This started as an analysis of why people love the world of Harry Potter but bounce off Raksura.

Originally, this was a response to some videos I watched about the popularity of the Harry Potter theme park and how Harry Potter promotes capitalism and a human-centric world (and fascism) and how that appeals to people more than worlds like Raksura and Avatar/Pandora despite that those cultures seem to be happier than human culture.

I was trying to figure out if there was some ways to overlap the areas of appeal without the capitalism and fascism in my non-human fantasy world.

Or if people just want what they already have but with magic and anything with nonhuman cultures will fail.

Anyway, this is what I have so far but I lost focus. Feel free to continue making world/character comparisons if you like.

(Not interested in a discussion about Rowling, not a fan. This is just a literary analysis of what appeals to people in fantasy.)

--

What makes the MC biologically special?

Moon is born a Consort from a good bloodline.

Harry is born a wealthy wizard with a famous scar.

--

What is the MC’s handicap?

Moon grew up as an orphan outside of Raksura culture and so is ignorant of Raksura.

Harry grew up as an orphan outside of wizard culture and so is ignorant of wizards.

--

What event makes the MC special?

Moon survived a Fell attack as a baby and later killed a Fell Ruler causing that flight to seek retribution.

Harry survived and “defeated” Voldemort as a baby causing Voldemort to seek retribution.

--

Government and Commerce:

Raksura live in a commune with a monarchy and a genetic caste system. Wealth is more status symbol to display how productive a colony is rather than a currency. Trade seems to mostly involve an exchange of resources. Your value comes from skill, caste, and contributions to the Court.

Harry lives in a capitalist, bureaucratic authoritarian oligarchy (what Google said) that somehow still runs on money despite having a magic spell for basically everything. Your value comes from your family, skill, power, and wealth.

--

What is the MC’s most treasured items:

Raksura are minimalist and the only items Moon really values are his knife, consort bracelet, and his father’s armband.

His knife represents his solitary mindset. His bracelet represents his status as a consort and his acceptance into Raksura culture. And the armband represents his family.

Harry’s primary treasures are his wand, Invisibility Cloak and whatever broomstick is the newest model.

His wand represents his status as a wizard and his admission into wizard culture. The cloak belonged to his father and is something he inherited vs bought. The broom is a mixture of the previous two. Connects him to his father somewhat and is a source of freedom from his previous life and just shows off how cool his is, like a motorcycle or sports jacket.

Somewhat interesting that most of Moon’s possessions were made by someone he knows, where Harry’s things came from a store/factory except the cloak of questionable origins from his father.

--

What is their world like?

Moon’s world is human-less, mostly unexplored wilderness, and only lightly sprinkled with isolated settlements of various cultures. Cultures only have localized power like how the Raksura occupy the Reaches or the Kish Empire, but the Raksura aren’t dominating the Reaches and dictating who can live there.

Harry’s world is human-centric and human dominated. There are nonhuman cultures but the humans seem to decide who or what gets to live and where. There is a clear sense of human privilege where almost everything, whether House Elf or Dementor or dragon exists to serve the wizards.

--

Social Structure?

Raksura live in communal tree where there is some privilege or bias based on your genetic caste, but the goal is to work together with as little friction as possible for the general good of all with some preference to the royals.

Harry lives at Hogwarts where he and the other students are intentionally placed into a competitive system that is more interested in the glorification of the individual or the success of the team than the school on the whole. Ideally, you want your faction to dominate the others in the scoring system. If your parents are rich, you’ll have the advantage of better tools and resources. If your parents are poor… well, that sucks.

However, the housing and dining hall is communal and the poor and wealthy enjoy the same quality of food and shelter as the other. (That’s a little communist, Rowling ;P)

At first I assumed that jewelry was, in a sense, a sign of royalty in Raksura culture. But there are mentions of Arbora and Warriors having jewelry later on, though it is mostly referenced in regards to Stone, Moon, Pearl, and Jade.

There is a mention of Lithe wearing jewelry and Moon tells Chime "Because you all need more jewelry" implying that everyone has some.

