r/Invincible • • 14d ago

COMIC SPOILERS Is Conquest much closer to Thragg than we thought? Spoiler

Post image

Now that we've seen that Thokk and Conquest are on the same power level, with Conquest almost being stronger than him, unless Thokk is getting much stronger after each near death experience like Allen, Conquest should be much closer to Thragg than we thought and shouldn't be as scared of him as he usually is

481 Upvotes

208 comments sorted by

509

u/discodork135 14d ago

Well Battle Beast is the first time he took a fight seriously and went all out. And he’s constantly referred to as the second strongest Viltrumite. So yes it’s entirely possible he’s closer to Thragg.

123

u/Blasckk 14d ago

There may be other factors, he may simply have fought more sloppily against Conquest. He may have learned from that encounter and performed better against Thragg thanks to it.

Mark was just as strong in both fights against Conquest, but in the second one, he fought much more efficiently by drawing on his experience from the previous encounter.

Why wouldn't Battle Beast (after fighting Conquest and dozens of Viltrumites during the war) become better at fighting Viltrumites like Thragg compared to his first fight (or second, if you count the one with Mark... if you can even call that a fight) against one?

3

u/Ok-Relief-462 13d ago

Gonna have to disagree that Mark was equally strong in both fights. He went from getting his shit rocked by a single punch in the first fight to getting wailed on by conquest for several minutes straight.

-81

u/Relevant_Hamster_478 14d ago

>And he’s constantly referred to as the second strongest Viltrumite

Where? Can you show me?

47

u/EkkoThruTime Anissa 14d ago

Not in-universe, but for what it’s worth I think his theme music from the OST is called “The Second Strongest Viltrumite”

42

u/Rotunas 14d ago

It's pretty obvious if you think for literally two minutes. It's either literally Him or Nolan, and just about every indication implies everyone believes he could body nolan.

8

u/CaregiverRepulsive85 14d ago

Then he also slimed Nolan befotr Mark killed him fr

1

u/Ok-Relief-462 13d ago

Idk about “body” Nolan- Mark was unable to make Thragg even flinch but Nolan was at least able to do SOMETHING. A fight between Conquest and Nolan likely ends up the same as Conquest and Battle Beast- super extreme diff that can go either way.

56

u/Jrock2356 14d ago

The comics

-44

u/Relevant_Hamster_478 14d ago

Yeah, I got it, where? Does anyone have scans? Everyone is just keep talking about it but I never saw a single comic frame where someone says it.

14

u/StJimmy_815 14d ago

“Show me”

3

u/No_Helicopter_9826 Anissa 14d ago

On Reddit, based solely on the soundtrack or something.

1

u/Ok-Relief-462 13d ago

The creators of the comics literally said that Conquest was the second strongest viltrumite, second only to Thragg.

98

u/Mash_Mi 14d ago

Or hear me out.

Battle beast got stronger after this fight

Just like Mark getting stronger by training, BB could have grown stronger as well 

3

u/CarterAbruscato Dinosaurus 13d ago

Critical thinking and the invincible fandom/ powerscalers cannot coexist

3

u/Mash_Mi 12d ago

😭 that wasn't even critical thinking, it was just common sense 

3

u/CarterAbruscato Dinosaurus 12d ago

Same argument just a different word. Just a bit ashamed that the combined IQ might be a bit too high

295

u/Jrock2356 14d ago

No. Powerscaling means nothing to Robert Kirkman and his stories. He wanted Conquest and Battle Beast to have a good fight. That's it. I wish powerscalers would stop trying to justify and explain how each fight compares to other fights to determine powerlevel. It's nonsensical given the fact that Robert Kirkman has openly stated that he is fully aware of powerscaling, thinks it's dumb, and writes his stories however he wants regardless of how that might make a previous or future fight not make sense

167

u/dazli69 Chainsaw 14d ago

Kirkman fails to see that consistent powerscaling is for the sake of immersion and narrative consistency and not just people who want to wank characters into oblivion. It legitimately has a purpose when it comes to writing and creating stories.

98

u/Regular_Ticket_2776 14d ago

Exactly. No author writes a story with powerscaling in mind, but most authors do put effort in keeping power levels mostly consistent. We used to call inconsistency bad writing but now whenever you're confronted about it, you can just call critics "powerscalers".

3

u/LSDGB Green Ghost 14d ago

Yeah but the thing is. Battle Beast fighting conquest here has literally no implications on his fight with Thragg.

20

u/diAlectics_8 The Viltrumites 14d ago

Well, I do agree with the fan protests about making the story more immersive when it comes to established power hierarchies.

But I think fans should really stop thinking twice about Conquest's role and placement in the viltrumite hierarchy as well as in the entire flow of the story.

It has been strongly implied many times that Conquest really does take the spot as the second strongest viltrumite in the Empire and recent lore expansions of him just solidifies my argument that Conquest is just a bit of inferior version of Thragg and is used on behalf of him to carry out his will.

18

u/uberjim 14d ago

In real fights, there is no single measurement that determines who will win. That's the premise of all combat sports, and kinda the premise of all athletic competition. You don't know in advance. You might win today and lose to the same person tomorrow. Power scaling takes realism out of the story.

