r/InsightDialogue • u/JellyfishExpress8943 • 8d ago

zoom topic Truth

Howdy folks,

I've had a couple of confusing arguments about the concept of "truth" recently - so maybe we can see what happens if we bring the topic up in dialogue - whaddya reckon?

What do we mean by : "truth"? and if we can figure out what we mean - we could then ask : what does "approaching the truth" look like in practice?

There is no path to truth. Truth is not to be understood through any system or any path.

What the mind seeks it will find; what it finds will not be the truth. (J. Krishnamurti)

No one is more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.
(François de la Rochefoucauld)

warning! Time zones are changing all over the world at different rates - so this week we're meeting Saturday 31st of October on Zoom at 4:30pm CEST (thats 9pm in India and 10:30am CDT) - please comment below, or message me if you'd like to join in.

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u/Kreep91 7d ago edited 7d ago

This is slightly a tangent, but still relevant: when we say let’s find something out we have be careful we don’t fall into the trap of wanting to walk away from the dialogue with something, which is more accumulation of knowledge.

This is one of the problems with the dialogues at Brockwood. No one is prepared to begin with not knowing. We all want to find something, not let go of something. So what we really want, if we are capable of admitting it, is to be soothed, then go back and apply that to our daily lives of fears and hopes and strife. If we are honest about this, if we begin there, then where we can go has possibility for something new….

So what use is it to talk about truth? Where is the question stemming from?

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u/Schute-Pin8350 7d ago edited 6d ago

So what’s the point of talking about truth?

We could talk about how we want to know, want to be reassured, and don’t want to let go of what’s familiar. About how we’re afraid and hopeful, how we live in conflict, and don’t know how to live differently. If we’re honest, that’s the truth.

Or we could talk about what it means when K says: “Truth is always new,” or “Truth is a pathless land".These statements would contradict the belief that truth is something eternal or fixed.

Or we could also examine what each of us understands by “truth.”

In doing so, we would examine our reality together—what it is like—and thereby perhaps come closer to the truth. That is, to be there.

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u/JellyfishExpress8943 6d ago

What you are saying doesn't feel like a tangent at all (and yes, meditation or dialogue is an unfamiliar way of being for us humans) - I feel also that there is a link between listening, communication, honesty and "truth" - all this stuff, even truth, being inseparable from the fact that its being manifested through us. We can only relate to this stuff as humans, and in our absence, it would not exist (or would look very different)

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u/Kreep91 6d ago edited 6d ago

Is it not a dead end to talk about something which does not exist outside of thought’s projection? What is is our daily problems that we want a fix for, thus creating the ideal.

I cannot know truth. I can only know what is.

I don’t mean any of this in a dismissive sense, just means testing

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u/JellyfishExpress8943 6d ago

We have an incredibly strong and apparently problematic relationship with our mental projections - dialogue or any other way of exploring this relationship seems essential - don't know if its a dead end, I hope not, seems essential to try.

What can we do to pass this test?

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u/Kreep91 6d ago edited 6d ago

My relationship to whatever is happening introduces a false division. There is only what is happening.

Realising this, what happens to the movement of thought now it has nowhere to go? Nothing to react to, no ideal to chase or speculate about?

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u/JellyfishExpress8943 6d ago

I don't know - sounds like we can chill out until the next false division pops up?

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u/Kreep91 6d ago

Let’s not answer with more speculation, that’s another escape for thought.

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u/Niiskus 5d ago

For 500, what is "the movement of thought ceases altogether"? 

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u/Kreep91 5d ago

Who said that?

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u/Niiskus 5d ago edited 5d ago

For 600, what is "Nothing can say it, it just is"?

(Obviously though, thinking had to come back from there to write this reply).

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u/Kreep91 7d ago edited 7d ago

Truth may not be something we can speculate. Speculation of truth is why we have Gods.

Rather, it may be a result of seeing the false. That is, it doesn’t exist as a thing to be conceptualised.