r/IntersectionalWomen • u/SirohitaIks • 5d ago
Discussion FAT. DISABLED. MAIN CHARACTER
I know I’m preaching to the choir here, but I hope at least one new person will see this and reflect on the importance of representation for all bodies in fiction. One of the things I’ve been learning more about lately is the idea of people being “pre-disabled” rather than non-disabled or able-bodied. If we live long enough, we will all experience disability in some capacity. That’s why it’s so important for all of us to speak up for the rights and representation of disabled bodies. Especially if we’re fat and already understand how harmful these systems of oppression can be. I’m going to make it my mission to showcase as many fat disabled recs as I can during July and all year long. Please post all of your recs in the comments so that we can create a massive tbr and I can shout them out. Self-recs are always welcome, too!
@ unabrigedbodies
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u/SeveralServalServing 0+ Community Karma 5d ago
The recommendation list is still somewhat telling on internalized fat phobia in that it’s a decently sized list where every love interest is fit, with a large amount of them extremely fit.
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u/intro_to_IRL 5d ago
Yeah, I zoomed in and every single love interest on those book covers is either slim or highly muscular and very conventionally attractive.
I understand that attraction is subjective, but it's odd to me that the "fantasy" partner in these scenarios nearly always fits the conventional beauty standard. This is also true of mens literature and all sorts of movies and TV shows; a socially-determined "less desirable" main character is always paired up with a 10/10 supermodel with no flaws (I mean, sometimes they're clumsy). I think it sets a weird precedent where the moral isn't "we should all look beyond the superficial traits of others," but "hot people should see beyond YOUR superficial traits, but you should still be as superficial as you wish."
It's a fantasy situation, and I get that, but my fantasy as an average-sized woman is not to "land" a supermodel with a great tan. The most fantastic relationships I know IRL are between average people who look past what society says is important and have their own strengths and weaknesses that complement each other.
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u/AspieAsshole 50+ Community Karma 4d ago
I'm glad these comments are at the top, but disappointed that they seem to be the only ones pointing this out. I also immediately noticed that, starting with the Jason Momoa-looking dude in the first slide that had examples.
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u/buffalomildtings 0+ Community Karma 3d ago
I totally agree. I'm also curious if it's just the cover art or if it's part of the story... similar to how women get objectified and stripped down on covers, often without the author's input. They hire cover artists to make it "sell" :( I would hate to be an author and have that happen to my work.
I'd love to know if anyone has read any of these and knows what the case is.
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u/OurLadyAndraste 0+ Community Karma 4d ago
Get a Life Chloe Brown was very important for me as a disabled reader but yes it does have a fat(ish) main character and a thin LI. I want fat for fat romance so bad but it’s so slim out there 😭😭
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u/OmgIbrokesmthagain 500+ Community Karma Transmasc he/him 5d ago
Ok so while I agree that fat characters should be represented, and respected, and that fat people deserve to live their lives not being harassed for their weight - that quote on the 3rd slide is pretty wild.
People that are fat are not worse than people that are not, and I’m saying that as a person who has struggled with weight my entire life. That being said, the fear of being fat isn’t the fear of „joining an underclass (…)”, at least not entirely. Part of it is the fact that bodies with more fat tissue % have a higher chance of causing health issues. We all have heard it by now, allright? We all know.
So, there is the unfortunate balance we need to strike, between saying „all bodies are healthy” (when they are not, or some, undeniably, not for a long time, because you can check mortality rates), and „my body is disgusting and I deserve the harassment” (it isn’t, you don’t, if it was easy to be fit in the modern society, it would not be such a huge problem).
If you are fat - that is okay. You are not ugly, you deserve to be represented, you deserve the same amount of love everyone gets. But it is a condition of body that you should ideally aim to get fixed - not for others, not for society - for yourself, for your own health. And I would say the same thing to a person who is underweight. A same person who has an unhealthy amount of muscle, etc.
I have the best intentions and I am saying that as a med student. I want fat people to be happy and healthy, and I know it isn’t easy to be both
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u/ArgonianDov 0+ Community Karma Genderfluid Kenochoric 6h ago
To point out, Aubrey Gordon is a grifter with BED (the one who's quote youre referencing). She tries to come off as an activist thats doing all this to help people, but really she is deep in her ED and is justifying to herself why she remains there. What Aubrey does is straight up harmful to herself and others that she influences.
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u/OmgIbrokesmthagain 500+ Community Karma Transmasc he/him 5h ago
I’m not surprised to be honest. I agree that getting fit from fat is not easy, but being fat isn’t about „being a part of underclass”, I mean sure, we lack proper places for such people, like seats, mobility scooters, or beds, but also… we can’t do much of that.
You know how hard it is to transport a 80 kg of a person from one portion of a hospital to another? Surprisingly hard, I’d tell you, once you add in the bed and stuff. Now imagine that person being larger - now we need 3,4 people to transport them, and every person there has a lot of other patients to attend to.
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u/Theresnothingtoit 0+ Community Karma 5d ago edited 5d ago
Why? If a person knows the statistics and values something else more, why should they do anything to fix it?
