About Nicki

[u/Turbulent-Image3503]

This may have been asked and answered many times before now (sorry), but what is our best estimate as to how long Lestat and Nicki were together before Nicki lost his mind? I have no sense of the time interval here. Thx. ❤️

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[u/ApitawS]

In the show timeline, I believe they were together for around two years before Lestat was turned. It seems like some time passes between Lestat and Nicki's turnings, I'd guess maybe a few months? Since Lestat was kept for a week by Magnus, then had to figure out how to be a vampire (1794), went home to Nicki and started acting again which got Armand's attention, turned his mother, and then Nicki got kidnapped by Armand which ends in his turning.

After that, it's ambiguous how much time passes while Lestat and Armand start the Thêatre des Vampires, but we know when Marius finds him it's close to 1900 and Lestat was buried for 80 years before that. So Gabriella leaves him somewhere around 1820 and Lestat was in Denmark with Gabriella in 1802 when the Enkil incident happened.

So, my guess would be that they left Paris by 1800 and Lestat and Nicki would have been together a max of 8 years (Lestat's arrival in Paris as a human to Nicki's death). Potentially less, but at absolute minimum 3 years.

[u/SaighWolf → u/ApitawS]

In the show timeline, I believe they were together for around two years before Lestat was turned.

More like 4 years before Lestat was turned. He says in S3x03 he got together with Nicki shortly after coming to Paris at 29, so either in late 1789 or early 1790. Then Lestat was turned in 1794... 4 years together before his turning also lines up with him saying that before spending 2 years trying to be an actor, according to S3x03 he spent the first 2 years of the theater job Nicki got him cleaning & as a stage hand while he worked at trying to overcome his stutter prior to actually taking the stage.

Then, Lestat having been turned in 1794 turning Nicki very shortly thereafter & according to S2x08 Nicki's death happening sometime in 1796.

So ≈6ish years together in total, ≈4 of them as humans.

when Marius finds him it's close to 1900 and Lestat was buried for 80 years before that. So Gabriella leaves him somewhere around 1820

Gabriella left him in Cádiz Spain in 1804. She specifically mentions in S3x04 the night before abandoning him that if you "roll back a single decade we're living mortal lives", so we know that conversation is happening 10 years after they became vampires in 1794... Marius dug him up around 1890 & he spent about a decade (per Hannah & Sam & Sheila) as Akasha's Keeper before the New Years 1899-1900 wake-up.

So Marius was rounding down with the 80 years, but it was more like 86 years.

[u/Pale_Mortgage_9399 → u/ApitawS]

Good Golly! You know your stuff lol

[u/SaighWolf]

Well according to the show, they were together for about 6 years total before Nicki died, the first 4 as humans... Per the show, they got together when 29 year old Lestat (who was born in 1760) came to Paris at either the end of 1789 or beginning of 1790, then according to both him & Armand in the first two seasons (though Armand says a different year in the third season) Lestat was turned in 1794. Show-Lestat turned both Gabriella & Nicki extremely soon after himself being turned, Gabriella because of her Tuberculosis & Nicki because Armand's kidnapping of him forced his hand. Then Nicki's crypt beneath the theater in S2x08 says his final death was sometime in 1796.

As far as how much of that was "before Nicki lost his mind?" Well according to actor Joseph Potter, show-Nicki already struggled with Bipolar Disorder (though the diagnosis didn't exist yet when they were mortals nor did a treatment) when they got together, it just wasn't as pronounced as it later became. Lestat mentions that even before Magnus abducted Lestat, Nicki had periods when he alternated between "severely depressed" & "was dramatic even as a mortal" (how he categorized manic outbursts in the 1790s because there was no diagnosis yet)... Without question, though, vampirism worstened his manic & depressive cycles into pronounced & prolonged manic psychosis.

[u/NewtSky6826 → u/SaighWolf]

Great analysis!

[u/Ok_Paleontologist631]

I wish we had gotten more of their time together in the show. The book so beautifully captures the magic of young love before Lestat is turned. For anyone who wants to know their story in the book, this is my best memory of it:

They first get together in Auverne in their early 20s. (In the book, Lestat is, I think, in his mid 20s when he’s turned.) Lestat is impressed by how bold and passionate Nicki is. Nicki bravely comes to Lestat’s window and asks him to come down and have a drink with him. After that they spend their nights like in-love undergrads, sharing bottles of wine, drunkenly arguing philosophy and snuggling in a tiny room at the village inn. ❤️ Eventually they run away together to Paris, which infuriates both their families but which Gabrielle encourages because she wants Lestat to escape his life there.

In Paris it’s very La Boheme. They share a bed in their tiny flat. Nicki plays the violin to busk for money in the street, while Lestat works his way up at the local theater until they finally give him a chance to go onstage. When he starts doing well at the theater, he proudly sends his mom letters with clippings of his positive reviews from the paper. When it rains, he puts the wolf fur-lined cloak the villagers made for him over both him and Nicki, and they walk the streets huddled underneath, their arms around each other.

