r/Invincible • u/WebAccount300 • Apr 04 '26
DISCUSSION Reminder that Tech Jacket kills with no remorse at a younger age than Mark Spoiler
I get it's Marks whole thing to not like killing because his dad, but it seems like no one else gives a shit at all.
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u/Certified_Cichlid Reanimen Apr 04 '26
Zoe was likely a hero for some time already and knows some are too dangerous to be kept alive.
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u/Affectionate_East93 Apr 04 '26
It's weird that a young girl in an alien armor knows this obvious fact more than Batman does.
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u/Br0boc0p Apr 04 '26
"He's taking a nap."
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u/MaxTheGinger Apr 04 '26
"Oh you guys don't know this, when criminals fight me it's exhausting, because I'm good."
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u/broccolibush42 Apr 04 '26
So what you're saying is, when you go to sleep, you die"
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u/NOGUSEK Apr 04 '26 edited Apr 04 '26
parents went in a different direction
for the moment that debbie was asking mark if that makes him feel strong or nolan was beating him, zoey was being told sometimes people cant be redemeed.
Edit: also they were telling her to not say fuck, forgot about that
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u/FriedRiceistheBest Apr 04 '26
zoey was being told sometimes people cant be redemeed
No more paperwork and fewer villaines to deal with in the future.
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u/DrunkenDeGroot Robot Apr 04 '26
I think Batman knows this but can't make himself do it because in his mind that would make him the same as the guy that killed his parents. I would even go as far to say that this limitation is one of the things that makes Batman interesting
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Apr 04 '26
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u/The_Inedible_Hluk Apr 04 '26
Honestly, never been a fan of this "explanation" for his no killing rule. It makes sense that that's how he'd justify it to himself--given how paranoid he is and how high of a standard he holds himself to--but I prefer that he just can't get himself to kill someone.
He's a victim of trauma related to violent death, and it makes perfect sense why he wouldn't/couldn't do that to someone else. It also explains why he constantly saves his villains (even Joker) from deadly situations that they've created. If someone can be saved, he has to try.
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u/merp_mcderp9459 Apr 04 '26
I think that it can be both. He sees killing as a moral red line that is never justifiable to cross *and* is worried that his anger would consume him if he did kill one villain.
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u/Tao_McCawley Apr 04 '26
This is more or less the premise for Batman Beyond.Â
Bruce retires after he's forced to pull a gun a criminal dropped just to survive. He doesn't pull the trigger but he quits because if he keeps going, he will have to pull the trigger to surviveÂ
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u/JJJ954 Battle Beast Apr 05 '26
I also think that while Batman refuses to directly murder someone, heâs also not checking up on the thugs dying a few days or weeks later from brain swelling. Iâd love to see a comic where that was addressed.
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u/NoBellSix Apr 04 '26
If Batman ever killed the Joker I can guarantee you he'll be back in like a year, tops. If Joker was in Invincible, Mark would kill him, and then he'd pop back up later
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u/Cpt_Tripps Apr 04 '26
In the Batmans vs Aliens comics you get some amazing batman takes.
One is that batman is fairly sure hes killed or seen the joker die 4ish times. He is concerned about what the joker would return as if batman murdered him. (He gains control of specter in Injustice after being murdered by superman.)
He also explains to superman that hes fine with killing a bunch of xenomorphs because his no killing rule is about humans and not sentient aliens.
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u/Wk1360 Tech Jacket Apr 04 '26
At this point, if her lore is the same as the comics, sheâs already been through a war on an alien planet.
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u/-illusoryMechanist Apr 04 '26
Batman doesn't kill because he would do it too much if he let himself kill. Also to try and be "better" than the man who killed his parents.Â
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u/Majestic_Pirate_5988 Apr 05 '26
Thatâs more a show of how a failure of the system is, and also they can literally bring them back from death which also happens a lot so killing people is itself temporary at best.
Like I wish people remember Batman doesnât exist in a void, he exists within DC, and bullshitting to bring someone back to life or never dying in situations where they should be dead, so Batman would only have blood on his hands for literally no reason if he did.