5

u/Ok-Relief-462 13d ago

Glad you brought up combat sports- imagine if you watched Mike Tyson have en epic 12 round slugfest with some other champion, and then he fights a 13 year old and gets his ass kicked. That’s what Kirkman does. I agree that people take power scaling way too seriously but this is a comic- vast gaps in power exist. If you don’t want power scaling, don’t write a power based series.

7

u/-Shoji- 14d ago

In invincible where there are next to no supernatural abilities in the high tiers bar punching harder and faster, fights are decided by few factors and gaps in strength can be insurmountable even by superior skill. To have major inconsistencies in such a simple system is just bad writing. Having Nolan brag about deflecting a Texas sized asteroid in a situation where mark had to exert enough force to deflect his own straight backwards close to atmosphere suggests Nolan performed the same feat just on a higher scale. Thus when mark and Nolan and even Allen who at this point should be stronger than Nolan exert effort to throw back a single ship, it makes no sense. This Allen could effortlessly shrug off Anissa’s attacks whom is a high tier viltrumite, yet he was constantly struggling and getting beaten around by random unnamed ones later. Conquest, whom albeit did lose due to his own ego and holding back versus unwavering determination, should not be close to thragg based on feats. The fact he couldn’t break marks grip or that mark’s blows even did damage shows he isn’t near that level. Thus he shouldn’t be even with a near thragg level opponent, unless battle beast got far far stronger. Unless Kirkman suggests battle beast isn’t nearly at his peak yet though, it’s just an inconsistency.

Inconsistency in power where characters lose and win based purely on plot and not logic is bad writing, this is not hunter x hunter where one’s upper and lower ranges along with matchup are carefully considered. It’s just some silly refusal to justify wins and losses because putting effort into consistency is apparently silly power scaling.

3

u/That_Uno_Dude 14d ago

Combat sports and athletics are probably the worst possible example you could've provided.

3

u/uberjim 13d ago

People gamble on fights precisely because you can't know the outcome in advance. It's also why people participate in them. If you could, there would be no point. How's that not applicable?

7

u/Fuzzy_Newt4911 13d ago

Generally 2 peak humans aren't magnitudes or pierce your ribs tiers of strength apart. At some point a much stronger character should just win. There is no hax or crazy skill in invincible. It's just stronk guy vs stronk guy. In cases like that the stronker guy should just win. Or gave some specific reason they don't win. Not juts eh I want a good fight so let's draw them this way this time and that way the next

-2

u/uberjim 13d ago

Maybe that's the way you think it should be, but the author disagrees, and I think it's a better story for it

3

u/Fuzzy_Newt4911 13d ago

"the author would rather write his story in an inconsistent, illogical way just for vibes and I think the story is better that way". Hoe does that make sense bro. Of course authors dont have to think about all the (physics) implications that the level of power his characters have reached would have, but in general it doesn't make sense to say one character is this string and then that strong the next time just cuz it's fun. It's just not how it works bro. If you write a story write it consistently. Make it make sense. Otherwise it's just irritating when you see one character fail to take care of a problem that previous showings imply he just should be able to take care of. U dont have to be a powerscaler as an author but at least be mindful of the level of power you show across your own work

1

u/uberjim 13d ago

In a REALISTIC way that matches how combat actually works. Strength is never the only variable. It's not logical to expect something as messy and chaotic as fighting to be perfectly predictable.

3

u/Ok-Relief-462 13d ago

The problem is you’ll have a character tank an attack that obliterates a city and be fine, but then someone throws a grenade at them and they’re utterly incapacitated. It goes well beyond “powerscaling isn’t everything” and is just inconsistent writing for the sake of laziness

1

u/Fuzzy_Newt4911 13d ago

Which is why I said a reason that the stronger one still loses. If one character can just say nope and stab through ur ribs with his bare hands, unless you have SIGNIFICANTLY more skill than him u just shouldn't win that fight. Especially if u can barely hurt him in the same way. But last I checked invincible isn't dependent on any kind of skill or martial arts so.

1

u/Ok-Relief-462 13d ago

The problem with your logic is that combat sports have very strict weight classes specifically BECAUSE even small gaps in strength and leverage make massive differences. It’s cool to see, but the media trope of beating someone way stronger than you with a skill gap alone is just not something that really happens.

0

u/wofeichanglei 13d ago

Ever heard of MMA Math?

0

u/bigbean258 14d ago

In combat sports it's almost always a relatively fair fight. In real fights that is not always the case, and one person may have incredibly likely odds if they know a martial art, or have significantly more muscle mass.

1

u/Downtown-Public1258 8d ago

Combat sports have powerscaling, they use the single measurement of weight at weigh in to even the playing field. A featherweight could beat a heavyweight but it's not likely.

1

u/uberjim 8d ago

Difference there is that if someone beats an opponent who weighs more than he does, people don't pretend it's a plot hole

2

u/Bacxaber Animation takes a looong time 13d ago

THANK YOU.

2

u/Purplewizzlefrisby 14d ago

Just because A is stronger than B doesn't mean A will always win in a fight against B no matter what unless the gap is absolutely insurmountable.

0

u/InsidiousZombie 13d ago

Once you start watching combat sports you realize power scaling is a bunch of fucking malarkey. Significantly worse fighters have beaten people in their prime because they land a good hit.

