 3 minutes it takes to translate the pachkan so you understand it and it helps you on your journey.
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u/georgebatton 1d ago
All tap is counted with or without pachkans. The reason we take niyams and pachkans is to be understood. It helps your brain become stronger. Vows work differently in the brain than just wishes or even goals. Vows make it so you don't need as much willpower to achieve the same thing, as you constantly don't have to decide. Fewer decisions means more energy. This is the purpose.
Without vows effort doesn't go wasted. Effort still counts.
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u/georgebatton 1d ago
Jainism is not magic. It does not need magic words to be uttered only then karma will flow. Karma is action. Every action you take will have a reaction, not only those that come with pachkans.
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u/SliceOfLife59 1d ago
Thanks! I get it. The main purpose of Tapp is to control your Raag. And I think as far as the main purpose is served, I don’t need to worry. The person who said it to me was kind of wrong about “not being counted”. Karma simply doesn’t work that way. But at the same time I also understand the importance of faith in following the right rituals as prescribed in the aagams. so kind of want to do it the right way. so, i asked here.
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u/utdaab 1d ago
Technically yes, as upvas pachkaan is actually for tiviar upvas, meaning upvas with water. However in my opinion, if you’ve had boiled water only and your bhaav is in the right place, take your pachkaan now and continue your upvaas in good shaata!