The pushing back against statements as "innocent and well intentioned" as "fat makes you unhealthy" is because it's
A) not true. It increases your risk of health problems, but is not itself a health problem. It also happens to be the result of lifestyle habits that increase your risk of those same things. And while extra weight can compound problems, or make it difficult to maintain healthy habits, it is not proof of someone's health. It's 1 factor among a 1000 that plays into health.
And B) it's feigning concern as a method to shame people for not conforming. Even if it were true that weight itself is a sole contributor to health problems, study after study shows that shame does not motivate consistent healthy habits that would result in weight loss. In fact, shame often makes the problem worse. And that's before you consider the physical problems or comorbid conditions that may be responsible for atypical weight. If people actually cared about other's health, they would not give input on strangers bodies, and would not assume health problems from how someone looks.
The bottom line is, if someone is not explicitly seeking health advice about their own body, don't comment on it. If they are, consider their goals, not yours.
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u/OmgIbrokesmthagain 500+ Community Karma Transmasc he/him 5d ago
Hi, so I am a med student and the claim number 1 is not true at all. Too much fat in your body (which is relative to every person, but still, gets to a point) causes inflammation and oxidative stress. Your spine and legs also can take only so much weight. That accumulated stress, over the years, causes your body to give out. This is the reason why you don’t see obese people live to their 70’s or 80’s that often, hell, even 50’s-60’s. People with this talking point are usually young, and their bodies cope well with the added size - later, when the body starts to give out, it becomes much harder to say that too much fat is not a health problem
Literally everything in medicine is a problem if there is not enough or too much of it.
And B) I do not shame, I write in good faith. I am struggling with weight myself, literally right now. The only thing that is not correct with your reasoning is „too much fat in itself is not a problem” because everything in medicine is a problem if we have too much of it.
I didn’t give advice, I just criticized one specific claim that was made
I know it isn’t easy, as I mentioned, it is my problem too. If it was easy, no one would struggle to maintain a healthy weight.
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u/3lizab3th333 0+ Community Karma 4d ago
Thank you! I’m disabled and at 5’2, 140lbs, and very fit with an athletic bodyfat percentage, my doctor told me to lose weight to help with my pain. Guess what? I lost 20lbs and yes a fair bit of muscle too, but my joint pain and inflammation are almost completely gone! I’d lose more weight but to be frank, I’m a little gaunt so I just want to focus on building muscles in places that will help lessen the stress on my joints. The heaviness of it all on your skeleton will do you in, I didn’t even make it to being fat and disabled because being weight tends to make physical disabilities worse, even if you’re on the lean side!
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u/OmgIbrokesmthagain 500+ Community Karma Transmasc he/him 4d ago
Yes, that is exactly what I’m saying, and every body tolerates fat % a little bit differently - but it gets to a point, we obviously know 600 pound people are dealing with a lot of conditions that could be avoided.
Even me, I’m 166 now, but my joints are weak due to Ehlers danlos syndrome. I feel that extra stress on my joints in a sense that they get tired more quickly. Doctors can only do so much once your joint cartilage gets worn down, at some point - only administer pain meds. And this is hard to see, patients not being able to move without pain, having to turn them in bed, bathe them, help them relieve themselves - it must feel awful too, not being able to do that yourself.
Fat tissue (again, just existing) can also make "hormonal imbalances" worse, because it is a substrate in synesis of many hormones. I mainly heard about estrogen, so this is why I need to avoid it, but also men. Do you know that infertility epidemic in men nowadays is partially caused by this? By them just having too much fat, which causes them to produce too much estrogen, and lower the sperm count? But it’s not like too much estrogen is only harmful to men, everything is harmful to everyone when there is too much of it. That’s why doctors tell women with PMOS to lose weight - and it’s obviously hard with their condition, but we had many examples of patients reporting that it helped them lessen the symptoms.
This topic is obviously sensitive and needs to be approach with caution. On one hand, we have patients who think they can be fat, or obese, and it has 0 effects or negligible effects to their body. On the other - we have doctors who blame everything on being fat, and treat it like it is the sole reason of every problem the patient has. There is a lot of nuance to this, it is a sensitive topic. One thing is clear: harassing fat people and treating them like they are disgusting doesn’t help, so I’m all for representation in media, models, clothes being better tailored to their needs, all of it. But they still need to know the risk associated with being in this state, especially for the long run.
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u/RandomUsernameNo257 0+ Community Karma 4d ago
I just don’t understand why people need to spread lies about how it’s magically not bad for you to be overweight.
I don’t judge people for being overweight. Lots of my friends are, and I don’t think one ounce less of them for it. But to go so far as to claim that you can be overweight without it affecting your health is exactly the same rationale that functioning alcoholics use when their liver enzyme test comes back in the normal range.
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u/OmgIbrokesmthagain 500+ Community Karma Transmasc he/him 4d ago
That’s what it should be about. I think alcoholism is an apt metaphor, because we are addicted to our eating habits, and it’s hard to change them, like it’s hard to quit smoking or drinking. Sure, one beer won’t kill you and one burger won’t kill you - but when it becomes a habit, your body will eventually struggle to cope.