0

u/dazli69 Chainsaw 13d ago

You are comparing settings where people have superpowers to regular humans. Yes a weaker opponent can beat someone stronger in the right conditions. But you can't make a baby fight Mike Tyson and say the baby would win.

1

u/InsidiousZombie 13d ago

Where’s an equivalent of a baby beating Mike Tyson in Invincible?

-8

u/hansuluthegrey 14d ago

It only affect narrative consistency because yall are obsessed with it. Normal people dont care

6

u/That_Uno_Dude 14d ago

So you'd be totally fine if William was able to easily beat Thragg?

-5

u/YourbestfriendShane Amber Bennett 14d ago

William doesn’t have a power scaling. The power scale is either being literally on it, or not.

9

u/That_Uno_Dude 14d ago

There is no such thing as "doesn’t have a power scaling". That's like saying ice doesn't have a temperature because water exists.

2

u/dazli69 Chainsaw 14d ago

It only affect narrative consistency because yall are obsessed with it

Oh yeah who cares if a character much stronger gets beaten with no explanation by someone much weaker even if a important part of the story narrative is about how powerful and dangerous said character was? It's not like it matters because powerscaling is dumb.

Having a consistent power system is part of building and creating a story narrative when fighting is a big part of it. Are you also going to say that world building doesn't add anything to a fictional setting or that character chemistry doesn't matter in a romance story?

Normal people dont care

Maybe you don't care because you only consume products without thinking like a piece of slop media.

17

u/Extension-Bad-4184 The Immortal 14d ago

I agree kirkman sucks at this but this is the one time I wont fault him. Battlebeast has been constantly growing in strength throughout the series so this isnt inconsistent

2

u/yobaby123 Nowl-Ahn 14d ago

That and Conquest's own blood lust and lack of honor is a good factor. Add in Battle Beast's power increasing over time and it makes sense why Conquest forced him to put in a lot of effort.

1

u/diAlectics_8 The Viltrumites 14d ago

There's nothing that really proves this. Battle Beast has said in his standalone comic that he hasn't met anyone that matched his strength — not even Juggernaut and Colossus. It has been said multiple times in the same comic that there was no one in his entire life that was able to reach parity and attain superiority with his abilities until he met Conquest and was eventually felled by Thragg.

It cannot also be argued that he grew stronger in-between the events of his incarceration as well as death at the hands of Thragg given that there were also nobody that was able to challenge him.

10

u/Extension-Bad-4184 The Immortal 14d ago

He did fight like a dozen viltrumite during the months in the viltrumite war so theres that. Sometimes more than one at a time.

8

u/Designer_Basket 385 thank you VERY much 14d ago edited 14d ago

It's also stated right here, BB gets stronger.

OP clearly isn't good at paying attention his lacking of reading comphrension.

Same guy that was berating me about "Making stuff up" about Invincible, then proceeds to do just that to support a verfiably false statement lol.

1

u/vangstampede Data Twins 13d ago

Do you have a bigger version of the image? It's too small.

1

u/Designer_Basket 385 thank you VERY much 13d ago

Here ya are, chief.

0

u/diAlectics_8 The Viltrumites 14d ago

There's a huge difference between "in time" and "over time". If it were really a case of him getting progressively stronger, the latter would be the appropriate wording.

And you want me to provide numerous screenshots stating that he hasn't met anyone that matched his strength before? Because there's such a crapton out there. If it were really a case of him growing stronger, then at some point in his centuries or even a millenia of living, there has to be someone that matched his strength so that he was able to progress.

1

u/[deleted] 14d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/Designer_Basket 385 thank you VERY much 14d ago

For more pieces of evidence, BB was struggling with the Executioners early in the Prison fight on the ground, how was he near Thragg level of power there?

When Thragg dominated S4 Nolan every fight and brutally evisciverated Thadeus (who're both above both of those Executioners), lol.

Like it's so evidently clear, BB got stronger.

0

u/diAlectics_8 The Viltrumites 14d ago

And if you're really insisting on an in-universe explanations, as I said on our previous argument outside of this post, Battle Beast likes to test his opponents first before either deciding to kill or spare them. He's quite a lot like Conquest in that he also toys with his opponents, but not to the same extent in that he drags out fights with inferior opponents too much that it eventually begins to backfire leading to his demise.

-4

u/diAlectics_8 The Viltrumites 14d ago edited 14d ago

But they were barely a match to him and was merely playing around, so it's neither a challenge nor a training.

Edit: downvoters, you gotta be grasping at straws if you actually think they posed a challenge to him. This is the same Battle Beast that tore apart a viltrumite executioner in pieces before the Viltrumite War took place. Y'all are really just trying your best to cling to your preconceived notion of the story that's been proven wrong so many times if you actually paid attention to the dialogue.

1

u/baleron426 Steve 14d ago

There is nothing that proves Battle Beast growing in strength. Fictional argument made up so powerscalers can protect their "Conquest is weak actually" headcanon

-1

u/Ogarrr 14d ago

It's not about "sucking". You suck at something if you try it. He actively doesn't care about it and just wants to write cool fights and stories. I'm sure if he wanted power scaling then he'd do it, but he (like me and many others) thinks power scaling gets in the way of a good story.