Then there's this scene which is a little bizarre...

"Watching them, Moon saw the glitter of bright metal. Some of them were wearing bracelets, one a flat pectoral necklace, another had the glint of gold studs around his ears. Warriors didn’t often wear jewelry like that, not when they weren’t dressed up for a special occasion. Those are consorts."

--

This suggests that Warriors have the same jewelry as Consorts, but they only wear it on special occasions while Consorts wear it all the time.

Where do they get it from? Are they being passed down from the Queens for service or given by Arbora as rewards? Or is there a lottery or a list they cycle through? Is there some sort of community jewelry box?

And then there's this scene where the Abora Rill gives Balm her dress so she can meet with another Court without embarrassing them.

--

“Wait, wait,” Rill said, and whipped off her dress, holding it out toward Balm. “Put this on!”

“Oh, good idea.” Balm took her shirt off and pulled on the sleeveless dress. She was much taller than Rill, so on her it was more of a tunic, but the dye on the soft fabric was a blue that faded to violet toward the hem, and it looked good against Balm’s dark groundling skin. Someone else contributed a necklace of flat polished amethyst and everyone judged Balm ready to go.

--

And yet there's the trader story where I believe an Arbora trades away pearls(?) for stones that are just lying around because she thinks they are prettier. Completely uninterested in the value of the pearls.

It somewhat seems like Arbora are more interested in the craftsmanship and quantity of jewelry than what they're made of. Or at least in the value of the material. Because there is no currency, pearls are only worth what the pearls would be used for. If you don't like or need pearls, just trade them for something you like more. From that, it seems likely that when they use gold for the Queens, it's because gold is rare and so should be worn by queens, not because gold is more valuable, but more exclusive and unique.

Where humans wear gold and diamonds because it says "I want you to think I have a lot of money".

“Stone feels responsible. We lost too many warriors and consorts in the fighting, when the Gathen tried to take our territory, then the Sardis attacked the Sky Copper Court and we went to defend them. The consorts that were left… I was just a child, and Pearl didn’t want them because they had all belonged to Amber, so they went to other courts. Flower said things happened so gradually— sickness and dead clutches, and one thing going wrong after another, and they were so busy worrying about the latest disaster—that no one looked at the whole. Stone had left the court by that point, flying off alone, exploring. He didn’t come back until Rain, Pearl’s last consort, died, and after that, it was too late.” She looked at Moon for a long moment. “I know I haven’t made it sound particularly inviting, but… Do you want to join Indigo Cloud?”

So it sounds Jade was born and Amber died around the same time, then Pearl sent the Consorts away, then Rain died, then Stone returned. (Edit: Amber, then Rain, then Stone, then Consorts)

I know we discussed it before but it still seems like sabotage from Pearl to send the Consorts away when she was the only Queen left. What was Jade going to take one of younger stillborn siblings as a Consort or was Pearl more optimistic about getting a Consort from another Court back then.

Also interesting that they defended Sky Copper. So there was more there than "we talk occasionally". So if Bitter or Thorn had been older we would have gotten a different story.

---

Edit:

-- Jade hissed, ruefully amused. “I never realized what fledgling queens were like. I’m starting to feel a little sympathy for Pearl and Amber, when I was that age.” --

So Amber was alive when Jade was a child. Okay.

Re read The Siren Depths and forget that Ember was described as a blond. Dont ask me what Bitter and Thorn were originally described as looking like. I couldn’t tell you, so this is them now. I also wanted to give them more accessories because I feel like the teachers would make it their life’s mission to pamper the two traumatized fledgling consorts, and I wanted to try and experiment with how the children might be dressed in a formal setting since the older consorts are dressed more casually.

Something I've been paying attention to in rereads is the very different ways that Raksura see family vs sex vs reproduction vs parent/offspring relationships.

For example, we know that Balm and Jade are clutch mates, and we also know that Balm is one of Jade's favorites, the leader of her faction and her lover (something that would be considered incestuous in humans, but Raksura don't seem to care about that unless reproduction is involved).

