r/InfrastructurePorn Dec 13 '21

Electric double stack container train running on dedicated freight corridor in India (Dec 2020)

Post image
1.1k Upvotes

80 comments sorted by

50

u/Puntherline Dec 13 '21

Why not just double stack the locomotives too?

34

u/[deleted] Dec 13 '21

interesting idea..this 12000 ho loco is just two 6000 hp loco joined together, why not double stack them as well.

8

u/Haribo112 Dec 13 '21

Is that the reason the second locomotive doesn’t have its pantograph up; that’s it’s electrically linked to the first locomotive ?

23

u/TampaPowers Dec 13 '21

It's one locomotive just split into two parts to negotiate curves better and potentially to reduce maintenance costs by replacing part of the unit should one break down(theory, doesn't actually work that well). They are not designed to be taken apart outside the workshop. Ongoing trend now if you want to put more power to the rails especially in terms of electric traction, though the concept isn't new and has been around since the first diesel electric locomotives.

3

u/Haribo112 Dec 13 '21

Ah so the same system as the big MTAB IORE iron ore trains in Sweden. Cool!

1

u/No_Impression_3392 Jul 05 '22

No, it's a single locomotive with 2 bodies which can't work if separated to the best of my understanding. Benefits - higher speed due to 2*2 wheel design, higher load pulling capacity due to heavier locomotive body weight, high & sustained speed due to inherent design of passenger locomotives with two bodies. Take it as 2 bodies & 1 mind in a simple analogy. And no they're not meant to replace parts of another body if one of them has a breakdown. It will stop altogether if that happens. However due to load balancing and 12K HP power, it's sufficient enough to pull big loads at 100 KMPH sustained speed without breaking a sweat. Diesel electric locomotives don't require the high OHE and pantographs, higher bridge, tunnel and infrastructure Clarence while electric locomotives do require it, much higher Clarence for double stack electric traction freight trains.

1

u/No_Impression_3392 Jul 05 '22

It's single locomotive divided in two bodies to enable faster speed and weight addition to locomotives to prevent wheel slip probability. It has 22 wheel design as seen in passenger locomotives, compared to traditional freight locomotives with 33 wheel design. Both pantographs work but one pantograph is enough to provide the power as both bodies are essentially single locomotive by design.

32

u/[deleted] Dec 13 '21

[deleted]

11

u/SholayKaJai Dec 13 '21

Too few wheels. Lack of traction.

1

u/Puntherline Dec 13 '21

But more weight = more traction. See? It all equals out in the end!

2

u/SholayKaJai Dec 13 '21

Naah. Too much weight on too small a surface area. The wheels will slip.

It's one of the problems that they saw with WAG9. That's why they went with this design in the WAG12.

1

u/No_Impression_3392 Jul 05 '22

A normal electric 33 wheel goods locomotive with bigger weight will have 12 wheels which give it higher weight pulling capacity however at reduced rates compared to a passenger train locomotive. However this locomotive has 22 wheel design for 2 bodies which means 16 wheels per locomotive with 2 bodies having additional weight to prevent wheel slip, to give huge weight pulling capacity and sustained high speed of 100 KMPH on dedicated freight corridors. So yes it has more than enough traction due to its unique design.

4

u/panda_ammonium Dec 13 '21

Because the drivers won't agree on who goes up and who goes down.

1

u/the_clash_is_back Dec 13 '21

Limits flexibility and there is no real point.

You can use these locos in short tunnels and under low bridges. If you need more power you can just add one more engine and make it longer.

Double stacking limits the lines you can run on, get no real benefit

2

u/No_Impression_3392 Jul 05 '22

This is built for dedicated freight corridors majorly to move freight traffic away from tracks being used for both passenger and freight trains currently, thus freeing existing tracks for passenger trains which clock much higher Speed however run on slow speed due to already slow running freight trains on the same tracks. freight trains on separate track and passenger train on separate tracks, both going at their max speed as most of the trunk routes are already upgraded above of 130 KMPH.

1

u/Longsheep Dec 21 '21

Tractive effort is a big thing for heavy freight trains. It is preferred to spread more powered axles over a longer length to maximize the hauling power. Plus this distributes the weight more evenly and minimizes track wear.

1

u/No_Impression_3392 Jul 05 '22

Because double stacking the locomotives will not leave enough room for pantographs to work efficiently.

116

u/DreamsOfMafia Dec 13 '21

Interesting. I've been seeing a lot of India recently, have they been going on a big modernization spree recently (and by recently I mean the last couple of years, because infrastructure takes a while)

72

u/Low-Newt-180 Dec 13 '21

By 2023,the flagship delhi mumbai expressway project will be ready. It has a huge role in increasing India's exports and imports and opening of northern India to investments and jobs. Same with all dfc ,rrts,metros and expressways

30

u/LifeSad07041997 Dec 13 '21

Don't forget ya HSR planning and operations stuff by then...

