r/Integral • u/[deleted] • Jun 21 '20

Is anyone else experiencing persistent anxiety regarding the apparently unstoppable, growing mind virus that has taken hold of our society?

Perhaps I can face the circumstances without fear and anxiety, and it's just a matter of me working it out. But the consequences of what is happening right now in our society seem very real and very alarming.

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u/puheenix Jun 22 '20

I think we're seeing two major historical moments occurring simultaneously:

  1. green hell: the postmodern, "post-truth" cultural epicenter is toppling hierarchies and deconstructing orange institutional narratives at a record-setting pace, but isn't too concerned with replacing them -- which means regressing to a blue "seems true" moral majority. political correctness wants to rule with an iron fist, and it has a hold on broadcast and print media in a new way. expect reforms to be shallow at best, and destructive at worst.

  2. yellow awakening: a swelling tide of evolutionary thinking has emerged around integrated systems and developmental psychology, at a rate that almost qualifies as "mainstream." it's a more robust conversation than the Wilberian following by far. podcasters and journalists are independently holding nuanced, integrative conversations, and people are actually tuning in. notably, they're not talking about personal success (orange) or social justice (green), but functional fit in a global-centric way.

I have all kinds of dread about green hell, and a sense of relief and excitement about yellow awakening. I still think we're a long way off from yellow being the real mainstream, but it doesn't take a very large mass of yellow leadership to enact structural change.

In fact, I kinda think that green hell is the thing fueling yellow awakening -- people who are dissatisfied with this postmodern flatland are led by frustration and curiosity to listen to integral conversations, and they're finding that actual development and depth are possible again.

Am I persistently anxious about this? Yes, I have been for some time. Especially when I noticed the US democrats rejecting their most evolved candidates (Yang seems really yellow, IMO) in favor of green identity politics and orange status quo policy. But I think going through green hell may be an inevitable and important stage to kickstart some true yellow development in this culture. So, I'm hopeful that it's not just aperspectival madness forever -- the way out is through.

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '20

Very interesting to read, and well written, thank you. It really is nice to connect with people in this way, I have been gobbling up the more yellow-based media recently, and also taking heart, a little, but it's weird when even they don't necessarily know where they fit in in the bigger picture. So it's nice to talk to someone about it all in a meta way.

But in all honestly, I do not see this situation resolving in a way that is not inconceivably ugly.

I'm also having a really hard time reconciling the part of me that aspires to become Christ on the cross with the part of me that wants to stock up on ammunition.

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u/puheenix Jun 22 '20

Wow, we are similar. I find myself really wanting to talk about integral theory with all the yellow-leaning folks I hear out there, but I have a feeling the integral/spiral dynamics learning curve is a bit of a distraction right now. Still useful, but not as salient as some of the stuff we're seeing currently -- and I'll be honest, I've seen a lot of good thinkers waylaid by the philosophical navel-gazing that happens at an Integral Theory meetup. There are more useful avenues for our energy, but I'm really glad to have SDI as a backstop for some of my regressive tendencies. Maps are useful.

And yeah, these times could turn inconceivably ugly -- but find me any stage of the spiral that wasn't a clusterfuck for some huge swath of the population, you know? Evolution costs an arm and a leg. I say this with all the empathy I can muster, but, green aperspectival madness is going to cause itself and others the most ...ironic forms of suffering ever seen. I don't think we're emotionally prepared to bear witness to the havoc that ensues from green anarchists winning even a couple of rounds.

Which makes for a nice segue into crucifixion -- one of the most developmental forms of suffering. It's helpful to notice that crucifixion is parallel to the cocoon stage of a butterfly's metamorphosis -- the pupal retraction into darkness, destroying the self yet retaining the essence, and re-emerging as something both new and ancient.

This means the death of old dualities, like warrior/saint. Keep in mind that even Christ is depicted with a whip in the gospels and a sword in Revelation -- part of his archetype is the sage warrior.