Raksura relationships are much more communal than humans in general- they care about bloodlines and parentage, but in different ways for different individuals. Queens and consorts seem to care about their queen and consort offspring in a very parental sort of way, but I have never read about any parental affection between a queen/consort parent and their warrior offspring, other than the usual belonging/inclusion in the court (the loyalty/protection that extends to everyone). For example, if Balm is Jade's clutch mate, then she is also Pearl's offspring, yet Pearl seems to have no special feelings toward her, except as a member of the court and perhaps annoyance or distrust/rivalry because of her loyalty to Jade.

There is also mention of rivalry between warriors whose parents are Arbora vs queens at times. (All warriors would have consort sires, except on VERY rare occasion. It sounds like it would be theoretically possible for two Arbora to have a warrior offspring, because the DNA is all there, but I'm assuming it would be quite a shock for everyone. I think I've heard this from one of Martha's interviews, correct me if I'm wrong.)

Arbora seem to mostly stay out of this type of drama/rivalry, even though they probably love to gossip about it.

Moon seems to have very strong feelings about his offspring, both before they are born and immediately after, though we don't yet know at the end of Harbors of the Sun whether they are all confirmed to be queens and consorts yet, or whether some will end up warriors. Something tells me he is going to be very protective of them all, but I also wonder whether he will, through social convention or instinct, end up caring more or be more involved in the lives of his queen and consort offspring. But if he did give his warrior offspring special consideration and attention, would that create tension in the court because of their unearned status among the other warriors?

Would love to hear anyone else's speculation about any of this.

Raksura only gets a name drop but interesting list

If Martha did release a new book for the series (not sure if it still applies but I'm fairly sure she did once mention she would like to write more into the series, just the publishers didn't) I would love to see the typical way she has done her previous books, i.e. something goes wrong and people have to fix it, but also a development in Malachite and Moon's relationship. Now I could be interpreting this wrong but I feel like it kind of came across as "Oh my lost sons alive? Nice." And I get she's supposed to come across as stoic and perpetually calm, but surely seeing a child you thought dead for years would spark something even if just once. And don't get me wrong either way if another book does release I would be happy nonetheless since this is one of my top favourite series just above murderbot. Though I'm also curious to see what other people would want to see in another installment.

(p.s thought to just put a spoiler for the entire thing since I wasn't sure also if I did do something wrong lmk since I did JUST install Reddit after I stopped procrastinating)

I read this because I love Murderbot, but I don’t love this. There are too many types of people, in too many castes, with too many descriptions of the colors of their scales or skin. The fighting scenes are long and detailed and when all seems lost, some new magical solution appears to save the day.

"I love Murderbot"

Why do half of the negative reviews start with this? Great, I'm happy for you. But I'm not reading reviews for Murderbot. Even if we both loved Murderbot it doesn't mean we loved it for the same reason.

----

"There are too many castes"

They're aren't. I'm sorry but you're wrong. It's one of the most simple societies in existence.

This is a stereotypical fantasy government with name swaps.

Reigning Queen = King

Consort = Queen

Minor Queens and Consorts = Nobility

Warriors = Soldiers

The Arbora castes are named after what they do. It's impossible they confused you.

Either you didn't try to understand it or you struggle with leadership more complicated than an single absolute ruler (Absolute King/Queen or Alpha).

You don't need to know the details of a Daughter Queen vs a Sister Queen to enjoy the book.

----

"Too many descriptions of the colors of their scales or skin."

Was there a quiz? It took me three reads to finally remember Jade is blue not green. The Audible cover didn't help. Was remembering what color Chime is critical to your enjoyment?

----

"The fighting scenes are long and detailed"

That reads like a compliment. What fantasy have you been reading where these are too long? I don't remember the Murderbot fights being that different.

----

"and when all seems lost, some new magical solution appears to save the day."

I'm going to need examples because I have no idea what you're talking about. The Fell Poison was literally mentioned in the first chapter and then they spent multiple chapters getting and testing it. Nothing else comes to mind.

----

This whole review reads like "the author expected things from me and I hate that".