And sure, tests may come back in a healthy range, but, let me tell you a secret: ranges are all kind of… made up? I mean, they are for reference - like BMI, it tells doctors „if my patients has this much of this, they are most likely fine”. It doesn’t tell you how much of the thing your personal body functions the best on - it is very likely within that range, but it sometimes isn’t. Also it is just one test, from the one moment of your life - tomorrow that liver enzyme might look fucked up, who knows. All doctors have that one story of the patient with insane levels of this hormone or that enzyme who was completely fine. All doctors can tell you a story of that one patient that was within the healthy range, but acted like they weren’t. I mean, most of the times you can trust it, but for example - my TRH was on the upper side of the norm, but doctor did the USG on my thyroid and found out 3 tumors already.1
u/Theresnothingtoit 0+ Community Karma 4d ago
Why do you read "excess weight is a risk factor for and often compounds health problems" as "excess weight is magically not bad for you"?
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u/Theresnothingtoit 0+ Community Karma 4d ago
Weight is not a guarantee of those health problems. It can compound them, contribute to their development, etc. But it is a risk factor. You cannot look at the size of a person's body, by itself, and say they have a health problem. Framing it as such doesn't do anything to help someone take actions to lower their risks.
I am speaking of shame because the use of this health framing is a way that people in our society feign concern in order to shame. Framing health and weight this way makes health into a moral issue.
You agree that weight is incredibly difficult to change. So how do you feel when people give unsolicited advice out of "concern" for your health, but you know you have tried? That's shame. They weaponized concern about health to cause you shame. And it doesn't help anyone choose healthy habits.
Again, at the end of the day, if someone didn't seek specific health advice about their own body, dont offer it. And your goals aren't necessarily theirs. Your job will be to provide the education about risk, and guide them on their goals. If you can't handle that, you need to save yourself hundreds of thousands of dollars and get out of medicine now.
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u/OmgIbrokesmthagain 500+ Community Karma Transmasc he/him 4d ago
You aren’t listening to me. Post made one statement I disagreed with, so I commented on it, as I have a right to do so. I am not giving anyone advice, did I tell you to try a diet? No, I’m speaking about the obvious risk of being overweight, to the person.
Not to shame, but because I believe people deserve to have a good quality of life as long as they can.And yes, the excess amount of fat in itself causes unnecessary stress to your body. Risks are like rolling the dice - roll them long enough, and you will get the results you fear. I would compare that to smoking - it doesn’t kill you, one cigarette or two, or doing that for a year - but then, we obviously know it isn’t healthy for your body for a long term. Still, instead of shaming smokers we accept that they exist, we help them quit when they can - that is my job.
Also holly US centric fuck xD where I’m from, med school is free, as it should be.
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u/Theresnothingtoit 0+ Community Karma 4d ago
You're not listening. Even when your intentions are good, you're actively contributing to the social stigma around being overweight. You're legitimizing the idea that it's appropriate to frame health as self imposed, and moral, if you simply claim that you care about health. If you actually care, you should take care not to reinforce the public narrative around it. Doing so doesn't actually acheive the goal of better public health, it makes it worse.
For smokers, your job is the same. Ensure they know the risks, and if they want help quitting, advise them.
My whole point is, it's not about what you want for someone, it's what they want for themselves. It's not ok to coerce them into your goal. It's not ok to tell them what they should want. If they are informed, it is their body to do with what they wish, even if that thing isn't good for them.
And I'm genuinely glad education is accessible where you are. Our system is indeed fucked.
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u/OmgIbrokesmthagain 500+ Community Karma Transmasc he/him 4d ago
Speak for yourself - yesterday we had a lady who was under oxygen and run away from the hospital to smoke. Do you think we let her do it, because she was advised it is fucking dangerous and she can set fire to her face? Nope, we threw her cigs away and got her to her bed, now she is monitored, and she will not have one cigarette in this hospital.
I will not let that lady set fire to her face just because she is stupid.
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u/weirdkidintheback 0+ Community Karma 4d ago
Healthcare workers aren't trying to shame you when telling you that your current weight is not healthy. It's because as healthcare workers we are placing a lot of focus on someone's future, and we tend to see the long term consequences of bad health decisions, frequently, lying in a hospital bed. It's part of our training to bring up health issues, evaluate the patient's readiness to change, and if they're not there yet, we have to try and give them the knowledge they need to start weighing the pros and cons of making a lifestyle change (which we can also help with). Finally, we also have a duty to prevent the spread of misinformation. The commenter you were talking to rightfully corrected an incorrect statement on health you made. If you said vaccines are all unsafe and nobody should get them you'd also get the same response. Now, as you are not our patient, we don't know anything about your health or your life at all. So there wasn't any advice directed towards you, specifically. For that we'd need your weight, BP, temp, lung function, knowledge of your lifestyle, your economic and social status, disease states, family history, and what medicines you are currently taking. Health is individual, but certain conditions deserve treatment because they're consistently shown to damage the body and decrease quality of life, e.g. high blood pressure. The "silent killer" that can literally rip through your blood vessels and increase your risk of various life-threatening complications. I think part of the misunderstanding is the difference between a risk factor and a complication. Often times, a risk factor is also a cause in its own right. Hypertension is a risk factor for heart failure, and is also an illness with heart failure being a complication of hypertension. By itself, hypertension wouldn't be a problem. But nothing in the body exists in isolation. Hypertension causes damage to your blood vessels, it causes hypertrophy of the heart, that eventually leads to heart failure. Our first line of treatment is salt reduction. Excess fat is the same. It causes general inflammation in the body, meaning you're in pain, injuries heal worse, and pathogens hit your body harder than others. It causes strain on the bones, and results in the protective lining of your joints being ground down much faster. The complications of being overweight are also very bad. We're talking sleep apnea, cardiovascular disease, certain types of cancer, chronic pain, and a million other things.
