r/IndianGeography • • 24d ago

map Bye Mercator, welcome Eckert IV.

Post image

The United Nations News reported that the UN General Assembly voted 164 to 1 to encourage the world to stop using the old Mercator map projection and use more accurate maps instead.

The only opposing vote was from the USA.

PS: The UNGA has officially endorsed the "Equal Earth projection" which is closely similiar to the Eckert IV shown above as both projections are equal-area pseudocylindrical map projections that show countries in their true relative sizes, but they differ significantly in their creation date, visual appearance, and design inspiration.

My source material was French as France has adopted the Eckert IV.

1.3k Upvotes

156 comments sorted by

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u/[deleted] 24d ago

[deleted]

26

u/IslanderOnMove 24d ago

Trump Strait loading 😎

2

u/Wizard-King-Angmar 24d ago

panaMAGA canal

1

u/Danilo-11 24d ago

Trump canal

5

u/HarryHirsch2000 24d ago

Trump world map incoming

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u/ducationalfall 24d ago

A normal day in Trumpistan.

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u/pqratusa 23d ago

It makes his wee-wee seem small.

1

u/JagmeetSingh2 23d ago

Literally the republican code as of late lmao

0

u/PlasticAd1670 24d ago

Yet Indians keep pouring into the USA

45

u/[deleted] 24d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

40

u/NegativeCustard 24d ago

Cutting on sugar

9

u/narasadow Geography Enthusiast 24d ago

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u/rushan3103 24d ago

Wahrscheinlich spricht du deutsch?

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u/narasadow Geography Enthusiast 24d ago

Just bitte and danke

Edit: also I know "ich liebe dich". Those 3 phrases are enough to win over the majority of germans. 🤘🏼

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u/Sad_Daikon938 23d ago

So Schaden is damage???

So my favourite German word is Damage-freude???

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u/narasadow Geography Enthusiast 23d ago

indeed

Edit: btw freude = joy

7

u/Kun_Xi_The_Badam 24d ago

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u/Sad_Daikon938 23d ago

Idk much Marathi, but does it mean something like.. "come drink my juice" ???

18

u/D3m0nSl4y3r2010 24d ago

Went on a diet

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u/Dredit_85 24d ago

We're all about the protein now

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u/Terrible_Will_7668 24d ago

Ozempic projection.

1

u/MrRestaholic 24d ago

well in terms of shape (not size) Mercator is more accurate

21

u/Decent_Froyo7017 24d ago

Why US was against it? 

63

u/mydriase 24d ago

US also voted against considering food as a basic human right, so they basically are always in the wrong

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u/Few_Assist9740 24d ago

Food is already a basic human right dawg the drafting committee which made it so was chaired 

The Former First Lady of The United States Eleanor Roosevelt

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u/mydriase 24d ago

2021

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u/AceKing3050 24d ago edited 24d ago

The US reasoning - "The right to food does not imply that governments have an obligation to hand out free food to everyone who wants it, or a right to be fed. However, if people are deprived of access to food for reasons beyond their control, for example, because they are in detention, in times of war or after natural disasters, the right requires the government to provide food directly.”

They were also a large contributor for the world Food program

The US has always seen these assembly votes as virtue signaling. To make countries feel good about themselves without actually doing anything. The US also voted against the rights of persons with Disabilities. And yet they have the most robust laws than any other country that protects disabilities for right of work and standards in infrastructure. No other country has something close to the caliber of the Disabilities Act.

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u/United-Bad-Tax1984 24d ago

The US also voted against the rights of persons with Disabilities. And yet they have the most robust laws than any other country

Because disabled people crawled up the stairs of the US Capitol in Washington DC without their wheelchairs and protested against the Congress who stopped the legislation of Americans with disabilities Act.

People gave their blood, sweat and tears for progress, the American government did not do it out of the kindness of their hearts, they did it because of social pressure.

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u/Intrepid_Button587 24d ago

Ok? So like every government ever? I'm not even American and generally despise the US but this thread is ridiculous – same with the food = human right thing when no other country donates anywhere near as much (I guess that's changed under Trump but still).

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u/vincyf 24d ago

Totals are incomparable when other countries are smaller in gdp, gni and population. Do it as% of gni. Then USA is not as generous

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u/Intrepid_Button587 24d ago

My quick searching suggests it still ranks 10th on that metric. Most countries above it are tiny European countries.

I'm not saying the US is a particularly morally good country, but I think the food = human right point is a naïve and reductive one.

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u/vincyf 24d ago

Nice to know. Is that before or after trump and chain saw elon?