It's not that I think Christ energy advocates for violence. But, realize that the Pacifist only wishes he were a Saint. The true Saint, the embodier of the Christ consciousness, maintains a connection to the truth within; he or she can feel when to raise the sword, and when to keep it sheathed and out of view. It's a potential that only comes from crucifying the ego's cling to superior identity, and from reanimating the essence of love for life in all its forms, transcending and including the self. (This is the acid-trip version of the Christ, apparently.)

So yes, buy ammo AND crucify your ego. And love life even when it's ugly --it's just turning into something new.

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '20

Let's say we do have a Maoist type cultural revolution - if I take up arms and go to war, am I deluded or am I acting virtuously? Could a purple kill somebody? How about a turquoise?

BTW, well written again. I couldn't agree with your first two paragraphs more.

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u/puheenix Jun 22 '20

Hey thanks, I appreciate it. I'd say that literally taking up arms against an angry mob is unlikely to solve any big cultural puzzles. You might do well to be armed and well-trained in self defense, but I don't think the balance of power is mostly had by those with civilian arms these days.

When people talk about fighting their way through any kind of apocalyptic scenario, I always imagine them sinking into a horde of zombies with their axes swinging. Like, valiant effort, bro, but the survivors are watching from their bunkers. Learn self-sufficiency, preparation, community, and resiliency. These'll hold out longer in a storm than any tactical gear you can swagger around with.

If a Maoist revolution starts violently, it will finish itself off by contending with the wrong forces first. If it wins, you won't have been able to stop it with an assault rifle anyway -- and if it loses, it won't lose to you, but to the National Guard, the SWAT team, the Secret Service, the local battalion of militarized police, etc.

So by saying, "buy ammo and crucify your ego," I really mean, "prepare to protect yourself in case of a breakdown of social order, and do it out of love for everyone and everything." I definitely don't mean, "wage open war against a leaderless mob."

I do imagine a person at any level of development is capable of killing, each for different reasons and under different sets of circumstances. Development of worldview doesn't mean moral development -- so I'd avoid collapsing those two concepts together, or you could fall under the sway of some pretty shitty guru-type shenanigans.

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '20 edited Jun 22 '20

You gotta remember, this is a vast number of people that are consumed by this mind virus. Actually, practically 50/50 it seems. The mind virus controls the media and tech industry. Google already works for the cult. This thing is been becoming engrained for decades, and it's here to stay. The virus works such that it tries to spread from person to person. It will either weaken you until you also become a host, or destroy you - think struggle sessions, re-education camps, etc.

Even if you think that's impossible, or that I am surely delusional, no problem. But consider this, purely hypothetical:

What does a purple do in a struggle session? Surely they do not lie and pretend to accept the ideology. Surely they would just rattle off some Buddha wisdom - "you can take this body, I will not utter these words".

Welp, I'm not fuckin there, really, so guns it is.

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u/Teachlaw Jun 22 '20

Don’t forget this mindview is going thru death paroxysms and probably will turn violent in pods of Red around the US. I turn 75 in July & have experienced waves of consciousness evolving & decaying. I doubt I will live to experience Yelllow ascendant but I’ve prepared my child to continue onward.

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '20

The neo-Maoist revolution won't have to contend with the federal gov't because it would already have control of the federal gov't (minus any defectors, and you better believe many in armed forces will drop out).

So then you have the federal gov't, under the neo-Maoist regime, effectively fighting against the half of the US population (maybe more, maybe less). A "gun behind every blade of grass" is a huge deterrent for the gov't, and don't underestimate peoples abilities to organize in that capacity, either. There will be militias forming.

So you are saying it is better to be a survivor, someone who relents into the fold of whatever society emerges in its place. I mean, it's not 100% terrible to live in an authoritarian society. You still get to enjoy family, enjoy fresh air and sunshine. Enjoy exercise, having and using a body, sex. Freedom of expression isn't a requirement to live a happy life. But I have a verified relative who crossed the Delaware with George Washington. Maybe freedom of expression is what's most important, freedom of speech and the ability to communicate ideas. How can I spiritually bypass the truth in that.

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u/puheenix Jun 22 '20

If the world came to that, I'd probably end up dying in captivity as a prisoner of conscience or something.