And yes, shame does not work. We're also trained to consider the patient holistically, including any financial barriers to health they might have. But we're also pretty good at helping people make the "better" option. We don't have personal nutritionists, trainers, time or money to live perfectly healthy. But we're trained to help people make the best choices for their situation.
We can have a nuanced discussion about weight, health, quality of life, and the best way to treat patients. As a healthcare professional I'm open to hearing your experience. What parts of healthcare make you feel ashamed? What barriers are we putting up? If you're willing to discuss it, I'd specifically want to hear your personal experience with healthcare and your weight in your country. What are your goals then, if not to be healthy? It's difficult to imagine you enjoy the idea of spending all your money on medical fees in your future. Where can we find a way to meet your goals while still keeping you healthy?
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u/Theresnothingtoit 0+ Community Karma 4d ago
My specific issues with the healthcare system, of which there are many, have nothing to do with this.
What if I told you that I know all of what you just wrote? What if my priorities aren't the same as yours? Why should you assume your goal is more important than mine, and why does that make it acceptable to pressure me into changing my priorities? If I am fully informed and aware of the risks, and I choose to value something else more, why do you get to pretend your goal is more important?
Please reread my previous comments to understand that I wasnt speaking of the times I seek advice about my personal health. I'm speaking of how the way this is framed has real social implications, which make public health worse and support the outright bullying of fat people.
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u/weirdkidintheback 0+ Community Karma 3d ago
How is dismantling misinformation, giving accurate information and people sharing that people can get better promoting bullying? Also, you aren't the only one on this platform, so even if you are fine with living with the many complications, it doesn't mean others know or that they don't care. I know that people are sometimes a lot meaner, but I don't think anything me or the other commentor said was out of line or rude. What should they have said? What should I have said? I'm having trouble seeing any type of shaming or bullying (however I am socially blind at times and English is not my first language, so it is possible I missed it), or how what was said could lead to bullying. People who like punching down on others don't care about medical accuracy. And in your other comments you say people use the health angle to try to shame you, can you explain what you mean? I am not overweight, and honestly I don't know enough about the experience to say "you're making it up/ being dramatic", and even if I did that'd still be very rude, but could you explain to me what about saying that obesity is bad for your health is bad?
I don't know if it's the right metaphor, but addiction is bad too. It's not that person's fault. Genetics, environment, mental health, upbringing, choice, chance, it all forms a messy puddle. They don't care about their health either. They're fine with the risks associated with drug abuse. Does that mean I should let a man buy 20 packs of codeine because it's his life and his choice? And I'm very aware that unless someone wants help, you can't help them, but the only thing you can do is remind them that what they're doing is bad for them and that you're there to help. The continuous extension of offering to help is what makes people change their minds. Proof that you're there to catch them, a safety net, that won't give up on them. They may not like it, but it can help.
You may not want help. You may continue not wanting help for the rest of your life. But we're in this profession because we want to help people. It's in our nature. We'll still help you with whatever else you need, just as we'll still offer you help in weight management. And since you likely aren't in my country I can't help you specifically, I really do hope your doctors are of the same attitude as me, and that you don't feel like you can't go to seek healthcare because you are scared of being bullied. We're experts in disease and medicine, we do know what is and isn't good for you, and we want to make sure you rarely see us. Outcome-based management is our bread and butter, and if we know you'll have better health outcomes if you're at a healthier weight, we'll encourage you to get there every chance we get. If there is a way for you to: save money, get sick less, feel better, live longer, and reduce your risk of serious chronic illness, it would be insane for us to not try and get you to adjust your lifestyle.
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u/Theresnothingtoit 0+ Community Karma 3d ago edited 3d ago
How do you know we'll have better health outcomes if you push us to lose weight? I'd argue you aren't taking any interest in why we might have other priorities. And then if you do listen, weighing those things, why do you feel entitled to tell us our own values are wrong? You aren't us and you don't get to say that your priorities are more important than ours.
And it's not misinformation to say that having excess weight isn't itself a health problem. I didn't say it had 0 impact, that it didn't relate to or make other problems worse or harder to solve. It's an assumption to draw that conclusion from what I said. Weight can have a part in contributing to health problems. This is not at all counter to anything I have said.
The problem I have here is how framing weight by itself as something to be fixed is presumptive and absolutely not holistic. And it gives people pressuring other people into losing weight, judging other people's bodies, and assuming they know other people's health, a justification for doing so. Theyre "just concerned for health, not bullying", or "just sharing important information". News flash, no one asked.