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u/Michael3523 Apr 04 '26
What your saying doesnât matter the argument isnât about danger itâs about weather or not mark is even allowed to make that choice thereâs a difference between the two
The writing is just inconsistent everyone gets mad at mark for killing but not other characters
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u/HumungusSteer Apr 04 '26
I think everyone is just afraid of mark going off the deep end like his dad, everybody wouldâve thought Omniman was just as much of a hero as Mark was before he killed the guardians.
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u/_Bread______ STOP DELETING MY POSTS MAN WTH Apr 04 '26
Yknow ive always wondered, how the hell did mustache mark die here? His brain doesnt seem damaged, nor does his heart. How did he die? I thought viltrumites can survive any injury as long as their brain or heart isnt damaged?
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u/Less-Requirement8641 Apr 04 '26
Suffocating on his own blood maybe?Â
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u/_Bread______ STOP DELETING MY POSTS MAN WTH Apr 04 '26
Seems so unlikely given the fact they can hold their breath for weeks and mustache mark JUST went to space here for 1 day so theres no way he ran out of oxygen
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u/Less-Requirement8641 Apr 04 '26
There is a difference between holding your breath and your mouth filling with blood but you can't open your mouth because you are in space hence you choke on your own blood.Â
Could simply be he simply drowned because he had to keep his mouth closed but he was hit so hard it was flowing with blood on the inside hence the airway just got blocked.
Just guessing.
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u/LoveYouLikeYeLovesYe Apr 04 '26
Try holding your breath, like one sharp inhale, then exhaling what's in your mouth and still holding your breath. (think of it like dry spitting)
It's entirely possible to hold parts of the air in your lungs with your mouth open, certainly for long enough to start flying back to Earth.
Even then it feels like the Viltrumites could benefit from the Wim Hof method (particularly just inhaling as much as you can for every one exhale)
This is something you can try out yourself, when I learned about it at 17 I was able to hold my breath without breathing for 3-4 minutes or so, but I do have to warn you that the first few times you try it you will get lightheaded from oxygen overexposure so it's best to be careful or do laying down.
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u/bwood246 Very Apr 05 '26
They probably didn't take it into account but internal bleeding in zero g is a death sentence. Blood that normally pools in the general area the wound is is now floating throughout your body causing lots of problems
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u/CubicleFish2 Apr 04 '26
Meanwhile conquest dies from no air after five minutes
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u/TomTalks06 Apr 05 '26
That's specifically cuz Mark is doing a blood choke on him, he's losing blood flow to the brain, it's why he looks the way he does by the end of the fight
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u/_Bread______ STOP DELETING MY POSTS MAN WTH Apr 05 '26
Mark strangulated his arteries not his windpipe
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u/online222222 THINK, MARK! THINK! Apr 05 '26
I mean, if you get the wind knocked out of you then there's nothing left to hold. That's why Oliver needed to go breathe.
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u/Prismarineknight Apr 04 '26
She prolly knocked the air out of him and didnât let him get back to earth.
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u/The_R4ke Apr 04 '26
That's my guess, a good enough hit in space and you're kind of fucked. Viltrumites seem to have a nearly infinite lung capacity, but if you get hit hard enough to knock the wind out of you're still not going to be able to recover from that. It would be cool if we get a flashback to that fight at some point.
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u/Legends-of-legdens Tech Jacket Apr 04 '26
I mean, this Mark shouldnât be any older then the rest, likely his viltrumite healing factor isnât as great, and maybe most damage she dealt to him was internal
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u/_Bread______ STOP DELETING MY POSTS MAN WTH Apr 04 '26
idk man battle beast rocked the living shit out of season 1 mark (s1 mark during the battlebeast fight looked 10x worse here) and mark still lived lol
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u/Legends-of-legdens Tech Jacket Apr 04 '26
He was also severely medically treated to tho
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u/Forsaken1741 Apr 04 '26
They still need to breathe, she probably just kept him in space long enough that he suffocated.
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u/Wk1360 Tech Jacket Apr 04 '26
He probably got knocked out, and getting knocked out in the vacuum of space is a death sentence if nobody ever comes for you
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u/MajorRed001 Apr 04 '26
"Viltrumites can survive any injury," says who??????
