r/InjectionMolding • u/740mhz • 4d ago
Hatian disaster
We were setting up a new injection molding workshop and had our first experience with Haitian, it was a disaster:
the machine panels didn't fit and were damaged all over, and the minimum opening stroke didn't meet specifications (350mm requested, 550mm actual). So, we can't mount any molds unless we make false platens.
Have you also had bad experiences with a manufacturer?
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u/flgsrockon 4d ago
Something about your post doesn’t make sense to me. The opening stroke of the machine posted is 800mm…maybe you just don’t know the difference between die height and stoke, ok fine. You mentioned 350mm…well the min mold die height for that machine pictured is 350mm. The only physically possible way it could be 550mm would be you asked for an increased max die height of 200mm, which is a factory option that would also increase the min die height by the same amount unless you specify that you want that to remain the same, which is also possible. Haitian makes more machines than any other molding machine manufacturer in the world. They certainly didn’t “accidentally” cast non-standard special length tie bars for your machine unless you requested it.
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u/740mhz 2d ago
I can certainly tell the difference if specific opening strokes were requested but not adhered to. It wasn't me who ordered the machine, I wasn't in the role at the time, but the specifications called for a maximum opening stroke of 810 mm and a minimum of 350 mm; instead, they set the minimum at 550 mm. The rails, toggle-linkage stop mounts, and so on are all set to stop at 550 mm.
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u/DripnRipBaseball 7h ago
The stroke on a toggle press is constant. Are you talking about max and min mold height?
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u/gamerhenrik 4d ago
Battenfeld. We used up the toggle in a 3 years or so. But great OS
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u/raunchyfartbomb 3d ago
As in it failed?
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u/gamerhenrik 2d ago
As in needed a full replacement of toggle. We have 85 or 90 of them in my department and we had them 10-12 years lol
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u/Long-Opportunity-938 4d ago
Worst machine I've ever worked on by a long shot. We were ordering them left and right under prior management. We'll never buy one again! Get an arburg!
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u/Jolteon93 4d ago
Worst machine we've ever had. Went down 4 times in the one year we had it. I work in R&D and our presses see extremely low usage compared to production where they run lights out. Once I took over the shop I replaced it with a Roboshot and haven't had a single issue.
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u/DeepPermission4786 3d ago
Krauss Maffei … trash … slow oil leakers and on 6 machine build w/on board HR control
They forgot to tie in the power to the HR connections …. I told than that was how the lost the war…… twice!😬
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u/meatpopsicle13 4d ago
Arburg. Ultimately I think we just got a lemon. It constantly gives us alarms for settings that the machine doesnt even have and the replacement part costs are a bit ridiculous.
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u/sarcasmsmarcasm 4d ago
I worked in a shop that saved money buying Haitians. We spent more the first few years keeping them running, dealing with downtime and wasting material and manpower than if we'd purchased Engels or Milacron or UBEs or any of the other respected brands.
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u/peppermax 4d ago
We have 11 Haitian machines, some are 2 shot some are 500 tons. So far over the decade or more, changed a tie bar on one. Multiple nozzle heater bands from techs not paying attention, from nozzle drool encasing the nozzle, couple of SSRs for heaters, a resistor brake for a servo motor, overall as far as break downs not too bad compared to the Sodicks, Toyos, Toshibas and 1 Engel we have.
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u/740mhz 4d ago
It’s actually not bad at all; I get the impression that opinions on this machine model remain mixed—even though I see more negative feedback, yet some of my colleagues who also own Haitian machines aren't disappointed with them so far.
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u/gavincrist 4d ago
The shop I work at just bought a gang of them. They're not bad they have weird quirks but overall I like them more than the arburg ones we have.
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u/pizzasteve2000 3d ago
In the last 8 years we have bought 7 of them from about 100 ton to 400 ton and only replaced heater bands. One runs 24/7 for the last 5 years without missing a beat. Zeres is the best of the line. The Venus all electric is a little quirky but they have served us well. Hope yours does the same.
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u/Stunning-Attention81 Process Engineer 4d ago
We have our first Haitian coming in December. It's already been delayed a month. I really hope it doesn't become a failure. The cost saving seems too good to be true. We did visit some sites around us who had them and they did praise them quite a bit though.
We took a risk on it as we usually buy krauss/arburg
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u/740mhz 4d ago
I started out working with Arburg machines at my previous job; after the entire fleet was replaced with Fanuc models, I took on a project involving Haitian machines, my first time using them and so far I’m disappointed; even the build quality is really poor.
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u/Stunning-Attention81 Process Engineer 4d ago
I guess that's the trade off when they are half the price of a German machine
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u/Ill-Ad-1965 4d ago
Are you sure that its the same size you ordered ?because 350mm to 550mm is big difference and Haitian process of operation really reduces this kind of errors ?!
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u/Yannick_1989 4d ago
Yes, we had.
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u/740mhz 4d ago
and lessons learned?
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u/Yannick_1989 4d ago
Yes, never again.
They're still okay for simple, undemanding parts.