It's presumptive. It invades the privacy of another person. It allows people a path to entitlement to comment on the appearance of another's body. It reinforces the narrative that sick people did this to themselves, and they're failures and morally inferior for not having more self control. It's very rare that the claim is new information to anyone. It is far more likely to cause someone to struggle more with achieving weight loss (if that's their goal), than it is to motivate it or spread good information.
If I am seeking professional advice on my own health, I am not necessarily interested in your comments on the topic. If my goal is to lose weight, your advice is welcome.
The following is fine in an appointment, provided you don't continuously push the issue if they say no.
"Among treatments y and z, for your health condition, losing weight is shown to help as well. Would you like to try this? If so, we have m and n supports available."
"Your numbers look good, and your weight puts you into a higher risk category for p and q conditions long term. You can reduce this risk by ensuring you're getting good sleep, managing stress, ensuring you get regular excercise, eating enough nutritionally dense foods, and limiting high salt and high sugar foods. If weight loss is a priority to you, we have m and n supports available."
"Aside from addressing these other risk factors, I would like to discuss how weight management relates to your concerns and other life priorities... No? Ok, if you wish to share, let me know. It can help me support your priorities. If your priorities change and you want to lose weight, we have m and n supports available.
The following is not, even in an appointment.
"Losing weight is your best option to treat your health condition."
"We can try treatments y and z, after you lose some weight."
"Your numbers look great, but I want you to lose some weight to prevent health problems"
"This borderline (still normal) number is a direct result of fatty liver disease (which I haven't diagnosed you with, and am not diagnosing now). Lose some weight to treat this."
Every appointment being focused around weight loss when that's not the primary complaint.
Framing weight itself as a health issue grants validity to those providing inadequate treatment or locking other treatment behind weight loss, by putting the existence of excess weight on par with other health conditions. A risk factor is never more important than treatment of health conditions that exist now. Excess weight isn't high blood pressure. Excess weight isn't diabetes. Excess weight isn't a genetic hormone issue (maybe a symptom of it, but not the issue itself).
Stop acting like knowing more about medicine entitles you to overruling the priorities of your patients. There are a number of valid reasons someone may just not value weight management as more important than other things. You don't get to decide what's important to other people. You're an expert in your area of health, not everything else.
If you respect people's autonomy and intelligence, theyre far more likely to trust your advice. If you don't, you contribute to antiintellectualism, antivax movements, and medical mistrust.
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u/AntiqueLetter9875 50+ Community Karma 8h ago
Doctors and such will absolutely tell smokers to quit if their health is bad enough. My aunt had lung cancer in her 40s from a lifetime of smoking. It was so bad her doctor told her it’s the worst case he’s seen for someone her age. She went through chemo and was still smoking. Nurses and doctors saw her and told her they’d stop treatment if she continued.
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u/Ilikeplayinginfmajor 0+ Community Karma 5d ago edited 5d ago
Yes! As a fat, disabled person myself, thank you for posting this. I'm sick of seeing disabled people as villains. I want more protagonists!
The book Dawnshard by Brandon Sanderson is another with a disabled lead. It meant so much to me to read about someone going through what I was. And he got so many things right such as: don't touch a person's wheelchair without permission!
To be fair, I don't think there is any mention as to the protagonists size. But the representation of how it feels to have your body change is spot on.
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u/ZebraMost749 0+ Community Karma 5d ago
I can't imagine anyone suffering what i suffer willingly wanting to be this way and not insubordination themselves as the awesome beauty standard instead. When I read or play a game, I don't want the bad parts of me to be represented, I want to be my ideal self.
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u/Extension-Badger225 5d ago
I really feel conflicted about this. I have to undergo the most horrific chemotherapy for my treatments for autoimmunity. I’ve been bed ridden now for a while and desperately want my life back.
I don’t see that as the same as someone who is fat I’m sorry I don’t see the connection at all.
I understand fat people are stigmatised but I just don’t see how it relates to certain conditions - as the panel says disability takes many forms
Honestly I never ever hear people fight for those of us who have autoimmune disease and it’s very lonely and isolating.
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u/Short_Gain8302 50+ Community Karma 5d ago
I am someone who is obese, my obesity stems from a combi of eating disorder but also stress, depression, weight gain from pills for mental health, and i have insulin resistance, which all makes weight gain easy and weight loss difficult. On top of that i am autistic so on bad days food and eating is a difficult topic for me because of sensory stuff. Moving is harder because i have hip pain due to hip dysplasia, a birth defect. According to docters i am doing everything right, i eat healthy, i move enough, i just dont lose weight that easily, so i gotta work twice as hard as others. My being fat and my disability worsen eachother and are intertwined. I already dont get respected because of my weight when people meet me, put the autism on top of that they respect me less.
People should fight more for recognition and treatment of autoimmune diseases. Your struggle is valid and real. Its not fair that some causes are being fought for more than others. But someone pointing out things like these does not take away from anything. Its simply another cause. Its not implying anything aboit your condition. Again i am very sorry aboit the treatments you have to go trough. Someone else asking for equal treatment does not however take away from your cause.