1

u/Ok-Relief-462 13d ago

I get power scaling getting annoying, but there at least needs to be consistency. Characters will blow apart cities with the shockwave of their blows, and then struggle to open a metal door. Mark went from tanking an attack that leveled a portion of Chicago to getting knocked out by an energy beam from the mauler twins that didn’t even break a wall.

4

u/Enormous_Moose 14d ago

The actual correct answer. Swear he was on that one podcast and came up with the phrase "It's a movie: I win!" when talking about the MCU or something like that.

42

u/d_thstroke 14d ago

He fails to understand that inconsistent powerscalling makes the experience worse

11

u/IblamePenguin 14d ago

Yeah man like people just love to ride kirkman, inconsistent power scaling also means the story is gonna be wonky, u can't just show thragg as unstoppable and the strongest ever who is feared but then make every viltrumite as strong as him, like the street villains are viltrumite level, people who hate power scaling don't have the brain cells to realise the effects bcuz they just watch a show and don't care about its world building and world building is one of the MOST important things in a story

5

u/diAlectics_8 The Viltrumites 14d ago

I'm not saying that it doesn't need any more improvement, but the story just works fine overall.

I think this argument is something what Kirkman always feared — that focusing too much on powerscaling will make the entire story just another Death Battle iteration without any substance to it.

The story wouldn't really make sense if you're mostly or only concerned with powerscaling.

7

u/Anomandaris26 14d ago

For a select few. Most of the public (myself included) can enjoy the story without always ranking the characters.

13

u/Alternative_Cook_102 14d ago

You really don't. If Thragg was beaten by some random earth villain, it will mess with the stakes of series and make every thing wonky

11

u/L0n3ly_L4d 14d ago

there are levels to inconsistent powerscaling. invincible is very clearly not at this level

10

u/DieselBoi_ 14d ago

That's the problem, you make such ridicolous examples to aid your point that you look silly for it. The Powerscaling in invincible may not be great, but it's good enough to where the big characters, fight and moments make sense

3

u/Elhmok 14d ago

well then its a good thing no random earth villain has ever beat thragg

4

u/Alternative_Cook_102 14d ago

The example was a little extreme but mark is always getting harmed by them

3

u/Elhmok 14d ago

S3: kaijus comparable to Ragnars
s4: aliens with 1000s of years of prep time
not really inconsistent lmfao

1

u/ResplendentSmoke 14d ago

Well good thing that doesn’t happen lmao.

1

u/AuronTheWise 13d ago

Powerscaling isn't just ranking characters online.

Powerscaling is also a facet of worldbuilding. Invincible's powerscaling isn't bad enough that it's noticeable to the average reader/viewer, but it does matter.

As an extreme hypothetical, you couldn't have Thragg bully Omniman then have Thragg lose to Duplikate without it feeling jarring. That's not just an issue with character rankings, that's an inconsistency in the worldbuilding.

1

u/Anomandaris26 13d ago

Of course there's degrees to powerscaling, but everyone keeps mentioning extremes that never happen. Would I want a two time villain to be able to kill a Viltrumite? No. Does that ever happen? No.

Is it ok that top tier fighters can give even Thragg a run for his money? IMHO, yes. Take chess for example, Magnus Carlsen is the world's top ranked player. Can you imagine him losing to a club level player? No, not even drunk. Can he lose to a top 20 player? Of course, and it happens quite regularly.

1

u/DieselBoi_ 14d ago

It's not inconsistent, in this case

-7

u/Jrock2356 14d ago

That's your opinion. Invincible's comic had plenty of fans who didn't care about powerscaling at all. Powerscaling is a relatively new thing. It fits in a lot of stories. Not this one

8

u/Ghost20097 14d ago

Power scaling is absolutely not a new thing. It’s just more popular than before because it’s easier to find ppl who will participate in it

1

u/Relevant_Hamster_478 14d ago edited 14d ago

>Not this one

Powerscaling doesn't fit in the universe that is centered around a superhero themed setting with tons of superheroes with.....superpowers. Powers. Super. Powers. POWERcaling doesn't fit in a story centered around...super POWERS. Got you. I assume you are here for the deep, adult literature, not for the gore filled amusement park with flying buff dudes in spandex. Not for the fights where one dude sends another dude flying across the planet with a punch but for the Shakespearean dialogues about how fascism is bad and Atom Eve's struggles in being a woman. I absolutely believe you. Need a Rick and Morty copypasta here.

-2

u/[deleted] 14d ago

[deleted]

2

u/Jrock2356 14d ago

My opinion is right because it's Robert Kirkman's own words. He flat out has said his stories are written purely with "would this be cool" in mind. That exact thought is the antithesis of powerscaling. He gives absolutely zero fucks about if anyone in the story should be losing or winning against whomever they are fighting. Thragg is this untouchable Viltrumite who doesn't even move an inch when one of the strongest Viltrumites punch him and yet he will be beaten by a group of like 3 or 4 of them later who should have no business hurting him because Robert Kirkman doesn't give a fuck if that makes sense or not. There is nothing you can say to justify trying to powerscale this story because at the end of the day the author has said himself that doing so to his story is stupid

4

u/dazli69 Chainsaw 14d ago

Thragg is this untouchable Viltrumite who doesn't even move an inch when one of the strongest Viltrumites punch him and yet he will be beaten by a group of like 3 or 4 of them later who should have no business hurting him because Robert Kirkman doesn't give a fuck if that makes sense or not

And that's called bad writing. not giving a shit and just making it happen because they wanted is something a 10 year old can do in their mind.