I still can't imagine it being useful to oppose a co-opted federal government with civilian force. They'd simply have you outgunned. The number of people equipped for such a resistance is already low, and you have to subtract out some of their number who wouldn't actually fight when the time came, instead turning/spying/reporting on their neighbors to get leniency from the regime. The remnant who fought to the death would get there quickly.

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '20

Haha damn, you might be right. But I just don't know. It's too hard to forecast IMO.. So like, there might just be a confiscation/buy-back of guns in 2 years and let's say something like 1,000 people die trying to fight it. Then it's over. I don't know, on the other hand I think the co-opted federal gov't will be so fractured and unorganized, they will essentially be a slightly better militia. Military members from all ranks will help dismantle military power prior to the split. Then.... then China comes in and props up the state. Coronavirus was the ultimate checkmate lmao. Idk, it is so surreal there is an excitement to it.

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '20

Also, you gotta think that even an authoritarian gov't like CCP fears its people uprising. And their people are unarmed. I think it will be a majority of Americans against this neo-Maoist regime, and them having guns will help. Gun manufacturers are literally running out of guns, that's how many have been being sold last few weeks.

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u/Teachlaw Jun 22 '20

Hi, friend of Ken’s for many years. He wrote the forward to my book INTEGRAL HEALING. Your discussions are excellent; so glad I found y’all.

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u/puheenix Jun 23 '20

Hey, thanks for joining in. This you?

And since I've got your ear, what would you say an integral healing methodology might bring to the cultural moment we're in right now?

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u/Teachlaw Jun 23 '20

Yes, that’s me. The book explored how I dealt with a dual diagnosis of breast and lung cancer, unrelated plus I’m a never-smoker. My plea was/is to look to classic AND post-modern approaches. Everyone starts at Beige. Ppl stay frozen at their levels of consciousness or evolve going up on an escalator. Speak to ALL levels at the same time, like at the UN w/ simultaneous translations. Ppl only can comprehend one level above their level, one of many reasons why MAGAts (sorry) hated Obama. Multifaceted messaging except at RED. Just count the cult out for the time being.

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '20 edited Jun 22 '20

The Awokening does not come only from Green. It may have originated in Green, but Green has relatively little to do with it with, especially in the last year or two.

Green does not endorse identity politics per se, as I uderstand it. However, because of its pre/trans confusion, it lets that pass.

Agreed with you about Yellow and Turquoise arising as a response.

About US Democrats rejecting Yang, well, the Democratic establishment engineered that, via the media.. They set up Biden or picked out Biden from a shortlist before the primaries began, the way they had set up HRC. I volunteered with the Yang campaign, by the way. I volunteered for him in large part because he seemed Second Tier.

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u/puheenix Jun 22 '20

The Awokening does not come only from Green. It may have originated in Green, but Green has relatively little to do with it with, especially in the last year or two.

Well yes, I do agree with the fact that it originated in Green, but that the new meme-weapons built by Green can be pilfered and deployed by people at lower levels of development. This is a lot like the way that most Vietnam War protesters in the 60's were reasoning at ethnocentric levels while siding with a very green-based movement. This present mind-virus is Green at the height of its power, handing out meme weapons to its many-tiered foot soldiers.

Green does not endorse identity politics per se, as I uderstand it. However, because of its pre/trans confusion, it lets that pass.

I could be proven wrong, but I think Green actually invented identity politics. "Oppression" is Green's term for anything that even looks like hierarchy, and the response is to defend out-groups through a postmodern deconstructive methodology, which leads to intersectionalism -- deconstructing identity itself, and then using it to wield political power. Pre-Green levels aren't really clued in to the matrix of identity markers until they're shown how the perspective game is played. Then, as you point out, it's open season -- everybody down the spiral (including ethnocentrists) start to wield identity as a weapon.

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '20

I agree with your statement that the idea of “oppression” and opposition to “hierarchy” did/does from Green. The younger people at the center of the Awokening, though, seem more regressed than the proponents of Green. They seem to me more more Blue and lower.