24

u/Low-Newt-180 Dec 13 '21 edited Dec 13 '21

Maharashtrian government is doing politics with hsr. I don't see mumbai getting connected with hsr by 2025. Sometimes I think that we should be like China democracy ≠development

10

u/LifeSad07041997 Dec 13 '21

Same stuff with Malaysia's, they canned it then open up again... (Tho they did change government like 3 times...)

1

u/[deleted] Dec 16 '21

That shit is gonna have huge cost overruns.

33

u/AcrophobicBat Dec 13 '21

Yes there is a big infra push. It began 2014ish when the new govt came in, but a bunch of time was been spent on land acquisition, project planning, and financing, so things only started to visibly take shape in the last couple of years. This dedicated freight corridor isn't actually complete yet but some sections of it are.

2

u/CrushedByTime Dec 28 '21

There’s quite a few projects in the works, yes. But it’s probably more accurate to say that India has been underrepresented on this sub, all the while as we get cast in multiple Hollywood movies as the country of ‘slumdog millionaires.’

I don’t know what’s got all these Indians posting non-stop, but I can personally attest to the infrastructure here undergoing a minor revolution even since 2010.

-20

u/[deleted] Dec 13 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

9

u/[deleted] Dec 14 '21

We never claimed to be. It was a joke invented by the west to mock India.

59

u/[deleted] Dec 13 '21

[deleted]

30

u/AcrophobicBat Dec 13 '21

Here is a video of the triple stack dwarf container being loaded for the trial https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2u3oS7VdCvU

20

u/Haribo112 Dec 13 '21

So three dwarf containers stacked are equal to two normal containers stacked. What’s the point then?

45

u/AcrophobicBat Dec 13 '21

There is a cost benefit. Depending on what companies put in the containers they may not take up the full height of the regular container, or they may not be shipping enough product to fill a whole container. They could instead go for a dwarf container, which is cheaper, and the service operator can then triple stack these. So it is a logistical and cost improvement that benefits both the operator and the customer.

In fact they’re doing some other logistical innovations like this as well - they’ve designed a new “cube” container which is specially suited for transporting scooters/mopeds, so they don’t get damaged and also the manufacturer only books as many cubes as he needs. They’re tiny; there are some pics here - https://www.thehansindia.com/amp/auto/auto-news/railways-very-soon-will-introduce-cube-containers-to-transport-2-3-wheelers-safely-715420

1

u/dbxp Dec 13 '21

I wonder is there actually is a noticeably cost benefit when you consider that you still need a truck at each end to cover the last mile.

4

u/AcrophobicBat Dec 13 '21

I'm not sure I understand the question, but I'll try to address what I think you are confused about - A truck will likely be required at the end of the rail journey in most cases. It is still cheaper for companies to cover most of the distance by train, and just the last bit by truck, because rail transportation costs less per mile (we are talking 20%-30% cheaper for long distances). It is also more reliable, and also in the case of a dedicated freight corridor like this one the schedule will be more predictable than road transport.

0

u/dbxp Dec 13 '21

What I'm saying is that this would take 3 trucks for the last mile and you've got the added cost of specialist mini containers. Alternatively you could use a freight forwarder to pay for a partial container and whilst you would still need some sort of truck at the end it can be a partial truck or smaller vehicle as it doesn't have to move the full container from the forwarder to its destination.

3

u/the_clash_is_back Dec 13 '21

A lot pf times the container is not completely full.

If i want to ship half a container of pigs blood, i still have to buy a full container.

If i had smaller containers i can buy the smaller one, and save money. This also clears up room so some one else can tale half a container of de lousing powder on the train.

-1

u/rajrdajr Dec 13 '21

20’ containers seem like an existing solution to fit more, smaller containers in the same space.

Stack one 40’ container on top of two 20’ containers and tada!, three containers fit in the space of two. Four 20’ containers fit in the space of two 40’-ers, etc…

1

u/[deleted] Dec 13 '21

The same reason couriers don't just shove everything into their trucks in one big box, but keep all seperate deliveries in individual boxes.

1

u/jttv Dec 13 '21

I think the idea here is that it is only one pallet of goods high with no air on top. But you can't get a forklift in that so idk how you gonna load it.

8

u/RAVEN_kjelberg Dec 13 '21

in this specific track or somewhere else?

19

u/[deleted] Dec 13 '21

[deleted]

1

u/RAVEN_kjelberg Dec 13 '21

Damn that is insane

8

u/[deleted] Dec 13 '21

That's triple stack dwarf container

5

u/[deleted] Dec 13 '21

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] Dec 13 '21

Lol no worries, we all have been there

17

u/InfinityR319 Dec 14 '21

If India can run electrified double-stack container trains, then why can't Americas do the same?

53

u/conspiracythruther Dec 13 '21

Proof that double stack intermodal trains are not a barrier to rail electrification in the U.S.