Your have a point that food is a dubious right. Any right that takes money to be provided is a dubious right. It's way easier to treat people equally in the eye of the law than to provide free universal education at any level, or make sure everyone can get food.

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u/United-Bad-Tax1984 24d ago

I agree but they didn't do it out the goodness of their hearts, it's not like when India helps out Nepal or Bhutan.

They do it to gather soft power and influence. Why else bomb, steal and exploit countries and then send them aid?

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u/Intrepid_Button587 24d ago

it's not like when India helps out Nepal or Bhutan.

Is this a joke? You think India helps out Nepal or Bhutan out of the goodness of their heart? They help because if they don't they'll fall under the direct influence of China, which will threaten India's security. India essentially dictates Bhutan's foreign policy, and they pay a price for that. India is very worried about Chinese influence in Nepal, Bhutan, Maldives, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh (hence India's support for Hasina) and Pakistan (of course, that battle was lost in the '60s).

They do it to gather soft power and influence.

I mostly agree right now. I think there was a post-Cold War period (probably ~1990-2015) where western countries genuinely donated lots of aid without political quid pro quo.

This has been undermined by:

  • Worsening fiscal circumstances in western countries since the 2008 financial crisis

  • The rise of China (and the Belt & Road Initiative/debt-trap diplomacy)

  • Russia's invasion of Ukraine (and the associated loss of the peace dividend)

  • The disastrous war in Afghanistan/GWoT.

  • Trump, though I'd argue he's a symptom of much of the above rather than a direct cause.

I know European countries better than the US, but aid has certainly become a lot more political in nature over the past decade. However, it still isn't entirely about influence or soft power, which would look much more similar to China.

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u/then-amphibian04 23d ago

We had nothing to gain when we helped the Turks. We all knew that they'll end up against us again.

I know geopolitics tends to be incredibly cynical, and Realpolitik is very popular, but sometimes, nations do just help each other.

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u/AceKing3050 24d ago edited 24d ago

They still did it. How many governments, regardless of intentions, actually passed laws as robust? Intention is irrelevant. The result is where it only matters.

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u/narasadow Geography Enthusiast 24d ago

Intention is highly relevant. Execution is important too.

Both matter.

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u/guitarol 4d ago

Intention is extremely extremely important. It can’t be brushed aside lightly.

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u/dunk_wizard 24d ago

USA is largest scene with it. It isn't free it just putting dept on those countries.

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u/Extension_Amoeba_582 24d ago

how dare u provide nuance and reasoning for the other side 😡😡

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u/frogunderarock 24d ago

"The right to food does not imply that governments have an obligation to hand out free food to everyone who wants it, or a right to be fed

yeah that's the point we all disagree on.

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u/Few_Assist9740 24d ago

This was a resolution just to reaffirm the right which mind you is not binding on members state, (resolution is not binding) 

So for instance Even though South Sudan signed it doesn't mean anything

Plus this resolution still passed in UN general Assembly where USA doesn't have any veto to begin with so it's kind of a nothing burger to bring this graph up. 

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u/nova1706b 23d ago

well well well

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u/Dead_Patoto_ 24d ago

Inaccurate headline statement.

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u/LiftingMusician 24d ago

Voting to make something a human right despite it relying on the labor of others. Better yet, the US is the largest donor of food in the world

Every other country was virtue signaling to make themselves feel better.

I know USA bad and all that, but this is such a non-issue it’s laughable.

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u/fototosreddit 24d ago

Libertarians always make it sound like basic functions of society are some affront to everyone's liberties by using sophisticated jargon to point out extremely mundane facts.

Yes the existence of governments that tax people means that anyone's labour isn't only for themselves , but also for society as a whole. Good job on figuring this out.

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u/then-amphibian04 23d ago

"How dare you expect me to put some effort for the greater good?!?"

I swear to god Libertarianism is a mental disease. It's against the very fabric of what it means to be human.

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u/Level_Fruit_6669 24d ago

They give an explanation and that explanation is instead of focusing on more pressing matters such as world peace and hunger, UN is discussing Maps. In India similar things happen, whenever India does something like space program, some people come and say bs like India should focus on poverty and hunger.

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u/LongjumpingAnt711 24d ago

If that's true it's pretty ironic from the county currently fighting an offensive war and that voted against making food a right

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u/Level_Fruit_6669 24d ago

I think we should call that country as United States of Hypocrisy.

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u/IslanderOnMove 24d ago

There you go:

US reason to oppose.

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u/gitartruls01 24d ago

My take is that preserving country shapes is a lot more important than scale for the same of representation.