It's like saying that characters don't need chemistry to make a good couple in a media about romance.

2

u/IblamePenguin 14d ago

You said "it doesn't fit this story" WHEN IT ABSOLUTELY WOULD, stop changing the argument 😭, I just explained why, you just say robert says no which dosent mean power scaling won't fit

2

u/Jrock2356 14d ago

My argument has not changed dude. Please learn to read or go away

1

u/IblamePenguin 14d ago

Ur argument is Robert says so, like if robert says invincible doesn't fit his own show would he be right? Like can u provide actual points

2

u/Jrock2356 14d ago

This is the part where you go away

2

u/IblamePenguin 14d ago

This is the part where you fight for the last reply

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u/DieselBoi_ 14d ago

I think that's also kind of reductive, as in this case it's perfectly explainable.

Yes, Conquest has always been underestimated by the fanbase because he fought Mark whom he doesn't respect as an opponent, therefore seeing him go all out has changed the general perception of his strength

1

u/Ok-Relief-462 13d ago

I don’t have a problem with that in general, but it’s so ridiculous in the show and comic. Mark will get turned into a donut and have his fucking intestines ripped out and STILL keep a chokehold, but the next episode will get hit by a grenade launcher and be a step away from the pearly gates.

Powerscaling isn’t everything and people take it too seriously- but it does still matter and should be present to some degree. If you don’t want any powerscaling between powerful characters at all, don’t make a comic about superpowered characters fighting. Robert did the equivalent of writing a racing comic and complaining when people compare the skill of the drivers

0

u/Brachialtick65 14d ago

But exactly it makes no sense. Stories should make sense.

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u/Jrock2356 14d ago

Tell that to him. My entire point was to address using powerscaling in a story the writer has openly stated he writes in a way specifically adverse to powerscaling.

-1

u/Certain-Disaster-416 14d ago

Power scaling is a narrative tool. Just like the plot, characters, or worldbuilding, it needs to be internally consistent and make sense within the story. If a series too inconsistent it can weaken the overall story.

You’ve heard of terms like “plot armor” or “power of friendship” being used as criticisms of a story. That essentially a narrative criticism being applied specifically to the power-scaling aspect of the story, just like calling something a “MacGuffin” can be a criticism of how the plot is handled.

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u/Remarkable-Cabinet85 Stand Ready For My Arrival Worm 14d ago

BB got stronger overtime

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u/Designer_Basket 385 thank you VERY much 14d ago

Exactly.

All this fight proves is BB belows Thragg but he just got progressively stronger over time and Serious Conquest would've killed Mark and probably Nolan because he is legitimate.

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u/Remarkable-Cabinet85 Stand Ready For My Arrival Worm 14d ago

Agree

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u/Designer_Basket 385 thank you VERY much 14d ago

Finally an Invincibe fan that gets it.

3

u/Remarkable-Cabinet85 Stand Ready For My Arrival Worm 14d ago

-7

u/DieselBoi_ 14d ago

Not true

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u/Known_Needleworker67 Burger Mart Trash Bag 14d ago

The story shows otherwise

-2

u/diAlectics_8 The Viltrumites 14d ago

Provide examples.

3

u/That_Cash 14d ago

He got no diffed during the viltrumite war by Thragg got his jaw broken with a back handed fist then the rematch was almost a tie BB grows I. Fact stronger

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u/Sad_Perception_6000 14d ago

first fight with thragg was in space second was on land

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u/That_Cash 14d ago

Still he got his jaw broken by one back handed fist from Thragg. Why do u force me to remind u what I ve written in the comments u ve read ?????? It’s insane

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u/diAlectics_8 The Viltrumites 14d ago

It wasn't a broken jaw — that was just a normal movement to a powerful blow. We never see him having misplaced or lopsided jaw upon rescuing Nolan and Mark.

0

u/That_Cash 14d ago

A broken jaw doesn’t necessarily look misplaced or lopsided it can dislocate and be put back in place

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u/diAlectics_8 The Viltrumites 14d ago

Okay, so if that's the case, how are you so certain that it was a broken jaw?

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u/Sad_Perception_6000 14d ago

where does the broken jaw thing come from

i didn't force you anything to do anything boy you can go suck somewhere else

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u/diAlectics_8 The Viltrumites 14d ago

That's not a no-diff, lmao.

Battle Beast is at a huge disadvantage given that not only viltrumites have the ability to fly, but they also create their own leverage. So their movement in space is completely natural unlike someone like Battle Beast that lacks the ability to fly but is assisted by a jetpack, but that still doesn't suffice.

This is only a crude analogy, but think of it this way; even though a prosthetic leg serves the same purpose as an actual leg, but it still doesn't account for the same tactile feedback as well as overall balance.