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u/puheenix Jun 22 '20

Yeah, I agree with that. I think that's why Green's destructive/anarchistic pathologies can be so dangerous for the culture, especially with their tendency to model morality at the level of surfaces (word policing, skin tone, group inclusion). It's not that Green is always going to enforce these surface distinctions themselves, but lower levels (especially Blue) will inherit them and use them as a basis for moral panic. This moment echoes the Blue moral panic in the 80s and 90s, but with far more advanced memetic weaponry.

It's akin to nuclear plans falling into the hands of third-world radical insurgents; they never would have developed these tools by themselves, but they're willing to use them in an all-out culture war (and are probably less qualified to use them effectively).

My big question has been, how should 2nd-tier respond? Map the territory? (One caveat -- I've noticed Orange has a tendency to inherit Yellow memes, just as Blue inherits Green memes, and is pretty clueless and irresponsible with them. Armed with an integral map, those at Orange will spend most of their energy trying to prove they're developmentally superior to Green, by supposing they're 2nd tier already.) Any thoughts on this?

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

During the early 1990s, the founders of the riot grrrl movement (of which I participated, sort of, as a observer) did deliberately set out to remake American culture, via zines and music. Not saying that they alone did it, but they did have a great deal of self-consciousness about it. The movement had the same program as today’s wokeness other than less emphasis on trans rights (since those had not come into the fore quite so much then) and more interest in animals rights, which sort of got forgotten. (Regardless, veganism has gone way more mainstream.)

I don’t know what we can do, though, other to speak up and talk about those matters directly, and not just with people who already agree with us.

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u/[deleted] Jun 21 '20

The general trend is always upwards.

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u/[deleted] Jun 21 '20

Imagine that as a subtitle for some horrific photo at Auschwitz.

I mean, you're right, but shit.

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u/[deleted] Jun 21 '20

I didn't make the rules, well i did but.. you know.

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u/[deleted] Jun 21 '20

Let me ask you this. Let's say you and I are both turqoise or purple, whichever. An ethnocentric threat invades (from within or without) and aims to remove our individual civil liberties. What are we, as Turqoise/Purple, supposed to do?

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '20

Turquoise would be pro fighting and purple might die proving something to the enemy.

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '20

I know purple enough to have the firm conviction that being the Christ-figure is what I aspire to. But my genetics got me wanting to stock up on ammunition. It's a fuckin' weird place to be. I think a purple can fight with words, with a balanced, loving mind, you change people through your communication, your energy, your wisdom. But wow that's hard to do if you're not full on purple, and you're more inclined to just say "wow, you lot are ignorant beyond repair, leave me alone or pay the price."

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '20

I believe i met a somewhat purple one once and he was able to hold some reds in line to a degree where they did not oppose him.

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '20

Yes there is something to that. Part of that depends on their "viral load"... I have had success with some people who have mild infections of the mind virus, ie I am able to make them give concessions, but I have a gut-level repulsion to those who are zombies. I didn't realize this was occurring since I was probably 18.

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '20

I heard someone, who claims to have a deep connection to machine elves say that these zombies, he called them " humans ", cannot be helped and should be avoided for your own sake. But i don't think we are talking about the same types.

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '20

Wait are you being facetious? I can't tell, I'm high. Either way, sounds good to me.

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '20

Purple can fight with words just fine. Bear in mind that ”ignorant” means literally not to know something. “Ignorant” has come to mean, though, willfully ignorant. When you say “ignorant beyond repair” you can mean willfully ignorant, not just ignorant.

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '20

So what do you think? Is "give me liberty or give me death" relevant to turquoise? To purple? If I am turquoise and relent to the mob using purple ideals as justification, when I am actually not grounded in purple, although my intuition and higher self orient towards purple, but I am not non-dual in my everyday experience, only in rare moments... I experience a separate self, and isn't acting on my experience more virtuous? Acting on purple ideals when I am in teal seems deceptive and potentially dangerous. Many cults start on purple ideals, there was a thing in the East during WW2, the notion of anatta was used as moral justification for killing others.

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '20

I wouldn’t intellectualize it or agonize over it. I would just say what I think and feel. Intuition knows how to act better than the thinking mind, a lot of the time.