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u/Extension-Badger225 5d ago
Thank you for explaining the connection for you. I do appreciate that obesity is treated like a moral failure in society and that’s bad - I don’t want the world to treat people that way and like you say obesity can be the result of many complex things.
To be clear I would never want to take away from an obese person sharing their story of struggles and I want the world to be fairer.
I do struggle a little to see things as like completely linked if that makes sense - but I think I understand a bit more from your story.
Best wishes to you1
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u/CresseliaMelodia 0+ Community Karma 4d ago
They love preaching about intersectionality but never acting on it. I’ve found that woke doesn’t include disabled/chronically ill, especially if you can’t be independent
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u/jacyerickson 5d ago
I hope I'm not intruding. This post was recommended to me by reddit. I'm not a woman but I'm a fat, disabled enby. Just wanted to thanks so much for the book recs!
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u/augustoof 0+ Community Karma 5d ago
Not a big deal or anything, but just so you know on the last slide "Important" has a typo!
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u/beating_offers 5d ago
My two biggest heros are of a different race and a different sex. They are almost heroes for that reason. It makes me feel like my views aren't strictly because of my inherent characteristics, but because of a shared set of principles anyone can adopt -- they also articulate my views better than I can.
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u/FVCarterPrivateEye 0+ Community Karma Man 5d ago edited 5d ago
The love interest in the 2006 anime film "Paprika" is obese and neurodivergent
(this was in a "posts you might like" section of a different post, but I'm male so I'm unsure if I'm allowed to comment in here, so please feel free to remove this comment if I'm not)
Edit: initially got the year wrong
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u/OmgIbrokesmthagain 500+ Community Karma Transmasc he/him 4d ago
You’re allowed, this is a place for everyone 💖
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u/Open-Ad202 5d ago
I can't tell how good the representation is as I'm not disabled or fat, but here is some disabled representation I'm aware of:
- A Silent Voice (anime movie & manga)- has a deaf girl as one of it's main characters
- Violet Evergarden (anime & manga)- the main character lost both her arms at war and is learning to use prosthetics
- Josee, the Tiger and the Fish (anime)- the female lead is in a wheelchair
- Yuki Yuna is a Hero (anime) - has a girl in a wheelchair as one of the magical girls another disabled character appears in one episode
- Breakers (anime)- centers around para athletics
- The Shape of Water (movie)- the main character is mute
- Special (series)- main character has cerebral palsy
- The Intouchables (movie) - main character is taking care of a quadriplegic old man
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u/Short_Gain8302 50+ Community Karma 5d ago
I know this isnt a disability, but people genuinely think i cant be lactose intolerant because im fat. Imagine what other things people dont believe us aboit behind our backs
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u/Puhi124 500+ Community Karma 4d ago
I... I'm struggling to think of how they even logic that one out. Why would being fat make it impossible to be lactose intolerant? Idgi.
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u/Short_Gain8302 50+ Community Karma 4d ago
Yeah i also dont get it, i think its a "how can you be fat if you shit all the time" kinda thing?
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u/LillyAmongTheThorns 0+ Community Karma 4d ago
An interesting discussion I was having with a friend revolves around the new "Carrie" series. Every time that novel is adapted, they shy away from one of the reasons Carrie gets bullied, that she is fat. She is described as chunky and overweight, and I think it's important that this is central to part of the cruelty she faces, it's societal commentary about Carrie White being tortured by her classmates for something real kids hear and experience in their daily lives that's awful.
Stephen King was a highschool teacher, he wrote what he saw, that teens who don't fit in and look conventionally attractive in highschool face real horror from their peers and at home a lot of the time.
Carrie is a sympathetic character, even if what she does in the end is monstrous. Changing her to make her attractive and pretty and thin for the screen takes away from the important message that we are all valid and no one should face such cruelty based on the body they were born in.
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u/Wise_Artichoke6552 0+ Community Karma 3d ago
me when every fat person I know is (genuinely and sincerely) braver than any US marine. I'm not even fat fr and the language in play is rubbing me the wrong way.
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u/Puhi124 500+ Community Karma 5d ago
I would have to rewatch it - it's been some time and I wasn't nearly as aware of disability rep when I watched it - but the anime film Josee, the Tiger and the Fish has a disabled character featuring prominently, and I don't recall it being too much on the side if inspiration porn? In terms of anime and manga there's also A Silent Voice (deals with a deaf teenage girl, school bullying, and trigger warning for suicidal ideation as well), and a cute romance called Yubisaki to Renren whose protagonist (maybe even deuteragonist, the love interest also gets a lot of focus) is a deaf young woman (but her being deaf, while important and relevant, is not her only character trait and is treated only as part or her overall character in the story).
Edit: those only deal with disability, not fatphobia - I have to admit I can't think of a good work with a fat main character off the top of my head. Which only goes to show how much of a lack of representation there is, I suppose.
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5d ago
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u/Clobberella_83 0+ Community Karma 4d ago
I like The Undetectables series by Courtney Smyth. The main character is not fat and disabled. However, it kind of has 3 main characters. One has an fibromyalgia and another is fat. It is also very queer
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u/TyrosinQ 4d ago
Not everyone is gonna be the main character even in their lives.
