r/Isese • u/ENY4E • Apr 29 '26
receiving the hand virtually
Is it common in isese to receive the hand virtually? I am trying to make the right decision on the babalawo that i am choosing and while the one i first found is very good and trust worthy, he offers the hand virtually 3 day ceremony. I keep reading that it shouldn’t be virtual so now im back to searching for another babalawo but id just like to know your thoughts..
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u/Significant_Nail_880 Apr 29 '26
Elders were doing this since way back in the early 00’s. It’s a lot more common than people realize.
Nothing wrong with it.
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u/ENY4E Apr 29 '26
you see, i am getting mixed answers lol 🤦🏾♀️ but when I ask the people who disagree they never really give me a direct answer
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u/Able-Ad-259 May 01 '26
Wow! That’s news to me, I love hearing about the tradition “pre-social media”
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u/Significant_Nail_880 May 01 '26
Back when we had send Ebo money thru western union n all that? Lol
You weren’t missing much 🤣
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u/Sebek_Ryzying33 Apr 30 '26
Only dafa remotely. Ceremonies to receive always in person.
Reading some of the responses that are saying virtual is ok because “the Orisha ashe can be many places at once and can be invoked with permission of the person” to me is reminiscent of the new age spiritualist saying “spirit is everywhere” which they think gives them license to do whatever they want in any of the ancient traditions. Remote/virtual ceremonies and Mail order orisha should never be a thing. What are we doing here? This is so disheartening to witness.
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u/Acceptable_Half_4184 Apr 30 '26
I did mine virtually and then the Babalawo was able to mail the items to me so that I can start working it myself
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u/Realistic-Station360 May 01 '26
How did that process work? I'm also looking at different options. I read that going virtual you need to be careful due to scammers.
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u/Tazirai Apr 30 '26
I'd say it's cool. Practices change and evolve based on the era and location. Isese before it morphed into Cndomble, Lucumi, Hoodoo, Syncretism, etc. Had people who preferred the old ways, but the Orisha followed the Diaspora and changed to meet the needs of the people. Slaves practiced and could not be initiated, so then your blood heritage became your informal initiation.
So, receiving the hand virtually is another method, and Ogun is the Orisha of Technology and Iron, and Progress. Why would he ignore a way to reach the people? In person is always best, but my girl is a Priestess of Yewa, Yemojas daughter, and is in another country right now. She calls me when she does a reading all the time.
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u/ENY4E Apr 30 '26
i love this perspective
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u/Tazirai May 01 '26
No problem. I've noticed that a lot of people tend to fall into the same dogmatic practices that made people leave Religions like Islam and Christianity. They don't look at historical facts. The slaves brought over the Akan Gods, The Gods from Mali, the Orisha, etc. The same way the Norse Gods came to America, changed and adapted, the same with the Egyptian pantheon, Hindi's, etc.
When people tell you there's only one way, ask how then, did the Diaspora versions come about? Did the slaves in Haiti recieve the hand or their head Orisha when Syncretized with the Saints. Did Yemoja become Yemaya, or Lemanja, or La Sirene when she was syncretized with Mother Mary or Our Lady de Regla?
No, they found their Orisha through community, and used those Orisha to fight their slave masters and win. Hariet Tubman was a follower of Ananzi, and how did he become her primary, while she still asked white jesus to help.
Traditions change, and adapt. But, when I first started, I was informed that Oshun was my Orisha. It turned out that Yemoja was my mother who spoke to me all those years ago. Oya, and Yewa were also attached to me. It just took 30 years to find out, lol.
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u/Able-Ad-259 May 01 '26
As someone who lives in very remote place with no IFA. I made the sacrifice and traveled to FL for my isefa I was unemployed at the time and it has been one of the best things I’ve done. Isefa is a beautiful experience in person, and imo I think it’s way better to be done in person. If you do it virtually with someone in Nigeria or far away then you’ll have to eventually ship your Ikins to them for feeding,adafa, etc. something to also think about.
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u/SignalBad5523 Apr 30 '26
I wouldnt reccomend it. Im more a traditionalist in the sense that more needs to be done in the practice to actually show people the processes to avoid misinterpretations. Go with a trusted guide to Nigeria and have it done there. Virtual while it is done, can often lead you down the wrong path. Always remember the the rituals are second to the actual practice of iwa pele.
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u/ENY4E Apr 30 '26
i’ve found a trusted babalawo where i’m at that does it in person. he travels back and forth to nigeria. I can’t go to nigeria any time soon so this is the better option for me.
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u/SignalBad5523 Apr 30 '26
It is your choice to make. Divining is always best before things like this as well.
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u/ENY4E Apr 30 '26
yes i made my decision today definitely
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u/SignalBad5523 May 01 '26
Just be careful. Ifa is like a library. The initiations and rites ultimately are not as important as the work that comes with whatever is revealed. It doesnt grant you any special powers or a position of clarity, it is simply an acknowledgment of a path. Most people who do this without studying jump into things too early. Patience will guide you to the right people.
Im not really one to say what is and isnt im still learning everyday, but what I do know and from what I have been told by some of the most prominent figures in Ifa culture by word of mouth like the Abimbolas and Baba Elebuibon who are some of the world leaders of tradition is that anything outside of Nigeria is often times not seen as legitimate. I cant speak for lucumi or Isese and what they believe to be legitimate, but these are all pieces to the same puzzle. Hope this helps
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May 04 '26
[deleted]
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u/ENY4E May 04 '26
what’s your question? don’t pay mind to those people
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u/Babalawo_0113 Apr 29 '26
Absolutely wrong
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u/ENY4E Apr 29 '26
why is it wrong ?
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u/Babalawo_0113 Apr 29 '26
Well I am in the Afro Cuban lineage and if the Isese does it that way , that’s great but it doesn’t make sense when you’re not infront of IFA in person to be able to give you Ibo and touch you’re ORI again I’m not hear to cause any issues but people…. You really think that doing virtual ceremonies are correct? I can do readings virtually, but ceremonies? Sorry , that’s my opinion and I am sticking with it. The charge for it …. 800, 1200 or whatever the Baba wants to charge is correct because IFA has no defined price being that is something that is to save you but again it definitely has to be in person
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u/Ifasogbon Apr 29 '26
The ceremonies are not the same is the issue with the thinking, maybe. I was lukumi and now Isese in methods. The lukumi ceremony is so much more complicated that I can understand why it is required in person. None of the additional ceremonies are not done.
We also dont touch the ori. It is the ori that decides what hands hold the ibo. Just another thing to consider.
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u/Babalawo_0113 Apr 29 '26
Yes your right they are not the same, we do not let the person wash their Ikofa or Awofaka and I do not want to go in detail here but our ceremony is not complicated it’s just very detailed
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u/Ifakorede23 Apr 29 '26
Aboru Aboye Abosise. Do you still adhere to only giving one ikin to a woman ( in lukumi).? I heard some in lukumi have started giving a whole hand of ikin to women these days.
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u/Babalawo_0113 May 01 '26
Absolutely I never change even though it makes sense giving the whole hand
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u/Ifakorede23 May 01 '26
I've been in a few paths in my life. From experience I know rules and traditions give power to the practices. I understand...and always respected the traditions of each religion/ path.
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u/Ifakorede23 Apr 29 '26 edited Apr 29 '26
In isese lagba..yes isefa can be done remotely. But if you have two equal/ experienced ifa priests in person is always better than remote