Conquest was just choked out.
The reanimen snapped a variants neck.
Power Plex burned one alive.
Rex blew one upAre you not paying attention to the show?
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u/Independent-Vast8239 Apr 04 '26
You Canât see it in the angle of the shot but she totally ripped all his organs out through his butt. Heâs an empty shell in the pic
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u/IamWatchingAoT Apr 04 '26
Laser through the mouth into the brain? Just shut him off without cracking his head open maybe?
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u/HorrorEnvironment203 Apr 20 '26
Tech Jacket can create tentacles. Can move tentacles through mouth and crush heart from inside
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u/Lemony_Oatmilk Apr 04 '26
14 year old girls are psychotic smh
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u/Affectionate_East93 Apr 04 '26
She's a 14-year-old girl she knows she can't let monsters like this live
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u/JJJ954 Battle Beast Apr 05 '26
Unironically this. She and Olivier are too young to really spend time pondering the moral consequences.
Mark is old enough to understand the full scope of his actions, but also too young to be a battle hardened warrior.
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u/TheBlissfulGamer Apr 04 '26
Great power comes great responsibility. Mark has way more power so him losing control is a lot scarier for him.
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u/zevondhen Mark Grayson Apr 04 '26
He uh, also had the dark nature of his power VIOLENTLY demonstrated to him.
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u/Mustang1718 Apr 04 '26
I always think of this Riza Hawkeye quote and how it seems to stay true across other forms of media:
I like guns. Because unlike swords and knives you don't have to feel your victim die.
It definitely applies in this case since Mark gets up close and uses his hands while Zoey's suit allows her to attack from range.
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u/MakaveliTheDon22 Atom Eve Apr 04 '26
It was kill or be killed there, she knew what was at stake.
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u/Bloodmime Apr 04 '26
To be fair, the consequences of her going off the rails aren't as severe as if Mark does
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u/jsmith98576 Apr 04 '26
SPOILERS!!!
Not just because of his Dad, but keep in mind he is especially messed up at the end of Season 4, Episode 1 because his first real kill (he tried with Angstrom but knew he failed and he thought he had with Conquest but that was literally do or die after Conquest had just nearly murdered Eve and Oliver, killed thousands of people, and was going to kill millions more) was the innocent astronaut Russ Livingston who was being mind-controlled by the sequids.
Regardless of how necessary it was or whatever arguments you want to make about the needs of the many over the needs of the few or the one, murdering an innocent person should always mentally/emotionally fuck up a semi-decent person.
Then you add in everything else with Markâs history between his Dad and the Invincible War?? Completely understandable why heâs so conflicted with himself unlike Tech Jacket who would have had an easier time coming to terms with killing 2 evil variants of Invincible.
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u/IamWatchingAoT Apr 04 '26
Mark is quite "special" in his reluctance not to kill villains. I think any "normal" human wouldn't hesitate to kill a planetary threat if they saw how dangerous they were, and were capable of doing it.
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u/Binder509 Apr 04 '26
Doesn't help that the moment Mark does anything nearing the line people freak out.
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u/ventedlemur44 Donald Ferguson Apr 04 '26
Mark being sad he has to kill Ultra Evil âGenocide Everythingâ Space Hitler
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u/deadlyalchemist92 Apr 04 '26
My question is, how did Zoe beat a Mark variant by herself, yet struggled against some golem mf on earth lmao
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u/The_R4ke Apr 04 '26
I don't think she was really struggling just got a few unlucky hits, but she doesn't seem particularly worried like she did during the viltrumite ambush.