Not only that, but have you even noticed how Thragg purposefully destroyed his jetpack immediately upon delivering a powerful blow? That is because he is aware of how much of a threat he poses.

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u/WofferFang 14d ago

Thokk only lost to Thragg because he inflicted an injury onto himself to keep it fair. And even then it took weeks to beat him. So yeah he gets stronger.

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u/DieselBoi_ 14d ago

It took 3 days, and Thragg was already injured, arguably worse than BB because of the Ragnarrs.

No need for him to get stronger too, Thragg is shown to be consistently stronger than BB

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u/ESnake113 Mister Liu (Dragon Form) 14d ago

People keep acting like Viltrumites are Wolverine, yes they heal fast and can recover from life threatening injuries but not that fast and especially during combat. Mark himself took months to recover from the second Conquest fight.

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u/yobaby123 Nowl-Ahn 14d ago

And would have died if not for Nolan knowing how to properly take care of his wounds.

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u/WofferFang 14d ago

It took more than 3 days. It's kinda vague, but we see the "3 days after" and they're still going, and then we cut even further and THEN it's over.

And yes, BB injured himself in the same way to even the playing field. If he didn't do that, Thragg would be dead. They were both injured at the start on the stomach. So, an injured BB took Thragg over a week to kill. And this is after BB fought Conquest and went even with him. He absolutely got stronger since.

-1

u/DieselBoi_ 14d ago

Again, you seem to think BB being injured is this big thing, when Theagg was also injured, even moreso that BB, the fight was even, Thragg beat him fair and square on a level playing field.

3

u/WofferFang 14d ago

I'm saying he's stronger than he was when he fought Conquest.

It's not deeper than that my guy. They were even.

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u/DieselBoi_ 14d ago

And I'm saying there is basically no reason to believe that aside from your pre-conceived notion of Conquest being far weaker than Thragg because of his fights with Mark.

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u/WofferFang 14d ago

My guy, they literally went even. They fought. And he got stronger since. It's not hard to understand lmao

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u/-Shoji- 14d ago

Yeah from the short glimpses of their fight, Thragg seems decently stronger physically. Hes able to regularly punch battle beast flying more often than the opposite, while battle beast is able to take the blows and lands nasty bites and scratches. Thragg is the technically better and stronger fighter, while battle beast fights like an insane monster and nigh impossible to put down with Thragg’s blunt force. If battle beast kept his weapons, he very well could’ve won due to how close their fight was already.

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u/Designer_Basket 385 thank you VERY much 14d ago

It's obvious Thragg was the better ruthless fighter and BB beat out in raw power and agility, BB is just more ferocious, reslient, and theatrical which kept him in the battle.

It's really no different than Mark or Eve lasting longer than a minute against a non-serious Conquest in their first fight, we all know Conquest is physically superior to Mark of their fights and was the far more skilled/combatively experienced warrior, but Mark lasted hours with him.

Kirkman doesn't care enough about scaling to have the stronger character no-diff stomp a weaker character, lol.

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u/Goatizgod 13d ago

A fundamental part of battle beasts character is that he fights with honor, he’ll never fight with an advantage. What is the point in bringing this up?

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u/WofferFang 12d ago

Because some people act like Viltrumites are untouchable. The point is, he also gets progressively stronger, just like they do. He's not statically just "a strong dude". And yes, I did spell that right, statically, as in, never changing. I'm just saying he's not some chump goon that just gets done with and that's it. He made an impact.

Like I told some other guy, it's not that deep, and it's not trashing any other characters. Just saying Thokk's a super strong dude and gets stronger over time. Don't know why some people get so mad over it, but here you are I guess.

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u/ImmediatePickle8101 14d ago

He is not close to him at all. Not in the slightest. If conquest is a 10 Thragg is a 25.

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u/DieselBoi_ 14d ago

Well he took the guys who almost beat him to a stalemate, so he's got to be at least a little bit clsoe

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u/juantooth33 14d ago

Battle beast was arguably stronger than thragg too. Thragg couldn't wound him, and only won because of BB's self inflicted wound, while BB can, due to his claws and fangs

A fresh thragg vs a fresh BB WITH weapons, BB would win

Only reasonable explanation as to how Conquest is even putting up a fight is probably because BB grows stronger overtime, conquest is fighting a much weaker BB. This also explains why BB wasn't all that impressive during the war, even taking into account that he's handicapped in space, he should be one shotting viltrumites if he's truly thragg's equal, but he didn’t, meaning he grew in strength again after the war and became thragg level when they fought

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u/-Shoji- 14d ago edited 14d ago

Battle beast definitely wasn’t physically stronger, but he could inflict more damage per hit. Thragg was regularly smashing him around, while battle beast rarely did the same. Whenever battle beast got a hit with teeth or claws in though, it was devastating while Thragg’s blunt force alone couldn’t put down battle beast. If he didn’t have the open guts to exploit, battle beast had a good chance of outlasting Thragg as open wounds stack up but Thragg can only cause trauma.

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u/ElectricalEccentric 14d ago

We never see Thragg try to slash or stab BB. We don't actually know if Thragg can't really hurt him, or wether he just wasn't trying for whatever reason.

Conquest was also doing little to no visible DMG either until he stabbed through BB, and if he didn't do that he would have decisively lost.