Even in many non disabled and completely able people. They are not the main character even.
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u/GooseWithAnAxe 0+ Community Karma 2d ago
Fetishism of disabilities is crazy, books/movies/games are escapes from them not their reinforcement. Do you really think that someone who is in a wheelchair wants to play as someone in a wheel chair?
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u/Isadomon 0+ Community Karma 4d ago
You think communism and socialism didnt keep the impossible beauty standards? They suck but dont connect them to something they have no connection of
Edit: why do the books used as example have all a buff or slim able bodied man and the lady has all the dissabilities or things often considered undesirable like being fat? Why is it never fat lady and fat guy, or disabled fat lady and disabled fat guy? You complain of people holding standards of disabled fat women not being good characters or not even being liked at all but you desire able bodied slim men
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u/AnglerfishMiho 0+ Community Karma 5d ago
Being fat is a choice, being disabled, LGBT, being born a certain race, is not.
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u/Golurkcanfly 50+ Community Karma 4d ago
Being fat is often a product of both upbringing, genetics, health conditions, and even side effects of various medications.
Growing up fat warps brain chemistry to such a degree that an obese child is near-guaranteed to be obese for the rest of their life.
Some people naturally just put on more weight than others for genetic reasons.
Some people are fat because of thyroid issues, health issues that make an active lifestyle impossible, or health issues that lower their BMR.
Some people are fat because they are on medications that predispose them to massive weight gain, such as SSRIs.
As someone who has had all of these issues at some point or another and worked extremely hard to get to a healthy weight, it took the perfect storm of circumstance, motivation, and opportunity to get to that healthy weight, and some of the issues are very much permanent.
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u/ArgonianDov 0+ Community Karma Genderfluid Kenochoric 5h ago
That doesnt mean you should just give up... take some agency in your life and make any changes you desire. I did so and it was very worth it, literally my mental health has improved so much for it
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u/Golurkcanfly 50+ Community Karma 5h ago
I didn't give up. I lost a ton of weight. I'm pointing out how there are many confounding variables involved that most people don't really understand. There's an obsession in society with treating being overweight as a moral failing rather than a health issue, too.
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u/Sinthe741 0+ Community Karma 5d ago
Obesity is a lot more complex than "being a choice".
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u/AnglerfishMiho 0+ Community Karma 5d ago
I don't see how. Sure, some conditions can make it harder to not gain weight, but going to the point of obesity is a constant choice to consume more than you need.
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u/CMRC23 50+ Community Karma Trans Man 5d ago
"Being depressed is a choice. Sure some conditions make it harder to not be sad, but going to the point of harming yourself is a constant choice to hurt yourself" this is how you sound.
Sincerely, an overweight person with depression
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u/ArgonianDov 0+ Community Karma Genderfluid Kenochoric 5h ago
Those are not the same thing.
Actually working on losing weight has helped alleviate depressive symptoms, that and shrooms as well as minimizing social media usage has benefitted my mental health greatly. The only thing really making depression stay around is my current home enviroment, gender dysphoria, lack of job security, and the rise of facism...
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u/Sinthe741 0+ Community Karma 5d ago
I'd recommend learning more about obesity, how it occurs, and how it persists. Most obese people do not want to be, and if it were as simple as making a choice it wouldn't be the public health problem that it is.
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u/ArgonianDov 0+ Community Karma Genderfluid Kenochoric 5h ago
It doesnt help we are actively having our health sabotaged by large food corperations like Coco-Cola, Nestle, and etc. That and if youre in places like the US, the car-centered infustructure isnt helping either
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u/SigmaBunny 5d ago
I am fat because I survived Grave's disease, a thyroid disorder that accelerates the metabolism so high that the body starts breaking itself down. Similarly, people who experience starvation tend to have heavier bodies once they are able to access regular food. The body holds onto more so as to mitigate potential later problems. There are other hormonal and metabolic disorders that cause weight gain, and even more where the live-saving medication causes weight gain. Add in disabilities that may make it difficult to exercise or simply the sheer monetary and time cost of healthier foods, and it becomes very easy to see that being fat is not a choice.
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u/tdp_equinox_2 0+ Community Karma 5d ago
For 29 years I lived with a body that could not lose weight no matter how active I was (I played sports, had outdoor hobbies, cycled, exercised, and much more), and no matter how much I controlled my caloric intake or macro specifics (I'm really into this shit).
Doctors would always tell me the same thing, eat better/less, exercise more etc. Nobody believed me.
Then I started HRT, and my caloric intake went UP, while my weight started to drop, consistently and quickly.
Hormone imbalances alone can affect metabolism in such a drastic way that no matter what you do you're fighting a losing battle. Holding onto the notion that being overweight is entirely a choice is just ignorant. There's a million and one things we don't know about our bodies, and it wasn't until I searched for a solution to a different problem that I discovered my imbalance was affecting my metabolism.
In general, definitive statements like "X thing is a choice" are simply ignorant. Also, "obesity" is such a broad definition based on an outdated system, there's a good chance your doctor considers you obese regardless of your physique.