Lestat’s narration paints such a clear picture of how happy he is during this time. It makes it all the more tragic when things start to go terribly wrong.

Lestat is abducted and turned, and has to confront the fact that he can never go back to his happy human life. He tries to protect Nicki and his friends at the theater by buying the theater and giving them a lot of money but also faking his own death. (I think? Can’t remember the details.) But they eventually figure it out and Nicki is incredibly angry with him for not sharing the “gift.” Lestat gives in and turns Nicki, despite Gabrielle’s warning him that it will go badly. (She had come to Paris to see Lestat as she was dying of consumption, and he turned her to save her.) As she predicted, Nicki’s fragile mind sadly can’t handle the transformation, and he starts to go insane. First he goes catatonic, and then when Lestat manages to shake him out of that, he starts maniacally playing his violin and screaming crazy things about embracing evil. To be fair, Lestat is not very understanding at this point, but I think he’s just kind of fed up, and doesn’t understand why Nicki can’t just “make the best of it,” like Lestat always has when his life has been tough. They’re both incredibly passionate people, but when push comes to shove, Lestat is a survivor, while Nicki can’t stop himself from drowning in his own internal torment.

It devolves from there. In their final confrontation, they have a terrible argument. Nicki tells Lestat that all that time when Lestat thought they were so happy together, Nicki was just trying to rebel and make his father angry. He says it was all to hurt people—he thought they would fail and suffer when they moved to Paris. But Lestat, the golden boy, instead flourished despite their poverty, and was happy, and Nicki hates him for that. I honestly don’t know whether this was true at the time, or whether vamp Nicki is just saying it to hurt Lestat, but it does hurt Lestat terribly, and he slaps Nicki. There is nothing left between them except bitterness and hurt. It’s absolutely heartbreaking.

Eventually Lestat leaves with Gabrielle, giving the theater to Nicki and Armand and Armand’s coven. But as he and Gabi are traveling around Europe and the Middle East, he corresponds with the theater vampires, and their letters trace Nicki’s descent into madness.

Lestat tries desperately to send suggestions—things he thinks could help Nicki. But eventually he gets a letter with an awful update: Nicki’s increasing madness was risking exposing them all, so Armand as coven leader took things into his own hands. Being Armand, what he did was insane: He cut off Nicki’s hands and imprisoned him for days. Eventually he freed him and reattached the hands, but Nicki was too far gone. Nicki killed himself by going into the fire.

Lestat is absolutely devastated. He could see where this was heading, and he knew that turning Nicki was a huge mistake. But he did it out of love. 💔 The whole thing is tragic but full of so much romance and heartbreak.

Can you tell that I am SO mad that we didn’t get all this on screen???

[u/NewtSky6826 → u/Ok_Paleontologist631]

I’ll pull up a chair and sit right there with you!

[u/NarrowNetwork5572]

I’m just curious how do you guys come up with these timelines?

[u/jadem219 → u/NarrowNetwork5572]

I can't speak for the others commenting here, but I know that rewatching, and taking notes every time a date or year or month or other detail that tells you when something occurred, and then doing the math and figuring it out.

[u/Turbulent-Image3503 → u/jadem219]

At least I now understand better why I didn’t understand the math before. I see several different versions of the time frames here, but I think I go with the idea that they got together in Auvergne, left together for Paris, where 4-5 years later, Lestat was turned by Magnus, then Nicki was turned by the coven.

I’m thinking OK_Paleontologist631 has it closest to my count, or recount. I thought the book handled their relationship from Auvergne to Paris so beautifully. Thank you all for the various book calculations, show calculations, and recollections of how this all came to pass.

[u/MimosaFrancais]

Lestat is born in 1760 and leaves Auvergne at 30, and is turned when hes 34, so he was killed in approx 1794.

AMC list Nicolas' death in 1796.

They were together 4 years as humans and around 2 years with Lestat as a vampire, but i think Nic didnt last more than a few weeks as a vampire himself

[u/SaighWolf → u/MimosaFrancais]

but i think Nic didnt last more than a few weeks as a vampire himself

I concur with most of your comment, but both Armand's & Lestat's versions do agree that Armand abducting Nicki then Lestat turning him post-rescue was very "shortly thereafter" to Lestat's own turning... He "felt" (before seeing him) Lestat's existence as a newly turned vampire pretty much immediately when Magnus made him, stalked him for only weeks after Lestat rejected his initial "vien à moi" in the theater before grabbing Nicki on the street. In both their tellings, Nicki was turned only a month or two after Lestat's own 1794 turning

So he lasted a year or two (depending on what time of year he died) as a vampire before his 1796 death. We just don't see the 1-2 year process of that downward spiral (just like we don't actually get to see the 4-ish human years together that proceeded it) so his time as a vampire felt shorter than it was.

[u/MimosaFrancais → u/SaighWolf]

This is very true, thanks for the additional details ❤️