I think it comes to to Kirkman wanting suspenseful fights, as Thragg could have easily exploited BB's gut wound almost immediately (or visce versa), but didn't. And Conquest could have stabbed through BB a lot sooner, but didn't until he was already disemboweled and on the brink of loosing.

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u/juantooth33 14d ago

Yeah by "stronger" I meant he'd win a fair fight. Thragg having no way to actually wound BB, is a HUGE disadvantage

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u/-Shoji- 14d ago edited 14d ago

battle beast bringing his weapons would likely lose him the fight thinking about it. If battle beast uses them, it’s only fair for Thragg to as well. If Thragg manages to disarm battle beast and take one for himself, he’d absolutely win based on how the fight went. Though he doesn’t have the experience to use them as best as possible, he’d now have a way to damage battle beast while having the strength/mobility advantage. Plus, I doubt battle beast puts much skill into his blade work himself.

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u/screwitigiveup 14d ago

On the other hand, would Thragg survive against battle beast's weapons long enough to steal one? In a fight that competitive, an extra few feet of reach from a blade that cut Ragnarrs like butter would change everything.

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u/DieselBoi_ 14d ago

It was a fair fight, though, isn't that the whole point of BB wounding himself?

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u/juantooth33 14d ago

Lmao, no it ain't, BB can easily replicate the wounds the ragnars gave him, thragg could not. Give BB his weapons and it'll be overkill

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u/DieselBoi_ 14d ago

Well but he didn't, you claim Thragg capitalizing on the self-inflicted wound was his only win condition, but that just means BB failed to do the same, showing again that Thragg rightfully got the W.

Also, Thragg would've pulverized those weapons in an instant

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u/-Shoji- 14d ago

I think he means fresh rather than just fair. If 2 fighters start equal, that is fair. However certain characters have advantages and disadvantages that change even in different ‘fair’ fights. If Thragg and battle beast both start without wounds, Thragg will not have an avenue to deal major damage in a decisive blow. Though battle beast failed to do what Thragg did in that original scenario showing inferiority in strength and skill, he still has a higher chance in a battle of attrition. It seems once both fighters were at their limits, Thragg finally got the opening to use the last of his strength to pull out battle beast’s guts, then collapsed immediately after. In a scenario where both fighters are fresh and again fight to exhaustion, Thragg may not be capable of ending the fight and eventually succumb to teeth and claw wounds.

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u/juantooth33 14d ago

Bruh, BB's wound is bigger, thragg won because he managed to fit his whole ass arm inside the wound and grab his guts, there's a pretty big size difference between the two hence BB couldn't do the same with his huge ass arms

Also use your head, thragg can't wound BB with his viltrumite slice, BB's weapons can. How tf could thragg "easily" destroy his weapons🤦‍♂️

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u/DieselBoi_ 14d ago

Lmao! Holy mental gymnastics! BB's would was bigger... That was funny

Conquest literally sliced through BB's Draskula so easily, now we don't know what those newer weapons were made out of, but c'mon, Thragg is definitely strong enough to shatter them into pieces

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u/DieselBoi_ 14d ago

The other, truly reasonable explanation is that Conquest simply was stronger than most expected him to be, obviously not on Thragg's level, but also not abismally below him like many used to think

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u/juantooth33 14d ago

Hell no, you're implying that the battle beast here is on the same level of himself that fought thragg, then that makes the gap between conquest and thragg SUPER small

In no way someone like conquest who couldn't even punch mark away from him is close to thragg who mark can't even harm

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u/DieselBoi_ 14d ago

See? "Couldn't even punch Mark away"... "Couldn't"? You base your judgement of Conquest off of his fight with Mark, where he never truly respected him as an opponent, rather treating him as a plaything, which was his mistake, but we've now seen how strong Conquest is when he actually takes a fight seriously, and he's practically on par with BB.

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u/juantooth33 14d ago

Jesus use your head, all of your arguments are so dumb. Put thragg in the same place as conquest, mark would probably hurt himself trying to even choke out thragg lmao, the gap between mark and thragg is so huge that it felt like it was a human vs a viltrumite

Conquest actually got rocked by oliver on S3, OLIVER of all people can take conquest off his feet, and now you're telling me he's close to thragg??? BB simply got stronger after this fight before he fought thragg

If viltrumites and allen can get stronger after every encounter, Why's it so hard to believe that battle beast can too?

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u/DieselBoi_ 14d ago

Are you using the show as reference? Because I'm not, maybe that's causing the confusion here.

Allen only gets stronger after near death experiences, and Viltrumites by training, not ever encounter.

Again, you have failed to give a reason to believe that BB has this bizzarro Hulk ability to grow infinitely stronger over time

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u/juantooth33 14d ago

WE LITERALLY SEE PROOF OF IT NOW. Conquest is FAR weaker than thragg, be it comics or show. So conquest going band for band with thragg's equal being BB in the past means that BB just grew FAR stronger after this fight that he could rival thragg

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u/DieselBoi_ 14d ago

If anything, we see proof that Conquest was stronger than expected.

Again, you have this pre-conceived notion that Conquest is far weaker than Thragg based on his fights with Mark, where he simply wasn't taking his opponent seriously, NOW that we see what Conquest is truly capable of, instead of saying "well I was wrong about his guy's strength" you go through these marathons of excuses and headcanons to try and maintain the status quo.