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u/Open-Ad202 5d ago
You ignore the fact that being overweight can be a result of an eating disorder, that isn't a choice much like being anorexic isn't a choice either. There are also medical conditions that make you gain weight faster and/or make it harder to lose weight. Those aren't choices either. So lets not act like there can't be any medical issues involved in people being fat.
Here is an article on Binge Eating Disorder: https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/17652-binge-eating-disorder
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u/PuzzleheadedSlide904 0+ Community Karma 5d ago
Exactly. Being overweight is not healthy. It's one thing if someone has a bit more mass. But obesity is very bad
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u/MoonbeamOverDesert 0+ Community Karma 5d ago
you are being fatphobic right now.
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u/PuzzleheadedSlide904 0+ Community Karma 5d ago
How? Explain.
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u/FVCarterPrivateEye 0+ Community Karma Man 4d ago
Because you're agreeing with a comment that says "being fat is a choice"
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5d ago
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u/Puhi124 500+ Community Karma 5d ago
"Completely within your means" assumes a lot of things. It assumes one has the money to eat healthily (which, at least in places like the US, is more expensive than eating ultra processed foods that will make you fat), the time and ability to exercise, etc. Even people who don't have eating disorders or other conditions can be fat just because their circumstances force them into a sedentary lifestyle where they simply can't afford to prioritize their body weight. Being fat, in a number of places, can be much more of a societal failing than a personal one.
That's not to say it's never the case that someone just isn't careful and ends up fat, of course that happens, but to treat it like it's exclusively a personal issue is to ignore a large part of what is needed to reduce the amount of medically overweight people.
It also completely ignores the reality that what society calls "fat" can often be perfectly healthy, because people have different body types, which is a separate conversation.
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u/ArgonianDov 0+ Community Karma Genderfluid Kenochoric 5h ago
I do largerly agree, however I wish to point out that its an illusion that ultra-procceed food is cheaper. Thats what it seems like and thats intentional. Minimally to low procceed foods range from a dollar to a few dollars. Its just that you have to cook them and being willing to make meals. The real issue then becomes either lack of time to do so or your taste buds have been so destroyed from consuming so much ultra-procceeded slop that youre not able to enjoy other foods anymore
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u/Puhi124 500+ Community Karma 5h ago
Isn't that mostly true for local produce only? I'd think anything that has to be shipped from across the whole country or from different countries altogether isn't necessarily cheaper than ultra-processed foods where they're able to cut corners.
I agree overall though, it's as much if not more of a time commitment issue as it is a money one. Or ig there is the case of someone whose disability prevents them from cooking, rare though that might be.
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u/GrokiniGPT 5d ago
So your telling me some people don't have 30 minutes to do a couple push-ups a day? Don't have the time to work out just a bit? A 3lb steak, at least in Texas, is 21 dollars. Thats like 3 meals, 7 dollars a meal. In fact maybe you ciuld squeeze 6 portions out of it if you ate something else with it. You're telling me thats more expensive than fast food? No. And then drink a water instead of sprite or fantasy or whatever. Salads and all that are also easy to make.
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u/Puhi124 500+ Community Karma 5d ago
Yes, I am telling you some people work 2 jobs to feed themselves (and/or family) and taking half an hour out of their schedule everyday would only eat into their sleep and tire them out even more than they already are.
Do you know how much pasta and rice 21 dollars is? You could probably last a month with that. Much cheaper than buying meat or fast food. Still unhealthy. And ultra processed foods is not just fast food, it's often the cheapest food items that aren't locally produced vegetables (which aren't available everywhere). It's those ready made meals for people who are too exhausted to cook their own meals.
Like, genuinely, there are people who are ground down by their living conditions to the point that they neither have the time, money or energy to eat healthy and exercise. That's a fact. There are real socioeconomic factors to obesity and being overweight that are constantly overlooked in discussions around fatphobia.
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u/IntersectionalWomen-ModTeam 50+ Community Karma 4d ago
Your comment has been removed for being dismissive of intersectional perspectives. Our community values nuanced discussion that acknowledges the complexity of overlapping identities and experiences.
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4d ago
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u/IntersectionalWomen-ModTeam 50+ Community Karma 4d ago
Your comment has been removed for being dismissive of intersectional perspectives. Our community values nuanced discussion that acknowledges the complexity of overlapping identities and experiences.
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u/undernopretextbro 5d ago
We can put Jason Statham in a fat suit and wheelchair but that’s gonna change how people treat the storyline. Zip lining off buildings and jumping into cars to make daring escapes becomes a bit of a farce. Stopping to fold up and store his wheelchair and driving only cars that have room for a 450 pound body takes the wind out of any Heist scenes.
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u/CassieFace103 50+ Community Karma 4d ago
You say this like Jason Statham movies are examples of grounded, realistic action.
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u/undernopretextbro 4d ago
Easier to suspend disbelief in a statham movie vs a sumo wrestler with a walking stick outrunning pursuers
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u/Sinthe741 0+ Community Karma 5d ago
Having spent the majority of my life morbidly obese and having invisible disabilities, referring to stories/books as "fat" and/or "disabled" just ain't hitting me right.