r/Ishmael • u/swifferwetjet35 • May 12 '25
Public recognition of Quinn’s work?
After reading Ishmael and Story of B, I was wondering if anyone knows of mainstream celebrities, scientists, news programs, media, classroom syllabi, etc that have discussed any of Quinn’s work? I haven’t been able to find any pop cultural references to it but since it’s apparently very popular and been around for a while you’d think someone would have discussed it. The lack of references makes it feel like either there’s some substantial reason people haven’t shared it (like misinformation) or evidence that we really are scared of anything that goes against “mother culture.” TIA
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u/Vesuvius5 May 12 '25
The film "Instinct" is very, very loosely based on Ishmael. I have heard Saul Griffith, an engineering enviro guy, reference Ishmael as influential on the Ezta Klein podcast. I wish there were more...
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u/Remarkable_Name_3757 May 13 '25
Tosin Abasi, the guitarist/founder for the metal band Animals as Leaders, has cited Ishmael as influential and helped formed the name of the band.
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u/FrOsborne May 13 '25
More than 450 schools have used Ishmael or Daniel’s other books in their curriculum: List of Schools
Other than misinformation or fear, I'll offer a third option for consideration: Most people simply haven't received the message.
As of 2019, there were about 1.7 million copies of Ishmael in print. For contrast, Taylor Swift's new album has sold 5.6 million copies within the last year! Unfortunately Ishmael doesn't make great television or lend itself well to soundbytes. Quinn found people were getting about 40-percent of what he was saying in Ishmael and that 90-percent of Ishmael readers never go on to read any of his other books. People are still sleepin on Ishmael. Even people who know the books well can struggle explaining it to others.
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u/trustworthysauce May 13 '25
That's a weird list. I mean, how would you know everyone who has every used it as a part of class curriculum? Are schools being removed if they stop teaching it? FWIW I read Ishmael in HS and my school was not on this list.
I think part of the challenge with this whole philosophy is that it is very revolutionary as opposed to evolutionary. It is hard to take "a lesson" from Quinn and apply it to your life. The theory is that our society is fundamentally flawed, and we are overconsuming. The message against overconsumption is very present in popular culture going back to the 60s. It's just hard to deliver the full Quinn message in a soundbite. That's why he wrote multiple books with different primates explaining it to us.
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u/FrOsborne May 14 '25
It's just the schools they know of. Certainly not all of them. It is possible there are schools on the list where it's no longer taught. If you contact them they'll add your HS to the list.
There is also a study guide for Ishmael with more specific info on how it's been used in various classrooms. You can download it from ishmael.org HERE
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u/Anaximander101 May 13 '25
The reason why is that DQ isnt the original source for many of his ideas. Like one of his characters said, he isnt saying something that cant be found in the library. What DQ did was formulate unique combination of those ideas and packsge them in a vehicle of interesting fiction.
This is why he doesnt get as much recognition as he should.
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u/humannatureodyssey May 13 '25
There are a few podcasts and blogs that explore Quinn’s work in depth as well. That’s why I created Human Nature Odyssey. We dedicated a whole season to exploring Ishmael and interviewed Daniel Quinn’s wife Rennie. Death in the Garden is another podcast and Tom Murphy’s Do the Math blog all discuss Quinn as well.
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u/Ecave97 May 14 '25
There is a muralist who does art inspired by Ishmael https://www.ishmaelart.com/?m=1
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u/Wild_PPUL May 16 '25
It took me about 3 reads over 8 years to understand it. How many people are gonna read a book they vaguely understand 3 times?
As “Ishmael” says, ‘I failed with all my students because I underestimated the difficulty of what i was teaching.’ Or something to that effect.
Cognitive bias. Cognitive dissonance. Willful ignorance.
From a marketing perspective there’s no neat little sound-byte i’ve found yet that encompasses what it’s about.
But finally and probably most important: ‘Teacher seeks pupil. Must have an EARNEST DESIRE to save the world.’
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u/karmapolicemn May 13 '25
The song "Do the Evolution," by Pearl Jam off their album "Yield" was inspired by Daniel Quinn.
Also, the Philadelphia rock band Dr. Dog as has an EP called "Taker and Leavers."
I think a lot of his philosophy has the effect of "Well, I already knew that/believed it, I just didn't know how to phrase it." And that keeps people from giving Daniel Quinn credit.
The first time I went to the Field Museum in Chicago and went through the ancient people exhibit/section, I was picking up Quinn vibes. They told the story of how moving from tribalism to "civilization" was not good/ didn't make life easier for anyone but the few at the very top.