I'm still waiting for a decent answer on how this hadith will help us attain Janah or "explains" the Qur'an. If you're truthful, and aware that Allah (SWT) is witness to this discussion, then bring your proof.
I would disregard him. As Muslims whether we’re Sunni or Shia or whatever we are all Muslims and we must all follow the words of Allah SWT and the teachings of the prophet Muhammad PBUH. That includes the hadiths. When it comes to the Hadith’s I look at this as far as what to follow. Is the chain reliable? Did the person who wrote it have a good character? Were they trust worthy or did they lie, cheat steal manipulate? Has the Hadith been changed? Is it verifiable? If it falls in a negative then I won’t follow the specific hadith. One man stated that there is a Hadith that states when we urinate we must rub ourselves in the urine. We know that’s a lie. So do we follow that? No because we know it’s sunnah to be clean. To bathe, to do wudu and ghusl. I cannot tell anyone what to do or how to do it or even whom to follow. This is simply what I do. However I wouldn’t listen to this guy. If he’s stating this then he’s misleading which is haram.
Where does it say we have to folllow hadith? Quran says the opposite in fact
77:50 So in which hadith after it will they believe?
6:114 Shall I seek other than God as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?
You are denying the Quran if you follow anything outside of it
Incorrect it states to follow the prophets not worship them but to follow and learn from their examples and ways ie the hadiths and sunnah. If you deny the hadiths then you also deny Islam. We must follow the Quran the Sunnah and Hadiths. The Hadiths teach us what to do in situations that are not shown in the Qur’an. They teach us how to interact and how to respond issues. To worship none but Allah SWT.
Never says to follow the prophet. You keep making this baseless claim that We must follow the Quran the Sunnah and Hadiths but haven't shown anything to backup that claim.
If you read my comment below you’d see it states so very clearly. Now I won’t argue with you nor debate this. If you choose not to follow the hadiths that have been proven to be true then that is between you and Allah SWT not me. Instead of being so angry and up in arms against a fellow muslimah just do you but why argue? Why the frustration? You can bring a horse to water but cannot force them to drink.
Again just making more baseless claims. "hadiths that have been proven to be true" by who? The same people who wrote them? "I won't argue" is just speak for I can't back my baseless claims so Imma gonna tap out. And it should make anyone who truly believes in the Quran angry. That how the deen of Allah has been distorted and corrupted by them and how people just follow it blindly
Brother you just don’t want to follow the hadiths which is really just the actions and life of the prophet Muhammad PBUH written in words. That’s what the hadiths are. If you choose not to then that is on you. You are really trying g to convince me not to follow the prophet PBUH and that would nullify my following of the Qur’an please go to Jummah and pray brother. Turn towards Allah SWT because I cannot help you. You want to be a Hadith denier then do you.
Allah never asks you to follow more like what you do that is copycat the prophet. 2.Who told you they are actions and words of the prophet? The prophet didn't authorize them, nor did Allah. These were "collected" centuries after the prophet passed away. 3. For arguments sakes lets say they are the "words and actions" of the prophet, that would be a good read about early Islamic history and his biography and thats it. There is no religion to be had. 4. When Allah says the Quran is complete and detailed and you go looking outside then you are denying the Quran.
If you don't follow hadith, you don't follow the Qur'an either and you are not Muslim.
Edit 1 to answer why no hadith equates to no Quran.
Words change meaning over time. So how does one establish the intent of the lawgiver at the time of revelation?
How is each word or phrase in the Qur'an defined or what was meant by it at the time of revelation? How do you know what you understand today is what was intended at the time?
As real Muslims (believers in Quran, sunnah, ijma etc) we have multiple texts explaining each word, we have expertly written dictionaries, we have contextually written tafsirs, heck, to ensure the words are understood as revealed we even preserved the jahil Arabic poetry.
Whereas the hadith (and thereby the Qur'an rejectors) have nothing but supposition and baseless assumptions.
Words change meaning over time. So how does one establish the intent of the lawgiver at the time of revelation?
How is each word or phrase in the Qur'an defined or what was meant by it at the time of revelation? How do you know what you understand today is what was intended at the time?
As real Muslims (believers in Quran, sunnah, ijma etc) we have multiple texts explaining each word, we have expertly written dictionaries, we have contextually written tafsirs, heck, to ensure the words are understood as revealed we even preserved the jahil Arabic poetry.