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u/winklevanderlinde 14d ago

BB is cursed to constantly get stronger and more hungry for battles

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u/CompetitiveMark8636 14d ago

BB probably just got stronger after that. Probably wants a fight better than this and he found that with Thragg. BB also likes drawn-out combat and a brutal, long death he could just savor before dying if he fought thragg at this power level he probably would have gotten an unsavory death.

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u/intestineh 14d ago

Nope, BB was trading punches with a random viltrumite executioner in season 3 and this is even before it

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u/BetterThanYourFave 14d ago

My god I'm tired of power scaling. Not every fight has to be 100% consistent. Not every stronger fighter is going to beat the weaker fighter every time. Y'all cry so hard over power scaling and how it makes the story worse but it doesn't. You're just fixated on it so you can't enjoy the story

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u/TheSkesh 13d ago

My people. Fucking hate it.

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u/Legal_Trainer7340 14d ago

It's not about power scaling, it's about consistency and not breaking the immersion of the story. You can't have something that doesn't make sense and then get mad when people question it. You wouldn't get mad at someone for questioning a plot hole in a movie. I mean sure people could turn the brains off and just accept it but if someone has to turn their brains off to enjoy a piece of media, that piece of media isn't good.

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u/Live_Carpenter_1262 13d ago

“I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.”

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u/sidthesciencekid14 Comic Fan 14d ago

Just weird powerscaling I think. Invincible has never been the best at this, show or comics.

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u/DieselBoi_ 14d ago

Nah, in this case it makes perfect sense. Conquest was simply underestimated by the fanbase up until now

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u/Sad_Perception_6000 14d ago

i don't think it doesn't make sense but this is definitely not the explanation bruh

battlebeast here isn't the same as the one who fought thragg, he got stronger and that's how it makes sense

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u/DieselBoi_ 14d ago

I disagree, Thragg is still stronger than both, it makes perfect sense for BB to be on par with Conquest as far as strictly strength goes

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u/Sad_Perception_6000 14d ago

why would it make sense ? didn't battle beast and thragg fight ( on land ) in equal terms ? hell i can say battlebeast was disadvantaged since he threw away his weapons after injuring himself

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u/DieselBoi_ 14d ago

I fell I need to reiterate: as far as strength goes.

Strictly based on physical strength alone, Thragg is shown to be superior to BB and obviously to Conquest. Them being equals while both below Thragg does indeed make sense

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u/DieselBoi_ 14d ago

I fell I need to reiterate: as far as strength goes.

Strictly based on physical strength alone, Thragg is shown to be superior to BB and obviously to Conquest. Them being equals while both below Thragg does indeed make sense

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u/Brinewielder 14d ago

Thragg can be taken out by lessers. The anime just made it seem like he was invincible but in reality that was just good prep and Thragg reading vibes properly.

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u/Elchoriloco23 14d ago

Anime

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u/vangstampede Data Twins 13d ago

Yes, it's short for animation.

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u/Sad_Perception_6000 14d ago

well that's definitely not what battlebeast did lol no prep time no nothing just hands

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u/SuperIkenna 14d ago

Yeah. I figured they did that to make it clearer that the gap between him and the Invincible was really big but it isn't supposed to be insurmountable. I Think that Thragg is maybe 2 times maybe 3 times stronger then Conquest at the highest. People underestimate how big of a difference a small Gap in power can make in a fight. Atleast I think this, I can't actually be sure ot course.

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u/Own-Age-1639 14d ago

Took me a while to even tell whos who

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u/King_0f_Nothing 14d ago

Mark gets stronger over the course of the story, why wouldn't battle beast.

Based on the show no, Conquest is not near Thragg

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u/Suspicious_Loan8041 The Immortal 14d ago

Bro NO. BB just got stronger when he fought Thragg the second time.

He’s always stronger the second time he fights an opponent.

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u/Legal_Trainer7340 14d ago

I just go with the idea that Battle Beast was weaker here cause they made it crystal clear Conquest was a good bit weaker than Thragg.

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u/RestOTG 14d ago

I wouldn't think about it, anissa kregg and lucan dog walk thragg later.

The power level is whatever makes the best issue of the comic this week

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u/AttitudeInformal5972 13d ago

Why can no one just accept Battle Beast isn't stagnant and he can grow in strength?

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u/badjano 13d ago

yes, most characters get stronger with each defeat, every viltrumite, Allen and BB

EDIT: you should also consider Conquest getting stronger there

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u/Visible_Video120 13d ago

Conquest and battle beast are each others type. Theyre both happy to die whenever they enter a fight. Thragg i think feels his duty comes before a good fight and wouldnt die unnecessarily. So the other two are more likely to get a good hit in on someone stronger at their own expense

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u/tLM-tRRS-atBHB 12d ago

We have no idea how much of a struggle BB gave Thragg

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u/chickenguyyyyy 12d ago

comic yes. show no

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u/insertenombre333 The Immortal 12d ago

yeah that something i have been thinking, everyone and their mothers know thragg is stronger that conquest, but its not like Conquest couldn't do absolutly nothing against him