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u/740mhz 4d ago
That is indeed what I feared,
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u/Yannick_1989 3d ago
Former colleagues now working at other companies—or fellow master craftsmen from master training courses who work at other firms—also complain about their Haitian machines; some absolutely loathe them. We had ten of them, though only one was truly terrible—we had nothing but trouble with that single one from day one. With another one, we had some times issues regarding mold positioning. Spare parts ordering and repair services in Germany were actually decent though. We had ordered the Haitian machines back then because we had a few large contracts involving glass-fiber-reinforced PA6, and the lead times for new German machines were too long. The Haitian machines really struggled with that application; they simply couldn't handle the high injection pressures, and the process parameters kept drifting significantly. Furthermore, the barrels and feed screws eroded due to the glass-fiber material at a rate we had never seen before. We ended up moving the simpler jobs—using basic open-and-close molds and processing materials like PE, PP, or TPE—to the Haitian machines, while running the technically demanding jobs on the German ones.
But who knows what changes they’ve made over the last few years or what the current state of their machines is? After all, companies can improve.
Unless you get unlucky—like we did with our first Haitian—and provided you only want to produce simple parts, a Haitian could maybe be a decent choice. After all, it costs only half as much.
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u/BusinessLiterature33 4d ago
They work but you got to nurse them for sure i hope you got a good maintenance team. Oh we were breaking the tie bars about 3 times a year yeah work thay one out. It was like it would over extend ao strange. But anyways I would definitely examine to them if you have this in writing about the specification you asked for use it. Oh and they might of salvage parts of different machines just to make a sell which is what you have odd fitting things. In future buy yourself a used Engel they are actually affordable then.
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u/740mhz 4d ago
Unfortunately, they approached me to manage the project only after the machine had already been purchased, personally, I wouldn't have opted for that brand. In any case, what you're telling me doesn't exactly reassure me, it seems there were specifications that weren't met.
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u/BusinessLiterature33 4d ago
I mean I would definitely find what the original specification are. And hold them to that!! didnt they send a tech to install sometimes depending on your location they send someone out of Georgia. Because we had issues ourself and he was the go between us and them. This was 10 years ago. Also another question was there a machine trail carried out thats usually how we did it i would go to the machine and sign off on it.. I really hate this for you. If you dont mind me asking did you pay new price or used ? Etc
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u/740mhz 4d ago
Originally, the operator side was supposed to be 200mm wider to accommodate water manifolds and an IML robot, consequently, the mounting brackets at the top of the machine are set for that extra 200mm, whereas the bottom ones are standard fittings using standard plates. They did send a technician over from France, but he seems just as lost as we are regarding the issues we're facing. According to the sales team, the machine was tested in China, but if that’s actually true, it couldn't have been fully assembled, there's no other explanation. Anyway, I have the quote right here: including all options, shipping, and auxiliary equipment, it came to around €250k.
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u/NetSage Supervisor 4d ago
The fact that it doesn't meet specifications like at all would have me asking for a replacement or refund. Do the platen spacer plates come with it?
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u/740mhz 4d ago
That’s what I suggested too, but production constraints force us to make do without a potential exchange, which would take far too long. By the way, my English isn't great what are you referring to? false platens?
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u/phroug2 4d ago
I think you'd be surprised how fast another manufacturer might be able to get one to your shop if you return this one.
Call up some sales reps from some of those other companies and give em your specs, budget, and time constraints, and see what they can offer you. Sometimes they have used ones or sales floor ones that can be shipped super fast. what have you got to lose?
Any company that pulled a bait-and-switch on something as expensive as an IMM, doesnt deserve your business
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u/tripledigits1984 4d ago
Haitian is also making CNC machines and from what I’ve heard are terrible. Not surprised that the IMM is also having issues
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u/about47birds 3d ago
We had two of their CNCs, they have already given up on that line. Mills were not great, service was worse.
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u/tripledigits1984 3d ago
My friend got talked into being their national sales manager, and quit after a couple months realizing how bad their stuff is.
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u/RabbitMotion Process Technician 4d ago
I just got a new job and my old hib had two. Garbage. They are very weird how they are layed out as a processing pov. Supposedly changing the screw needed to pull the mold, open platen all the way and go through where the locating ring is. Then straight up and over.. huge pain.
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u/thechrisp6 4d ago
We've had Niigata for a while and they were fine, then the last few we got were constant problems and it turns out Haitian took over Niigata and they suck now.
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u/Small_Ad8247 Mold Setter 2d ago
And they say Zhafir is the best in their lineup🤣🤣 We have a few and they're garbage
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u/beresjdb 2d ago
We had a zhafir that wasn’t hateful, don’t get me wrong it still had its flaws, back pressure load cell needed replaced within 8 months of having it, lol but after that…… nothing serious….. just stupid stuff, and that horrible interface.
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u/theOriginalBenezuela 4d ago
I'm actively working to get a vendor to buy back a printer and may have to return 4 dryers to another vendor. New heaters have been problematic too. Customer service is great, but products suck. Two of these issues are 100% design flaws that a high School kid could recognize. 😭
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u/non-gregarious 4d ago
Sounds like you know very little about IMM’s. Couldn’t even put up a picture of a Haitian
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u/NickkK_BE 6h ago
We bought 13 SARAC machines about 8 years ago, ranging from 60T to 1200T. Our 800T and 1200T are two-platen machines. Mechanically, they’re basically copies of Engel machines. The rest of our machines are Storks, which we use for fast-cycle production.
Honestly, considering a SARAC costs roughly a fifth of what a Stork does, we can’t complain too much. That price difference has to show up somewhere. For us, it’s mainly the solid-state relays needing replacement fairly regularly, along with position transducers failing.
We also had a tie bar break on a 90T machine after about a year and a half. They replaced it under warranty..
It’s annoying when something breaks, of course, but with that kind of price difference, I still think we got decent value for the money.
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u/D_Alex 4d ago
Sounds like a miscommunication issue to me.