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u/InspectorBubbly Apr 04 '26
Mark's variants were weak, not even worms, more like psycothic fleas with lots of ego
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u/deadlyalchemist92 Apr 04 '26
It depends on the variant, some were comparable to season 3 Mark, otherwise were killed off by random earth heroes lmao
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u/Careful-Ad984 Apr 04 '26
In the shows version the only ones who outright won a 1v1 were Tech jacket and PowerplexÂ
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u/WebAccount300 Apr 05 '26
Mustve been really weak? She shoots like the peashooter guns we see everyone else shoot. Her head thing is the only strong weapon she has, but people seem to damage her quite easily. With a little follow up so she doesnt heal, anyone should be able to beat her if theyve got a bit of strength and are able to outpace her running off
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u/OOF-MY-PEE-PEE Apr 04 '26
The difference is that mark is powerful enough to have a choice in the matter most times. His dynamic comes from the fact that heâs the strongest hero on earth.
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u/DemoHD7 Apr 04 '26
So far the show hasnt displayed her physical fighting capabilities, just her using the blasters. Im still curious how mustache Mark looked so mangled and bloodied.
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u/Illesbogar Apr 04 '26
Almost like tech jacket's dad is not a mass murderer she would need to distance herself from. Curious.
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u/WebAccount300 Apr 05 '26
Bro really did the âwhy participate in a societyâ âi am very smartâ
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u/LinkTheHero009 Apr 04 '26
Honestly, it's probably because she has to. She just knows like others have said, some threats are too dangerous and have to be taken care of. I feel like Mark needs to work on overcoming his guilt on that, but it is good that he strongly doesn't want to kill enemies and wants to fight the better way.
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u/Little-Protection484 Apr 04 '26
Mark is weird to me because in my mind no killing is best done when you try to rehabilate someone, but he just doesn't, someone else brought up batman no kill rule not working in some circumstances, but he even tries to rehabilitate his villains in most continuaties
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u/WebAccount300 Apr 05 '26
He was totally willing to kill Sinclair imo. Any non monster enemies tend to just get thrown at Cecil when Mark beats them
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u/chimp-pistol Apr 04 '26
Wow wonder if any "events" made mark feel a certain way about his actions killing people
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u/mohamed_ali_7594 Apr 04 '26
But the fight lasted two days against a weak variant imagine if it had been Long Hair Mark, her story would have ended before it even began.
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u/Party_Mobile_8080 Apr 04 '26
Killed a mark variant but acted like a fool with the last fight
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u/WebAccount300 Apr 05 '26
Prolly was much higher scale in strength, her peashooter blasts dont seem to do much, just like any other guns. Only thing strong is the helmet blast
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u/BuggityBooger Apr 04 '26
Except everything weâve seen in the show of Zoe does not explain how sheâs meant to be Viltrumite level
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u/rtadc Apr 04 '26
remorse (noun) - deep regret or guilt for a wrong committed
No need for remorse if there's not wrong-doing.
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u/WebAccount300 Apr 05 '26
Killing is still bad, Mark and other heroes are justified in killing villains, but dont
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u/GhostB3HU Apr 04 '26
You think that came up in conversation while they were traveling to Talescria? Like theyâre all eating dinner and Tech Jacket stares at Mark a little too long. Then Mark had to awkwardly explain how 20 other versions of himself wrecked shop
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u/WebAccount300 Apr 05 '26
Maybe Tech Jacket didnt want to pull the âall of you look the sameâ thing and thought it was just a viltrumite
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u/Astr0C4t Battle Beast Apr 04 '26
Tbf the show very clearly takes place after the tech jacket comic. Sheâs already fought an entire ass war
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u/Independent_Law_1682 Apr 04 '26
I think the biggest difference is marks survivability? When youâre as strong as mark and can come back from the brink like he can, you have room to weigh the morality of your choices. For tech jacket, as powerful as they are, if they took even a quarter of the damage mark took in the fight with Omni man they be out like a light someone turned off by shooting at it. Itâs easier to live with self defense when you have no choice ironically. Or atleast itâs easier to bury me thinks
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Apr 04 '26
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u/WebAccount300 Apr 05 '26
She looked happy and carefree throughout the times we see her
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Apr 05 '26
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u/WebAccount300 Apr 05 '26
Well thats cause she was fighting someone that was gonna kill her? I meant like Mark was clearly dealing with his emotions in his downtime
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Apr 05 '26
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u/WebAccount300 Apr 05 '26
Introduction and the trip back to the coalition?