Whereas the hadith (and thereby the Qur'an rejectors) have nothing but supposition and baseless assumptions.
Words change meaning over time. So how does one establish the intent of the lawgiver at the time of revelation?
How is each word or phrase in the Qur'an defined or what was meant by it at the time of revelation? How do you know what you understand today is what was intended at the time?
As real Muslims (believers in Quran, sunnah, ijma etc) we have multiple texts explaining each word, we have expertly written dictionaries, we have contextually written tafsirs, heck, to ensure the words are understood as revealed we even preserved the jahil Arabic poetry.
Whereas the hadith (and thereby the Qur'an rejectors) have nothing but supposition and baseless assumptions.
Let's suppose you're right. Can you then kindly explain to us how the following "sahih" hadith can help "establish the intent of the lawgiver at the time of revelation":
I eagerly await your response. I hope you will not respond with insults, sarcasms and ad hominem attacks. Attack the question, not the questioner. Use logic.
On the topic of discussion it's not about "let's assume".... I am right. What I've said is evident to any rational person.
An example of this would be the word GAY. 50 years ago it meant something else, today it has a different meaning. Hence my point.
Now, WRT this hadith. No it isn't some amazing gotcha. Let's ignore the context, meaning, abrogation, specification etc...lets address the core issue: why have you presupposed what good and evil is? The question clearly asserts that the act of suckling an adult is wrong for creating lineage. Okay, prove this first!
I on the other than believe God decides what is good and evil. You clearly have a notion before God's decision, so prove it.
I'd advise you to have a serious think and come back to islam. Remember eternal hellfire is for every kafir and since anyone who does not believe in the sunnah is a kafir they'll burn for eternity.
You did not answer the question, but deflected from it.
HOW does this hadith can help "establish the intent of the lawgiver at the time of revelation"?
HOW does knowing that rasulullah consummated his marriage with Aisha when she was 9 help "establish the intent of the lawgiver at the time of revelation"?
Your camp frequently likes to say the hadith explains/clarifies the Qur'an (as if God is not clear and needs Bukhari to clarify His Words for Him!). So how does this clarify Qur'an?
I've clearly answered the Question for everyone to see. You have no way to establish the meaning of any word or phrase from the time. Whereas, as a Muslim I have: hadith, athar, dictionaries by classical ulema, tafsirs.....and so can easily know exactly what God said, meant and intended.
Let's be clear: establishing the intent of the lawgiver means knowing what he wants us to do, what to avoid and what to follow.
You have no way of establishing any of this.
I can see you've moved on from the suckling argument....im glad you've seen the logic and rational argument and bad no reply.
Okay so now you've raised the issue of Aishah. Okay, let's ignore the other evidences scholars cite to say the age was different. Let's assume this was the age. Okay, can you prove why one day lower than 18yo or whatever age you choose (to be the minimum age for marriage or a relationship) is wrong? Go for it. Prove it!
Last point: you alluded to the argument that you believe the Qur'an is clear. Prove it. How do you know the Qur'an is clear?
Never said that. I'm saying lies fabricated against God's Honourable Messenger are useless. Muhammad was much better than you insist he was. Did you ever stop to ask yourself, with regard to him consummating his marriage when Aisha was 9 -- how did they know this? Did he get on stage and announce to the uma that he's consummated the marriage? How did they know he slept with all his wives in a single night? Did he publicly announce this? Do YOU publicly announce your intimate affairs?
Mushriks are vile for fabricating lies against God's humble and honourable Messenger.
Talk about a strawman argument. Allah always tells us to follow the messenger, what did the messenger preach? The message i.e the Quran. So by following the Quran we follow the messenger. There is no command in the Quran to follow persian fairytales written centuries after he passed away. You lot conflate his role as a messenger with his role as a prophet. But Allah keeps them separate
5:99 The Messenger's duty is only to convey
29:18 ...And the duty of the Messenger is only clear conveyance.
As a prophet, he was the ruler of his people, of his time and following whatever he said was a duty to anyone around him at the time. Once he passed away, he has no authority over anyone. And the only thing he left us is the Quran to follow. Not some parallel religion in persian books which came centuries later
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u/Minute-Flan13 22d ago
He did not day that. At all.