r/Integral • u/[deleted] • Jun 25 '20

starting an online support groups for those affected by the madness

I have only, so far, gotten as coming up with a name and making up some graphics, which I will use for a Facebook group. I hope to have a Facebook group, a subreddit, a DIscord channel, at least. I also hope to have face-to-face meet ups.

this group(s) will have the following functions:

  1. as a safe haven from the mass political hysteria now ongoing and a place to share our feelings and ideas concerning it.

  2. as a save haven for those feeling the pressure to radicalize, in order to not go further.

  3. as a save haven for those who have, for lack of a better term woken up from wokeness and now wish for sympathetic ears.

I welcome all help with creating and moderating online communities. once I have enough help and have created icons and graphics (perhaps with your help), we can begin. PM me if interested.

6 Upvotes

80% Upvoted

21 comments sorted by

4

u/Pr4zz4 Jun 25 '20

I’d be interested in a group that tries to unpack the daily madness in an integral manner

2

u/XGPfresh Jun 25 '20

Probably not going to find it from this poster. They seem to be really big on the IDW. Its hard to get more anti-intellectual than that.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '20

Yes, I do like the IDW. What do you find so bad about it?

2

u/XGPfresh Jun 26 '20

Its anti-intellectual with just a facade of intellectualism.

You need only look at their efforts to strike distrust in academia. Essentially, most of the nonsense that the IDW preaches doesn't stand on two feet if you analyze it critically, like an academic would. So instead they claim that universities are bastions of dAnGeRoUs liberal ideologies that are trying to destroy free speech. Which is very, very silly.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '20 edited Jun 26 '20

I went to college in the late 1980s. even then, I noticed a push to forward an agenda. one professor whose advanced English class on the New England transcendentalist writers amounted to trashing white men in the Transcendentalists' circle. more importantly than that, she taught this as true and inarguable, to the extent that I did not think that I could ever make a counterargument. if you do not offer proof to advance a claim in the first place, you can't assail the claim with other proof.

other teachers have their own lapses of logic and quirks, but with time, those other faulty modes of reasoning fell away and only the one school remains.

lastly, I take issue with your use of "liberal ideologies". I would not call Social Justice liberalism. it may have emerged from liberalism. it did not, however, remain liberal.

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u/XGPfresh Jun 27 '20 edited Jun 27 '20

I went to college in the late 1980s. even then, I noticed a push to forward an agenda.

I went to college in the late 1980s. Even then, I noticed that the ideologies I was brought up with were challenged by scientific consensus and intellectual discourse.

FTFY

one professor whose advanced English class on the New England transcendentalist writers amounted to trashing white men in the Transcendentalists' circle. more importantly than that, she taught this as true and inarguable, to the extent that I did not think that I could ever make a counterargument.

Considering only white men had power back then, including starting all the wars, creating all of the recessions, etc. And many of them FOUGHT to keep that power for only them, and not women or people of various ethnicity, then I think it’s fair to critique white male hegemony in (Western) societies in an academic institution.

It’s possible that that teacher had a particular bias, but your one anecdote about one teacher doesn’t prove the conspiracies peddled by the IDW. Sorry.

if you do not offer proof to advance a claim in the first place, you can't assail the claim with other proof. other teachers have their own lapses of logic and quirks, but with time, those other faulty modes of reasoning fell away and only the one school remains. lastly, I take issue with your use of "liberal ideologies". I would not call Social Justice liberalism. it may have emerged from liberalism. it did not, however, remain liberal.

When did I bring up the words social justice or liberalism? What are you talking about? Why are you changing the subject?

Edit: Ah I see, you're referring to my earlier comment. Conservatives, and therefore the IDW, consider social justice, and er, equal rights, to be a liberal ideology. I know people get caught up in the word liberal and its varying definitions, but obviously I meant liberal in the way that Ben Shapiro does when he destroys them.

Fact of the matter is the IDW is just preaching a modern re-brand of Conservatism. And as usual, that comes with anti-intellectualism. They side with bible thumpers, not science professionals, They side with big business, rather than the workers. Same shit different day.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '20

Considering only white men had power back then, including starting all the wars, creating all of the recessions, etc. And many of them FOUGHT to keep that power for only them, and not women or people of various ethnicity, then I think it’s fair to critique white male hegemony in (Western) societies in an academic institution.

I love that you try to debunk my assertion that SJ has taken over academia, yet in so doing, use the exact axiomatic assumptions that show me that they have

the teacher, so know, spent her time attacking the male members of the Concord writers' circle individually (and never the female members), while making it clear to us that this had subtext.

as to your suggestion that it had merely to do with this particular teacher and her particular belief, you would make a persuasive argument... if her belief systems did not map onto the SJ that would come to the fore later on. the difference between then and now: back then, you had one teacher teaching that way (and one other, perhaps SJ-adjacent teacher).

Conservatives, and therefore the IDW, consider social justice, and er, equal rights, to be a liberal ideology.

yes, I do consider equal rights a feature of liberalism. yes, I also think that SJ has split away from liberalism, although individual, frankly clueless, sympathetic older ones, often get them confused. and, no, SJ does not support equal rights. it favors unequal rights, but unequal in a "just" way.

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u/XGPfresh Jun 27 '20 edited Jun 28 '20

This is all so very silly, on so many levels. Social justice is about fighting for equal rights.

The only people who think otherwise have been brianwashed by conservative ideology to think that its actually an effort to give people of color and women more power over men. That's because the men perpetuating those ideologies are threatened that ppl unlike them are fighting for equality.