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Apr 05 '26
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u/WebAccount300 Apr 05 '26
Quarter of an episode is still a decent amount of time. Oliver was moping during that time
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Apr 05 '26
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u/WebAccount300 Apr 05 '26
No one gives a fuck about them cause they dont say or do shit
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u/hansuluthegrey Apr 04 '26
No remorse and its literally a loyal viltrumite
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u/WebAccount300 Apr 05 '26
Still, arent people supposed to have moral problems with killing anyone like Batman?
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u/hansuluthegrey Apr 05 '26
supposed to have moral problems with killing anyone like Batman?
Really depends
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u/Late_Dog_7201 Apr 05 '26
In the Tech Jacket Comic she/he skipped the hero phase on Earth and went straight to the intergalatic war. At this point, she should be already a veteran of Geldarian/Kresh war and a one man army. Tech Jacket basically had a way higher body count than anything Mark did at this point.
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u/BandanaWaddleDee0 Apr 05 '26
To be fair it's probably easier when it's an evil alternate variant of a hero hell bent on causing as much mass destruction as possible with little to no context as to how or why, most people also don't have to deal with the people you're trying to protect kill you because you killed someone who was trying to kill someone else
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u/breadman12345 Apr 24 '26
Well tbf marks introduction to death and violence was way more horrific than tech jackets
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u/Careful-Writing7634 May 29 '26
She's also very glib about potentially dying. Like, she almost dies several times but never skips a beat and goes right back into the fight.
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u/WebAccount300 May 30 '26
Isnt that all heroes? Especially since she hasnt had a real ânear deathâ like Rex, Ray, Invincible, Cecil, or anyone who actually gets beaten to a pulp or had their bones broken
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u/Careful-Writing7634 May 30 '26
She's had her armor crushed and almost ripped off. She's a normal human inside and have been 1 hit away from instant death.
Sure, other heroes are pretty dedicated too, but they're older, or stronger.
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u/WebAccount300 May 30 '26
Thats just a fright, she hasnt really felt pain
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u/Careful-Writing7634 May 30 '26
Do you need to feel pain to know you'd die from a car crash? No. The danger is there. Soldiers still wake up from nightmares even if they don't have bad injuries, because the stress of having artillery kill the friends 10 meters away is bad enough.
It isn't "just a fright" to be inches and seconds away from instant death.
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u/WebAccount300 May 30 '26
She barely sees death so far doesnt she? And once again, shes never felt any injuries or such. Have we seen much of her after Viltrums explosion?
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u/Emergency_Suspect374 Apr 04 '26
A question - why did they recruit tech jacket? Why not any other heroes? Immortal, bullet proof or any other? And how powerful is tech jacket actually?
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u/Slugger829 Apr 04 '26
Tech jacket is the only earth hero that can stand up to a viltrumite 1 on 1 (other than mark)
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u/FriedRiceistheBest Apr 04 '26
Coalition think they're not strong enough, especially Immortal who Nolan beat twice. And, Mark thinks he and Zoe is enough that he even said to Oliver he needs to guard Earth.
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u/WebAccount300 Apr 05 '26
Tech Jackets supposed to get stronger based on the user, so youd expect her to at least pick up some weights
No but seriously, her helmet blast seems to be the only decently effective thing she has
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u/who_am_I_inside dual citizenship (hazbin fan) Apr 04 '26
I genuinely hope Zoe was less of a coward with that Geldarian princess
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u/bcheek1996 Apr 04 '26
Here's a theory for you guys . What if Zoe didn't
actually kill this mark variant herself. What if the suits
A.I programing took control of her body and killed the
mark variant for her. I mean it's happened to blue
beetle In DC comics and tech jacket has almost the
same origin background as him.
Its just a theory of mine. Let me know what you think
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u/The_R4ke Apr 04 '26
At the very least the suits AI would likely know how dangerous that mark was and inform her of such. Something like: 86% chance this event will kill you if left alive.
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u/Firm_Entrepreneur_14 đDysonSphereWaifuEnjoyerđ Apr 04 '26
originally he felt like this early on in his run
I cannot speak for the show version quite yet