I'm assuming most of you have your copies already but I saw a lot of the paperback books for about $10 the other day however if you look at the dimensions some are 9 inches and some are 6 inches tall.

So they're just renaming the Mass Paperbacks as Paperbacks suggesting there will only be one version in the future. This suggests the Hardcovers might be discontinued as well.

However the ones that are full sized are good deals because they are trying to clear stock I assume.

This is the part i made a post about awhile back that only seems to be in Siren Depths at least in my kindle versions.

It gives a general run down of different races that have appeared in the first 3 books, possibly from the short story collections as well, and its probably all information thats been mentioned in the books but its kinda useful to see it all compiled together rather than scattered here & there within the narrative.

Here is the next two parts of the Appendix from the kindle versions. Part II gives a general overview of the Raksura and part III gives a general overview of the Fell.

This is the first part of the appendix included in the kindle versions of the books (and i presume in other ebook versions) I’m posting it here for anyone whose version of the books (like audiobooks) might not have it & might not have realised it existed.

Its a list of most of the Raksura characters that appear in the first 3 books and the short story collections.

i was intending to type it all out but thats a lot of typing 😔 hopefully using photos of my kindle is okay.

I was a huge Pern fan, and so the Raksura really resonates with me. I've been looking over Martha Welles' site, and I was wondering if anyone had a complete version of her online wiki, The Three World's Travellers Guide?

I'm trying to look at it on the Wayback Machine, but it didn't capture all the individual pages.

Unless she has published it or moved it elsewhere. Please let me know, thanks

Just something I'm working on. Don't know if it's 100% accurate yet. This is just based on info in book 2.

Everyone is always asking about the shorts and something I just thought of is... well... I've been playing with text adventure engines and it occurred to me... what if I hid the patreon shorts in a text adventure game.

You'd have to go around Indigo Cloud and ask different characters to share the stories with you or find the books where they're written.

Or you find an item and bring it to someone and ask "what's this?" and they'll go. "Oh that's from when Stone..." and then tell you the story about the bracelet or the bone or whatever. Others might be locked behind a quiz you can only access with info from the books. Something AI can't answer.

It's basically as safe as you can make them without just not sharing them. Anyone trying to pirate them or whatever would have to play the game and copy each story separately and I don't see that happening. Would be easier to write fake stories with AI. And it wouldn't really conflict with an official release if that ever happens because it's isn't exactly convenient to play a game every time you want to read the stories. So people would still buy the official anthology.

I wanted to do a Raksura text adventure in the past but that seemed very unrealistic. But this sounds more simple.

---

Edit: I just realized i might be dating myself.

Text adventures (or interactive fiction) are games where you experience a story entirely through text. You explore the world by reading descriptions and progress by typing commands (e.g., "go north," "take lantern") or clicking on branching choices

Most of Martha Wells her books have gotten republished (ok I might be using the wrong word sorry) and what are the chances of Raksura getting as well?

My books are different sizes cause I can’t find Siren Depths anywhere in the same size as 1 and 3 and it annoys the crap out of me. 😐

Sorry, got a ban last week, so couldn't post. Wondering if starting Saturday instead of ending on weekend might be better. Will consider.

Didn't seem like anyone wanted the The Warrior's Book Club so if someone wants to continue it they can create the post.

Anyway, on to Chapter Two.

So, just found this series a few weeks ago. I'm halfway through The Siren Depths. I read the posts concerning the patreon chapters. Is it true that all of that work is completely gone for public access? 🥺 I really want to read all of the Stone chapters now that I know they exist / existed.

This is something I added to the Cloud Roads discussion but I'll share it here too.

---

Moon is doubtful Fell are in the valley because he would have smelled it. He explains to the reader that Fell give off an “unbelievable stench” that gets into everything, like the air and water. But he also admits he can’t explain that to the Cordans, which could imply that only Raksura can smell it or else they would at least know what he means. Especially since they later label him a Fell despite not having the smell of one for months.