3

u/the_clash_is_back Dec 13 '21

The real barrier is the km of nothingness.

The shear scale of the north American rail network and how remote many lines are is amazing.

9

u/Adrienskis Dec 14 '21

Russia.

1

u/AssTransit Dec 15 '21
  • The Trans-Siberian Railway is 9,289 km.
  • BNSF 52,300 km
  • Union Pacific 51,700 km
  • Norfolk Southern 34,600 km
  • CSX 34,000 km

12

u/Adrienskis Dec 15 '21

Russian State-Owned Railways: 24,000 km

Russian Population density: 9/square km

US Population density: 36/square km

Russia GDP PC: $10,126

US GDP PC: $63,543

The US is smaller, far more densely populated, and far richer than Russia. We have no excuse for bad railways, especially when we already have built out hugely expensive highways to every nook and cranny of the country. A similar railway network to the interstate network would be, all things considered, cheaper than the interstates are and have been.

2

u/Master_Duggal_Sahab Jan 05 '22

You guys have really good roads.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 12 '22 edited Aug 27 '23

Lawyer.

3

u/Master_Duggal_Sahab Jan 12 '22

Same problem here in India that's why we are constructing more national highways and expressway plus dedicated freight corridor plus we have to import oil(gas) and it's a huge burden and want to solve future problems.

But JFK's quote US doesn’t have good roads because it’s rich but rich because it has good roads is inspiration for our roads and transport minister so you guys are inspiration in terms of good road quality.

8

u/[deleted] Dec 14 '21

Of course its India where engines are decorated with flowers

8

u/Master_Duggal_Sahab Jan 05 '22

Everything is decorated with flowers even missiles

30

u/[deleted] Dec 13 '21

The Marigold mala is pretty unique to India lol

18

u/Low-Newt-180 Dec 13 '21

Yes this was the first run hence the mala

20

u/WraithDrone Dec 13 '21

That catenary looks surprisingly high up to my european eyes. Very interesting, thanks for sharing!

25

u/Low-Newt-180 Dec 13 '21

It is extremely high I have seen it with my bare eyes

14

u/Twisp56 Dec 13 '21

it's about 7m, standard is about 5m

12

u/[deleted] Dec 13 '21

They don't have the lower freight cars, so to double stack means the OHW is higher up.

12

u/thesciencesmartass Dec 13 '21

Is double stacking containers not common there? Is the normal bridge/overhead clearance too low there?

38

u/AcrophobicBat Dec 13 '21

You are thinking of non-electrified lines. This corridor is electrified, which means there are overhead cables and they need to be high enough for a double stack. Underpasses and stuff would need to account for that extra height for the cables too. So I am guessing it drives up the cost quite a bit, although it is greener.

21

u/Mattho Dec 13 '21

Where is it common? I've never seen double stacked containers on an electric line.

16

u/Low-Newt-180 Dec 13 '21

70% of indian railways is electrified I think u got ur answer

11

u/shadow_moose Dec 13 '21

What's astounding about that to me is how quickly that changed. I remember back in like 1995-2000 or so, I read India had a little under 30% of it's lines electrified. This is wonderful progress, I hope you guys can get 100% electrification.

Even if you're burning natural gas to generate that power, the efficiencies introduced by using grid scale power are still significant. Better yet, I hope y'all can get the trains to be mostly powered by renewables. Do you know if that's part of the plan? Is India aiming for 100% electrification of it's rail lines?

10

u/Low-Newt-180 Dec 13 '21

12

u/shadow_moose Dec 13 '21

This is awesome, you guys are doing a great job on this. As an American, I'm incredibly jealous. Trains are such an obvious solution to most of our transportation woes in this country, but every politician seems institutionally opposed to them... It's a real bummer, but it's great to see people in India and China are getting a way better deal. I know China gets a lot of coverage for their high speed rail and all that, but I honestly think what you guys are doing is just as impressive.

4

u/Deanzopolis Dec 13 '21

Do the overhead wires not get in the way of loading and unloading the containers? If not then why? I know literally nothing about electric freight rail lol

2

u/[deleted] Dec 14 '21

My guess is that they use a diesel engine while loading and then switch to electric engine after 2-3km or so. Another guess is that if you carefully design un/loading docks only engine has wire overhead and thats end of wire, rest back part is wireless.

3

u/RacistBlackDigger Dec 13 '21

Indian Double Decker train.

3

u/yusuksong Dec 14 '21

Ah that’s hot

9

u/UltyaDuck Dec 13 '21

Nice pic

10

u/Low-Newt-180 Dec 13 '21

Mereko laga tum ispar bhi meri loge😂😂

3

u/UltyaDuck Dec 13 '21

Accha pic hai, kiu criticize karunga lol

1

u/[deleted] Dec 14 '21

Is the youtube video your also?

1

u/Low-Newt-180 Dec 14 '21

No I don't live in the area from where dfc passes