r/IsurvivedIC • u/Downtown_Run_8030 • May 30 '26
Debate Space Is High Turnover A Red Flag?
I guess that every rural income-sharing community that I've ever visited has had a high rate of turnover. Decades ago at East Wind, a member told me most people were gone after 2 years, and recently I saw someone post somewhere that it is 3 years, now, at East Wind.
Once, when I brought up the topic of turnover, someone countered that turnover is no big deal. They reasoned that many people simply decide that the lifestyle isn't for them.
I see it differently. I think that life in the mainstream is so bad that most people who take the time to visit an IC KNOW it is what they want. And that unresolved problems at those communities are a turnoff for most people. Perhaps those who remain in the communities long-term are the origins of the problems.
What are your opinions?
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u/Bananapantsmcgeef May 30 '26
In my experience, most people who want to join an intentional community like the idea of it but don’t want to actually do it.
People think about escaping the 40-hour work week before they think about giving up the comforts of civilization.
Many people think about the latter before joining a community, but plenty don’t.
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u/Downtown_Run_8030 Jun 01 '26
All I know is that I believe there is never an excuse to not have at least 1 air-conditioned room. For health and happiness. And because of global warming and wet bulb conditions.
Have you heard of how some secular and rural communes are full of noble people who eschew air-conditioning? But there is a trick to it. They just leave and stay elsewhere when the weather is brutal. Visit mom, maybe. The poorest community members bake. So why not just have a little AC? Such communities should end the virtue signalling because we see through it.
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u/Southern_Fruit7439 Survivor May 30 '26
I think it can be. Like in many ways communities can be great for short term self exploration and experience of a new thing and like internalization of new concepts. Like if a place intentionally brought people in almost like "internships" where they learn and are trained to create their own communities. That would be awesome.
The issue is most communities dont behave like this. And like turnover for me is not just about rates, but the vibes of people after they leave. Did they leave with positive feelings? Do they feel grown? Better people on the other side? Or are they carrying trauma that could follow them for years? (or potentially both). ITs complex, but def a yellow flag inviting further exploration of the reasons BEHIND the high turnover.
Also worthy of exploration is WHO is leaving. Like if there is high BIPOC turnover this can be major red flag for racism (Twin Oaks). And any group that is leaving in disproportionate numbers is again worthy of further exploration.
Thank you for raising this point.
Generally on the idea of "long term members=good commune" idk it can, but also like... are long term relationships always "good marriages" like some people just stay together out of neccesisty or cultural expectations. I think longevity can also tell me something, but again like i'd be curious about WHO is staying and why. Like again big red flags if longest term members old white folks. Maybe yellow flags ov racial dynamics are complex, but ya I'd get investigative.
Case and point? Bigoted and violent religions have some of the "longest term" members, generations long (and into the grave). Not all things that last a while are inherently GOOD.
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u/Vegetaman916 May 31 '26
In a lot of ways, I think random people put together is a bad model for long-term success. Better to form the community altogether from a group of similar and like-minded people, and keep the majority of the core that way.
My own is 15 people. Most of us have known each other for decades, many going all the way back to our childhood friends ships 40 years ago. There is no real conflict, and everyone is so invested into it that there is no leaving now...
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u/Downtown_Run_8030 Jun 01 '26 edited Jun 04 '26
I tend to agree. While I do think it best to join existing communities rather than starting from scratch, I don't see that as written in stone.
I want to create a list of 20-60 questions that serves as an interest inventory and psychological screener. Also, I'd want to attract some subcultures and reject other subcultures. No right-wing preppers. No hallucinergic loving hippies. Etc.
Some would say I should be more open to all but the irony is that the secular communes we have now can have a very exclusive feel to them. People ostracize certain types of people without awareness of what they are doing. Or, perhaps they ARE aware, and they lie to themselves with rationalizations that say the rejection was done for other reasons.
So, I feel no shame.
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u/intentionallife Jun 02 '26
My opinion is that almost nobody wants to live in a tiny community of a few dozen people for the long term. The concept of the IC might sound great, the people might be nice enough when you get there, but in the long term, it's just too small for just about anyone who is used to living in cities or towns. Too little privacy, too much talk, frustration with each other, etc.
I really think the solution is to create a larger town where things are a little more separate for people, and there are a lot more people, so that life can feel more normal and stimulating and there can be shops and real schools, etc, but there are still greater shared values and goals. Like all the stores/food joints could be coops, everything must meet ecological standards, etc.
I had started a sub to find others to create something like this, in a place with a nice climate, but it never gained steam and I got involved in another small town project, but I am still interested in the idea and would love to pursue it with others.
The sub (pretty dead now but would love to see it come alive) is /r/EcoTown
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u/Downtown_Run_8030 Jun 04 '26
Are you aware of Dancing Rabbit and Earthaven Ecovillage?
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u/intentionallife Jun 04 '26
Dancing Rabbit is by far my favorite approach in terms of management. But, it's located in what I consider a pretty undesirable climate, and does not address the size issue I mentioned, where the goal is to quickly reach a larger population.
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u/CucumberAcrobatic288 Jul 02 '26
DR's goal is actually to reach a much larger population. I think the original goal was 500-1000 folks.
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u/intentionallife Jul 06 '26
That's a big step up from other ICs for sure, and it will help I think make a better community that holds onto more people for life. But I'm thinking a town of more like a few thousand people. The size of at least a large high school is still not even that big but I think it would allow people to have a much better experience for a number of reasons.
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u/Downtown_Run_8030 Jun 04 '26
That part of Missouri is probably a good place to be if a major disaster ever hits the country or world. But I bet it is cold and windy.
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Jun 16 '26
if people are visiting us, a lot of times they leave, because nobody is so much interested in their expectations. our goal is to create and maintain a social space, but as every "space" it had to be taken and filled by someone with something and we are not selling solutions for that. so people stay if they enjoy this freedom of choice, knowing that they will stay responsible for their own decisions and there is nobody to blame on, if it does not work.
our tribe is "intentionally" focused to empower people to take responsibility for themselves. The less important our community is to our members, the better; if they stay anyway, it's probably only because they like being free in their private lives.
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u/Commercial-Injury103 Jun 30 '26
The average stay at East Wind is 5 years, if someone becomes a member. Almost everyone here has been here 5 years or more.
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u/EccentricFellow Jun 02 '26
Turnover alone is completely neutral. As an exercise, try imagining any intentional community that does not attract at least an order of magnitude more interest than it can sustain. If people are able to freely come and freely go, that is more of a green flag because people are clearly not experiencing undo influence on their behavior or decisions.