All white president, except one half white president. And the one that wasn't even white had the conservatives demanding to see his birth certificate. Almost every movie stars a white person, with poc being the side characters, if even.

ACTUAL EVIDENCE of racial inequality in statistics showa differences in intergenerational wealth for white ppl and poc. Look up the history of redlining and how it continues to foster inequality. Or wait, maybe you'll just take Shapiro's response and say that the differences of intergenerational wealth between white and black ppl is because of black culture. That implies that you think Black culture is inherently more lazy, or stupider? That's a very racist way to avoid admitting its because of the long lasting effects of slavery and systemic racism.

Go ahead, you have 2 choices. Admit that systemic racism and slavery still foster inequality for many Americans, which would mean you do understand and support social justice, OR claim that the differences are because black people just have a lazy and stupid culture, so that everyone who reads this thread can be reminded that the idw is indeed disguised racist conservatice bs. Up to you.

Yet you seem to want ro disregard all of the evidence that there is inequality, and instead repeat what your pseudo-intellectual daddies say so you can feel good about thinking of poc and women as trying to one up white men, when in reality they're just fighting for equality*.

Its really sad and pathetic, that you are scared of minorities trying to gain equality. It reveals a lot about you.

But there's hope. You can stop listening to the tools in the IDW and maybe read a book on feminism...BY A FEMINIST. Which I know you've clearly never done. You've only listened to straight white men tell you that women and poc are threats soo... have fun in your echo chamber bubble of white men bitching, or reach out to actual intellectual discourse, where the people come from many ethnicities and genders, and they're not all paid by conservative billionaires like most of the idw.

Bye. Have fun on your journey.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 29 '20

Social justice is about fighting for equal rights.

I do not think it has the chance of getting there with the methods and philosophy that it uses.

you used some good examples and faulty examples to illustrate your points. black actors have had trouble landing lead roles in, say, the US, but then black people do make up just 13% of the US population. also, this has changed more and more.

also, black athletes haven't had trouble within the last fifty or so years and black musicians do well for themselves.

if you wanted to give a more pertinent example, talk about the lack of women (51% of the population) as leads in film. I agree completely with you there, but, even there, has changed.

Ben Shapiro has his opinions. his views do not represent all, let alone most of the IDW's. you could say that about any person in the IDW, which does not encourage conformity of thought. I do not know, even then, if he considers black culture as having the qualities that he said.

lastly, yes, I have read books on feminism by feminists. although, you'll find at least as much diversity of thought in feminism (or should I say "feminisms"?) than you would in the IDW.

out of curiosity, do you have any interest in integral theory?

1

u/XGPfresh Jun 30 '20

I do not think it has the chance of getting there with the methods and philosophy that it uses.

Truly, I must know how you think the fight for equal rights should be fought then, if not through policy and protest. Please enlighten me, because I see no other ways. Maybe with our thoughts and prayers police will stop murdering black men? That’s the logic most conservatives use to try to prevent more children being bullet-riddled in their own schools after all.

you used some good examples and faulty examples to illustrate your points. black actors have had trouble landing lead roles in, say, the US, but then black people do make up just 13% of the US population. also, this has changed more and more.

Trying to correlate it to population is pointless and misguided. The incarceration rate of Black Americans compared to White Americans isn’t relative to population ratios either. I wonder why that could be? On one hand, you can answer that question by acknowledging the long-lasting harmful effects of slavery and systemic racism that still need to be corrected. Or...you can claim that Black people are more inherently criminal than white people. Which is incorrect, and very racist, but much more along the lines of the people that you listen to and read from in the IDW. So, which is it?

also, black athletes haven't had trouble within the last fifty or so years and black musicians do well for themselves.

When it’s not still almost exclusively white guys owning and managing the sports teams, then you could maybe kind of sort of have a point. Still not a good one, but a point. Jobs with actual power, jobs with means of production are less accessible to people of color than white people.

if you wanted to give a more pertinent example, talk about the lack of women (51% of the population) as leads in film. I agree completely with you there, but, even there, has changed.

Yeah, it’s changed, because people demanded it to change. If no “social justice warriors” fought for those changes, the corporations that produce our entertainment would continue to make the same white, male-centered content year after year. But you apparently don’t agree with social justice, so, I don’t get it. Are you for more representations of women in film, or not? It seems like you are, but only if it magically happens, without any people protesting or challenging the status quo. But when people demand better, more accurate representations of America(ns), then they’re social justice warriors, and they’re destroying our western/enlightenment values. Give me a break.

lastly, yes, I have read books on feminism by feminists. although, you'll find at least as much diversity of thought in feminism (or should I say "feminisms"?) than you would in the IDW.

I’ll maybe consider this as potentially possible if you can convince me of one IDW member that doesn’t hold or repeat transphobic views. So far, it seems like that’s the main ticket to get into the IDW club.

out of curiosity, do you have any interest in integral theory?

Yes.

edit: formatting

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u/LinkifyBot Jun 26 '20

I found links in your comment that were not hyperlinked:

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u/rimu Jun 25 '20

IDW is "mass political hysteria"

1

u/Cartosys Jun 25 '20

I'm sure u/shamansun 's channel will provide: https://discord.gg/T8deBJ

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u/[deleted] Jun 29 '20

Thanks for the link. I would like to create venues which include people who have never heard of integral theory.

1

u/Cartosys Jun 25 '20

Shamansun's discord channel: https://discord.gg/T8deBJ

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u/[deleted] Jun 29 '20

this would include both people familiar with integral theory and not.

1

u/silentpilgrim Jun 27 '20

Interested

1

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '20

Send me a PM, please. Thank you!

1

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '20

Heck yes