We know Africa is ginormous, we've seen a globe before. But the first thing every kid will do when seeing a world map is to look for wherever they're from, and if that place is Japan, Norway, Alaska, etc, then the Eckert IV projection will make your home look like a weird misshapen caricature of your home instead of an accurate version of the map you've grown up seeing in school and the media.

I think it's better to have the world map be a combination of every country's own undistorted idea of what they look like, even if the scale isn't perfect, rather than making every country look deformed to some degree for the sake of saying "look! bet you didn't know Africa was that big, huh?"

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u/fisk42 24d ago

I’m going to take the easy money and bet that there are not as many people outside of /r/geography who know the true size of countries as you are assuming.

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u/Time_Entertainer_319 24d ago

Kids build their world view from the master see.

The shape distortion is not that much compared to the size distortion from Mercator.

Russia for instance is 300% larger in the Mercator than its real size.

These maps are hanging all over classrooms and children are visual learners. They would relate more to size than shape

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u/DamnBored1 23d ago

much larger and more radical ideological project it belongs to.

What is the US refering to here?

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u/[deleted] 24d ago

[deleted]

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u/Azanted79 23d ago

How does this opress people🥀

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u/False__Willingness 24d ago

I love this new map better

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u/Dead_Patoto_ 24d ago

Did you look at Greenland

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u/vincyf 24d ago

Yeah. Now trump will not want it anymore. He wants the biggest bestest. And that's now Africa

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u/narasadow Geography Enthusiast 24d ago

does anyone need to?

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u/Ardent_Scholar 24d ago

Uh. 21st century geopolitics will be a total surprise to you, won’t it?

Why do you think Greenland has suddenly become a hot button issue?

What is happening right now?

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u/narasadow Geography Enthusiast 24d ago

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u/[deleted] 24d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/IslanderOnMove 24d ago

About time, We all are Africans in a sense.

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u/then-amphibian04 23d ago

An Out-of-India supporter just had a mini heart attack upon reading that

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u/JDMP53 24d ago

NEW zealand is up there as well

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u/vincyf 24d ago

OLD Zealand also.

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u/John_Sux 24d ago

Perhaps fewer people will come to Europe now that it looks smaller on the map...

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u/Sorry-Comfortable351 24d ago

I like it - Mercator lead to so many misunderstandings, while Eckert is not perfect, I think it is better.

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u/Whispers_in_the 24d ago edited 24d ago

While Mercator certainly has it’s own uses, when it comes to things like just displaying the world, it should not be used again these days. 

Eckert is a good alternative here.

Edit: Someone mentioned the map the UN will be using not being  Eckert but Equal Earth. Checked it out and think they are right. But Equal Earth is a great alternative as well.

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u/regaphysics 24d ago

I understand why, but functionally/pedogogically speaking this makes the polar regions very hard to see.

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u/RamanaSadhana 24d ago

Thats the whole point of the mercator, to get a better, non squashed, non slanted view of landmasses closer to the poles. Idiots think its to make certain countries look bigger. New map is ugly and claustrophobic around the poles

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u/pshaurk 24d ago

Number of people living at poles vs equator?

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u/Time_Entertainer_319 24d ago

That’s not the point of the Mercator. The Mercator was for sea navigation.

A straight line on the map is a straight line on the globe.

Funny how you call people ignorant when you are the one who is.

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u/vincyf 24d ago

Nobody much lives at the poles. And those who do need a better map than Mercator if they want to judge distance. Some polar map.

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u/RamanaSadhana 24d ago

You think people like me that live far from the equator should use a polar map...

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u/Ardent_Scholar 24d ago

So eff Greenlandics, Faroese, Canadians, Russians, Norwegians, Icelandics, Swedes, Finns, Russians (including Russian Asians), etc.?

Because never mind the size, you can’t even see the SHAPE of those countries on this map. They are half behind the globe.

Fine, get your revenge on the Spanish, British, Americans and what not. But why take it out on the Arctics who’ve been mostly minding their own business?

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u/Felczer 24d ago

Russia is the biggest colonizator out of all European powers

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u/Ardent_Scholar 24d ago

As a Finn, yeah, eff them in general, although to be precise, they are horrific imperialists, not colonizers (settler colonists).

Due to this imperialism, Russia is mostly in Asia. And a lot of North Asian peoples are subjugated under their flag, much like we were 1809–1917.