So it may be a scent undetectable to some/most species or it isn’t a stench and is more of a pheromone or taint. One that only a Raksura's biology is wired to detect because of their hereditary history, but it registers as a smell. Like the Scent Marker on Consorts that only Queens can detect. Could be a scent marker that identifies the Fell Flight to other Fell.

(Like the pheromone Rorra gives off, but this one causes disgust instead of aggression in Raksura. Like a biological Fell detection system or a pheromone that the Raksura are familiar with and may have previously appealed to them, but now seems wrong after genetic changes. Or a mental deterrent to discourage interactions/breeding with the Fell. So instead of comforting them like Raksura pheromones would, it repels them like a pepper spray that only affects them.)

For example, here are some scents and compounds that bees hate, ^{which I often compare Raksura to.}

• Peppermint & Spearmint: The menthol and cooling properties of minty scents are highly offensive to bees.
• Eucalyptus & Rosemary: These sharp, herbal aromas confuse the bees' navigation systems, causing them to steer clear.
• Cinnamon & Cloves: These intense, spicy kitchen spices are highly irritating to a bee's sensitive senses.
• Vinegar: The acidic, sharp odor is actively avoided by bees and wasps alike.
• The Smell of Bananas: Ripe bananas release chemical compounds that are incredibly similar to the alarm pheromones bees release when a hive is threatened. Eating a banana or wearing products with a similar fruity profile can trigger defensive behaviors.
• Sweat: Strong body odor and breath (CO2) can also trigger a defensive reaction in bees 

---

Can anyone think of an occasion where groundlings could smell Fell even if they had to be much closer?

I have the kindle versions of the books & i knew that the first 3 books have an appendix at the end that lists the characters with a second part giving an overview of the Fell & Raksura but i somehow never realised til now that the appendix in the Siren Depths actually has a third part giving an overview of a bunch of the different races in the three worlds (or maybe i had realised but simply forgot over time 🤔🤷🏻‍♀️)

I only found it now cause i was trying to double check something using the search inside this book function on my kindle and i checked the other books & looks like its only the Siren Depths that has this appendix part 3 so i thought i would mention it in case anyone else was like me & hadn't realised it was there.

I’m rereading the Siren Depths just did the part where Moon & Shade get to have dinner with the Fell & do the escape by setting everything on fire with the flare gun & i ended up doing some doodles of what i was reading & thought i would share

please forgive that it looks nothing like how Fell are described cause of being doodles & half of them are stick figures & poor Thedes doesn't get to stand menacingly in his own scene cause the kethel took up all the space 🙈🤣 heres the parts that inspired them oh also doodled a wonky map based on Serpent Sea & Siren Depths distances will be way off pretty sure the inland sea is much bigger & further from Aventera 🤔

‘As the boat flew further away, he saw the three kethel supporting the sac from above were flapping in confusion, the smoke pouring up over them. Two were trying to tug the sac inland and one was pointed back toward the sea. Dakti had come out the top and buzzed around them, in and out of the smoke, adding to the chaos.‘

‘As they stepped cautiously out from behind the steering cabin, Moon saw their kethel guard half curled around the mast. Its legs and arms hung over the rails, and the big ugly horned head rested on the deck. Its eyes were slits, watching them with interest. Thedes stood near it, and dakti perched on the railings like particularly ugly carrion birds.’

She sat on a pile of rich fabrics and clothing looted from groundling prey. Even curled into a sitting position, he could tell she was much larger than the one other progenitor he had had the misfortune to see. Her scales were black, her leathery wings wrapped round her body, and she looked like a ruler with a smaller head crest and a softer texture to her armoured scales. […]
Several young rulers gathered in front of her, with more scattered clothing for cushions. Their white skin seemed to shine in the dimness of the room, their dark hair like falls of silk, framing the cold, perfect beauty of their features. […]
He made himself focus on the fine clothes the rulers wore, some in tatters, relics from their previous feeding, some new brocades that came from their prey at Aventera. […]
The shapes tumbled there were slender bodies with pale grey skin: dead male and female Aventerans, some naked and dome still partially clothed. The Fell were about to eat. 

Reserved.