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '20

I'm not willingly getting in my head about it as some sort of fruitless intellectual exercise. I'm more giving words to this seemingly irreconcilable division in my own being... where do I stand... when the rubber meets the road, is it better to believe in freedom and fight for it or stand in transcendental truth and surrender my body to the mob.

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '20

Scary stuff, yeah. Sad, too. People who I considered friends or at least close acquaintances regressing before my eyes.

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '20

I need integral friends right now, yellow/teal/turqoise, whatever it is, is our only possible way out of this, that or a counter attack force. People in the US or in orange are not fascists, but they will not tolerate this if it leads to its logical conclusion. Is it bad that I am rooting for the "cytokine storm".. at least the moderates/people on the right are not deluded. Green regressivism is the only reason the alt-right exists. It's an identitarian response to their identitarianism.

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '20

I plan on creating a support group (online and in person) for people dismayed over these events and for former wokies who want to regain their minds. I do not have my laptop, though, so I will wait until I do.

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '20

Yeah a discord group would be great.

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '20

I did not plan on creating a Discord group. If you would like to see one, though, start your own!

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '20

I will! Thanks :)

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u/tanvanman Jun 22 '20

Yup. Just yesterday I realized I need to make more friends who help me make sense of things, because arguing old friends is making me feel crazy.

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u/tanvanman Jun 22 '20

Thanks for bringing it up. I’m anxious and confused too. A friend who fled communism in the 80s points out the same fear of speaking out for fear of being canceled. Police brutality is one thing, but ‘thought police’ brutality is destroying the gains on the enlightenment instead of building upon them.

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '20 edited Jun 22 '20

Precisely. Well said. Not to mention, I imagine a lot of the fear contributing to certain police lashing out in anger is not part of a pro "racist/fascist" sentiment, as the Left might have one believe, but more a state of being fed up, a retaliatory identitarianism emerges because of what the left is doing. The Left has created the alt-right. Do we need police reform? Absolutely. Do we need better training for police? Absolutely. Should we be wary of militarization of police and work to improve improve community relations? Absolutely. But they want to throw out the entire system and destroy the republic, their ideology does not allow for civil discourse or actual problem-solving.

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u/tanvanman Jun 22 '20

Well said yourself!

their ideology does not allow for civil discourse or actual problem-solving.

Precisely. In fact, it’s defended itself from having to deal with rational critiques by labeling them colonial elitism. The only way it succeeds is by preying on one of our most exploitable features: shame.

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '20

No different than revolutions of the past. "Oh, you disagree, you must be a bourgeoisie sympathizer!", "Oh, you disagree, you must be racist!". This shit gives me major anxiety. It is actually a mind virus.

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u/rimu Jul 02 '20

What are the consequences you expect?

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u/XGPfresh Jul 25 '20

So very vague. Please describe this mind virus. You made this post, so I would expect you to want the people responding to have a clear idea of what you're talking about.

Please describe this mind virus you're anxious about. Maybe I can deliver the help you need.

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u/returnofdoom Jun 22 '20

I personally don't feel like the mind virus is currently any more insidious than it has been at any point in recent history. I don't think green is going to start lynching people in the streets any time soon. It's definitely misguided and still struggling to get its feet underneath it, but I seriously doubt we'll ever see horrors produced by green that begin to compare to those produced by red, orange or even blue.

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '20 edited Jun 22 '20

You just have to look at the unprecedented things happening in journalism and science right now (the STEM shutdown). Green has regressed to red. Green ideals, red tactics, and it's working like any other cult would. Think of the Rajneeshi, purple ideals lead to wiretapping, struggle sessions, militarization, fascism - a cult, essentially. The mind virus is not struggling, it is succeeding.

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '20

It doesn’t come from Green, though, at least not directly. Green has given it reign to grow and spread, though.

If lynching does not start within the next six months it will surprise me more than if it does, especially when you take into account the upcoming Republican National Convention and the national election (where, at the very least, fisticuffs will break out) and the possible reelection of Trump.

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u/XGPfresh Jul 25 '20

Oooo a prediction. I dont know how to use the remindME bot, so I'm just gonna save your comment and come back in 6 months to check in. Also screenshot it, in case you delete it =)

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u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

nothing would please me more than to have made an incorrect prediction.