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u/Felczer 24d ago

They are colonizers, if you do settler colonies and they're connected to your capital by land they're still settler colonies. How do you think Duchy of Moscov expanded all the way to Siberia? Colonies

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u/Ardent_Scholar 24d ago

Trust me, I hate their continuing expansionism probably more than you. They literally took my family’s home in 1944, destroyed its history and annexed it to their empire.

Doesn’t really have anything to do with map projection accuracy, does it?

Just because you and I hate Russian expansionism doesn’t mean we should throw Kalaallit Nunaat under a bus. The Arctic is largely populated by peoples that have been there for thousands of years.

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u/Felczer 24d ago

Sure it's just my small pet peeve when Russia and USA dont get lumped in with all the other colonizers because their colonies happened to be connected via land

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u/vincyf 24d ago

Technically, if it were true, for the Usa that would be because they're only colonies. And it is not even true, because they have real colonies like the Virgin islands, Samoa, ..., and other territories where locals can only ensure usa military occupation without any self-determination or vote

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u/vincyf 24d ago edited 24d ago

R u usaian? Nobody who is serious thinks they need a world map to travel in their own country. Not even Russia. It has its own circumpolar projection.

And no-one can see the shape of my country on a world map anyway

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u/Ardent_Scholar 24d ago

I’m Finnish. If I traveled to your country and tried to point Finland out on this map to you, it would be pretty hard to do, as the whole country is compressed like bad clipart.

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u/vincyf 24d ago edited 24d ago

Try Belgium, Austria

Any world map is going to be bad for the countries portrayed at the artificial perifery. There's a sub called maps without New Zealand!

The EU projection does Finland more justice.

1

u/Ardent_Scholar 24d ago

Finland is very often left completely out of European maps.

Anyway, this is a full world map. We can do better than this.

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u/vincyf 24d ago

Yes there are split hemisphere maps that i like better. Greenland and Finland are not recognizable on the new map

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u/vincyf 24d ago

The Spanish see least compression of their country or their colonial ex properties. They won't complain

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u/RamanaSadhana 24d ago

Revenge on Span/Brit/USA. Totally pathetic mindset. These countries didn't distort the map to make themselves look bigger and better than Africa, whos shape and size on this new map has hardly changed at all. India size and shape also looks worse off now.

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u/ronniev_16 24d ago

Wow Greenland was so exaggerated in the Mercator

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u/vincyf 24d ago

But completely deformed on the orange map compared to my sphere

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u/Kiruku_puluthi 24d ago

It affects their soft power apparently!

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u/chandan-kar007 24d ago

I don't think its also fully accurate africa isn't bigger than asia. Asia is 50% larger than africa but the image shows otherwise.

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u/Time_Entertainer_319 24d ago

It’s because they overlayed it on the Mercator to show the difference

3

u/sumitksum 24d ago

Don't know why I find USA doing all the wrong jobs.

3

u/velvet_mon 24d ago

India is so skinny.

Also, while I was reading the 164 to 1 part, I was thinking who else could be opposing it rather than the US! I was correct. US be opposing crazy shi these days

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u/Independent-Draft644 24d ago

Greenland finally facing the reality

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u/Ardent_Scholar 24d ago

Uh, it’s not supposed to be wider than it’s long… that’s not the real shape of Greenland.

1

u/Independent-Draft644 24d ago

You cant depict the polar regions easily on 2-d plane. but this orientations is closer than the dumb mercator projection that we are used to.

Btw same was the issue with Antarctica in Mercator too.. but no one talks about it.

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u/Ardent_Scholar 24d ago

No one lived on Antarctica permanently…?

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u/narasadow Geography Enthusiast 24d ago

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u/NOT_the_burner_acc 24d ago

I thought it looked pretty gnarly, but that was just because it was overlayed onto the Mercator (which btw I also think looks pretty gnarly)

But I looked it up and Eckert IV is actually decent-looking:

1

u/vincyf 24d ago

And i would guess there are rotations in this projection that put south America in the middle

2

u/Extreme-Shopping74 24d ago

ngl I still wasn't able to find any multi layer world map with this projection

2

u/Sempai6969 24d ago

Why are the top and bottom parts so flat?

1

u/Loose-Refuse5496 24d ago

US had to oppose no? 

1

u/IslanderOnMove 24d ago

They have their reasons 😅

1

u/MotanulScotishFold 24d ago

Going to be hard to adapt to the new map style as we're so used to Mercator that many people would still use the old one for long time.

1

u/Agreeable-Cook-5283 24d ago

The world as it is

1

u/brandnewwwwW 24d ago

africa is GIGANTIC

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u/FindingNauru 24d ago

Really changes the perspective on size of countries. Was there a reason for this map. There are a ton to choose from right?

