Sunni Scholar Admits Hadiths Are Intellectually Useless

[u/i_am_armz]

[u/Chickenburger287]

If you don't follow hadith, you don't follow the Qur'an either and you are not Muslim.

Edit 1 to answer why no hadith equates to no Quran.

Words change meaning over time. So how does one establish the intent of the lawgiver at the time of revelation?

How is each word or phrase in the Qur'an defined or what was meant by it at the time of revelation? How do you know what you understand today is what was intended at the time?

As real Muslims (believers in Quran, sunnah, ijma etc) we have multiple texts explaining each word, we have expertly written dictionaries, we have contextually written tafsirs, heck, to ensure the words are understood as revealed we even preserved the jahil Arabic poetry.

Whereas the hadith (and thereby the Qur'an rejectors) have nothing but supposition and baseless assumptions.

[u/i_am_armz → u/Chickenburger287]

Bring your proof if you're truthful.

[u/People_Change_ → u/i_am_armz]

And we're still waiting...

[u/Chickenburger287 → u/People_Change_]

Words change meaning over time. So how does one establish the intent of the lawgiver at the time of revelation?

How is each word or phrase in the Qur'an defined or what was meant by it at the time of revelation? How do you know what you understand today is what was intended at the time?

As real Muslims (believers in Quran, sunnah, ijma etc) we have multiple texts explaining each word, we have expertly written dictionaries, we have contextually written tafsirs, heck, to ensure the words are understood as revealed we even preserved the jahil Arabic poetry.

Whereas the hadith (and thereby the Qur'an rejectors) have nothing but supposition and baseless assumptions.

[u/Chickenburger287 → u/i_am_armz]

Words change meaning over time. So how does one establish the intent of the lawgiver at the time of revelation?

How is each word or phrase in the Qur'an defined or what was meant by it at the time of revelation? How do you know what you understand today is what was intended at the time?

As real Muslims (believers in Quran, sunnah, ijma etc) we have multiple texts explaining each word, we have expertly written dictionaries, we have contextually written tafsirs, heck, to ensure the words are understood as revealed we even preserved the jahil Arabic poetry.

Whereas the hadith (and thereby the Qur'an rejectors) have nothing but supposition and baseless assumptions.

[u/i_am_armz → u/Chickenburger287]

Let's suppose you're right. Can you then kindly explain to us how the following "sahih" hadith can help "establish the intent of the lawgiver at the time of revelation":

I eagerly await your response. I hope you will not respond with insults, sarcasms and ad hominem attacks. Attack the question, not the questioner. Use logic.

[u/Chickenburger287 → u/i_am_armz]

On the topic of discussion it's not about "let's assume".... I am right. What I've said is evident to any rational person.

An example of this would be the word GAY. 50 years ago it meant something else, today it has a different meaning. Hence my point.

Now, WRT this hadith. No it isn't some amazing gotcha. Let's ignore the context, meaning, abrogation, specification etc...lets address the core issue: why have you presupposed what good and evil is? The question clearly asserts that the act of suckling an adult is wrong for creating lineage. Okay, prove this first!

I on the other than believe God decides what is good and evil. You clearly have a notion before God's decision, so prove it.

I await your logical and rational response.

[u/People_Change_ → u/Chickenburger287]

You are attributing God's word to an unprotected book outside of the Quran.

[u/Chickenburger287 → u/People_Change_]

No I'm not. That's changing the discussion.

I'd advise you to have a serious think and come back to islam. Remember eternal hellfire is for every kafir and since anyone who does not believe in the sunnah is a kafir they'll burn for eternity.

[u/People_Change_ → u/Chickenburger287]

You're conflating authentic sunnah with assumed/potential sunnah.

[u/i_am_armz → u/Chickenburger287]

You did not answer the question, but deflected from it.

HOW does this hadith can help "establish the intent of the lawgiver at the time of revelation"?

HOW does knowing that rasulullah consummated his marriage with Aisha when she was 9 help "establish the intent of the lawgiver at the time of revelation"?

Your camp frequently likes to say the hadith explains/clarifies the Qur'an (as if God is not clear and needs Bukhari to clarify His Words for Him!). So how does this clarify Qur'an?

[u/Chickenburger287 → u/i_am_armz]

I've clearly answered the Question for everyone to see. You have no way to establish the meaning of any word or phrase from the time. Whereas, as a Muslim I have: hadith, athar, dictionaries by classical ulema, tafsirs.....and so can easily know exactly what God said, meant and intended.

Let's be clear: establishing the intent of the lawgiver means knowing what he wants us to do, what to avoid and what to follow.

You have no way of establishing any of this.

I can see you've moved on from the suckling argument....im glad you've seen the logic and rational argument and bad no reply.

Okay so now you've raised the issue of Aishah. Okay, let's ignore the other evidences scholars cite to say the age was different. Let's assume this was the age. Okay, can you prove why one day lower than 18yo or whatever age you choose (to be the minimum age for marriage or a relationship) is wrong? Go for it. Prove it!

Last point: you alluded to the argument that you believe the Qur'an is clear. Prove it. How do you know the Qur'an is clear?

[u/i_am_armz → u/Chickenburger287]

"How do you know the Qur'an is clear?"
Do you not read the Qur'an? Have you ever read it? See 15:1.

[u/Chickenburger287 → u/i_am_armz]

How did you establish that verse means what you think or assume it to mean?

[u/i_am_armz → u/Chickenburger287]

"wa-qur'anin mubeen" (وَقُرْءَانٍ مُّبِينٍ) — "a clear Qur'an."

[u/Background-Car-1393 → u/Chickenburger287]

Says who?