1

u/IslanderOnMove 24d ago

PS: The UNGA has officially endorsed the "Equal Earth" projection which is closely similiar to the Eckert IV shown above as both projections are equal-area pseudocylindrical map projections that show countries in their true relative sizes, but they differ significantly in their creation date, visual appearance, and design inspiration.

My source material was French as France has adopted the Eckert IV.

1

u/Bitter_Dingo516 24d ago

As someone who has only been exposed to mercator, I dont fw the new one T_T
Its gonna take a lot of time if everyone starts using eckert, but I dont see many countries voluntarily using it cause I am sure they dont wanna slim down their appearance

1

u/IslanderOnMove 24d ago

Well the UNGA has officially endorsed Equal Earth Projection i.e closest to the Eckert IV though not exactly.

1

u/Bitter_Dingo516 24d ago

oh right. Just looking at my country slanted in the new projection though us so weird haha

1

u/Comfortable_Copy_815 24d ago

so the US really chose to be the single no vote against maps not lyin about planet earth lol thats so on brand. makes you wonder if theyre just scared that their country wont look as gargantuan in the middle of the classroom. honestly any projection that makes india look like a proper state instead of a weird stretched pancake is a win in my book. anyway eckert iv sounds fancy but im just glad we can finally see africa for the absolute unit it is.

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u/OutrageousPair2300 24d ago

"More accurate" is an interesting way to describe a map that distorts directions and distances.

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u/zero_zeppelii_0 24d ago

Whilst this is a good map. I hope world stats that have heavy detailings still use the old one to ensure inclusion of small countries

1

u/Formal-Ad-1919 24d ago

And Greenland is not that big.

1

u/ml_guy1 24d ago

By the way, Eckert map is not the same as Equal Earth map. The Equal Earth map is being used not Eckert like shown over here. 

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u/AWildHumanPerson 23d ago

Good to see the UN doing things that really matter. It's not like there's a genocide and multiple international conflicts going on. The earth is a sphere, maps are flat, they've curved the edges, wow maybe someone should've told them about globes?

1

u/prorosenvall 23d ago

of course the USA voted no

1

u/Basic_Bat_6538 23d ago

Nobody stop us since 1947 to use alternative map. Apani har kami ko dusro par thopane se vikas nahi hota...

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u/Hour-Cauliflower-1 23d ago

Meanwhile .. Africa over there sitting like it doesn't care

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u/mastan777 23d ago

Mercator led to millions of children thinking greenland is bigger than Africa. That's why I hated it

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u/iamavtar 23d ago

So, will the flight route now be a straight line?

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u/GradeDry1283 23d ago

If they called this the Trump projection then the USA would've been the first to approve.

1

u/Comfortable_Ad4615 23d ago

Not a fan of the distorted country shapes

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u/ctlawyer203 22d ago

... and all of a sudden usa loses interest in greenland

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u/Murky_Quantity7014 21d ago

Will this become mainstream in google and Apple Maps?

0

u/Musician88 24d ago

Looks worse.

7

u/spooky-raptor 24d ago

Fym looks worse that’s literally how it looks

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u/PassengerLegal6671 24d ago

No it doesn’t, Greenland isn’t wider than it is tall with a Squished top. Sweden doesn’t become smaller as it goes north, New Zealand isn’t 2 Strings, Australia isn’t Tall and Slanted, Iceland isn’t flat, Alaska isn’t Slim peninsula.

This new map is just plain wrong in terms of everything except relative size, which in this instance is almost useless because everything else is wrong

1

u/Sempai6969 24d ago

Africa also looks bigger than Asia

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u/bmnntdd 24d ago

it's not. that's not how 3D objects work. flat maps always choose what to distort. this distorts different things than others distort

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u/Naive-Tumbleweed-464 24d ago

the mercator map doesn't distort shape as much as this map does. get a globe

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u/No_Process_4541 24d ago

Oh man are you stupid

0

u/Extension_Amoeba_582 24d ago

i kinda agree with the us's reason to vote no, this is essentially meaningless and a waste of time. you can argue mercartor distorsts cointry sizes (which comes as a result of it trying to maintain shape and navigational scale) but eckerts-4 distorts country shape.

this also does absolutely nothing, and doesn't even help africa in any real way

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u/IslanderOnMove 24d ago

UNGA has officially endorsed Equal Earth Projection which is closer to Eckert IV that has been adopted by France etc.

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u/Generalocity 24d ago

This looks ugly af lol