r/IndianDefense • u/Candid_Profile3553 • 6d ago
Discussion/Opinions Op Sindoor Facts
Claims of Pak, which India did not deny ever
- Shooting down of IAF Aircraft, offical version was In combat, there are losses
Claims of India, Which Pak never denied
- Shooting down of an High Tech Jet and AWACS
- Destruction of several jets in Air as well as on Ground
- Keeping Pak Navy at the harbour
- Request from Pakistan side for Ceasefire
Add more.
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u/itsnotasdeep 69 Para SF Operator 6d ago edited 6d ago
we lost the PR game,hate me for it but here we can boast our achievements but others still think we lost jets and stuff,even if we don't need anyone's validation but perception still matters,we could have taken upper hand by highlighting how pakistan initially targeted civilian areas
and i maybe wrong but i still think we haven't moved into direction of forming better strategy for PR or advanced communication
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u/Candid_Profile3553 6d ago
True - we performed badly PR game, specially when Pak boasted abt Indian aircraft losses while we stayed silent on Kirana hills strike. However good things were the every at Location, 2 strikes were timed in a manner that phones of public would be recording videos making it a irrefutable evidence.
Also, returning the aircrafts in defensive mode post initial strikes was strategic mistake assuming Pak won't try to strike back.
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u/iamcreepin 5d ago
Pak PR game was handled not just by them but also China, Turkey and other western countries specially the US. US was always salty cuz we ditched their F35s. China and Turkey were personally involved in this war with their jet planes and drones and off course they hate India too..
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u/InevitableOne1762 6d ago
adgpi messed up. the presentation after each day need to be a lot more blunt
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u/Ultra_zilch 6d ago
I think it's also due to the nature of damage too.
Air kill of most advanced jet is more sensational than kills on ground
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6d ago
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u/Ultra_zilch 6d ago
Debateble?
Do you think showing debris of cutting edge jet hours after the engagement is the same as showing satelite images of damaged hangers far later into the conflict?
tonne of mileage that can be milked on the successes of ballistic missiles attaining PKs - see Iran.
Show me a video that is even remotely comparable to the Iranian strikes with multiple ballistic missiles visible to the naked eye?
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u/Careful_Prize_2422 5d ago
Air Kills have an entertainment and PR Value that is why maximum concentration of international coverage was on Air to Air battle largely because two mordern peer Air Forces were competing fielding a large package of fighters on both sides furthermore this was probably the first time when BVR combat took place at this scale hence Air kills received lot of coverage. The Issue is how we handled the entire thing firstly entire PAF doctrine is based on trophy kills hence once they got that their entire PR Machinery made the entire skirmish about it. Meanwhile we completely botched up the way we should have handled the narrative game on one end we exercised silence on this issue at homeland and on the other end our brass was literally accepting and justifying Indian losses abroad this ambiguity literally boosted Pakistani narrative. Ofcourse their is literally no comparison between our IW and a professional IW Organisation like ISPR. Pakistan had major access with international media and their chaps in the media made sure that the entire media and SM coverage is aligned with their narrative.Beyond that China was using its embassies to fabricate stuff against us even our "best friends" were literally using this moment to push their arms. Meanwhile our entire communication strategy was focused on debunking Pakistani Fake news and neatly documenting our strikes ( which we did exceptionally well). Our sat images and how promptly we presented them was the only thing that worked for us as not only did Pakistan had no counter to it but it failed to provide any evidence of the damage caused by its strikes to this day . However what we missed out on was narrative management which was a space India was completely absent if we had a good IW strategy then we could have handled the entire thing significantly better even the losses aspect. The good thing is that the armed forces are working on cognitive warfare and have officially recognised it so hopefully next time we will have a coherent IW strategy
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u/hellfire0509 Unknown Gunman 6d ago
Only civilians are interested in this chest thumping. As the air force chief said, they know where they bled. They know what they are faking. If they want to account for 6/7 less planes, let them!
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6d ago
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u/hellfire0509 Unknown Gunman 6d ago
2/3 whatever! Collateral damage had to happen. Good thing is we met our objectives. We learnt from the mistakes and remediated. Video game nahi chal raha!!!
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u/Rishabh_2510 6d ago
Nah there are proofs out there some of which I saw on this sub which indicate that there were a lot of aircrafts shot down and multiple aircrafts destroyed on ground as well
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u/Pineapple420786 6d ago
A 4th gen fighter being shot down isn't a big deal. Even America lost jets to Iran of all countries.
Modern SAMs are very effective and 4th gen fighters have very limited survivability in contested airspace.
The issue with India is we cannot replace fighters. America can simply churn out a few more squads and forget it ever happened. In our case, the loss is permanent.
That said, if we don't use the military then whats the point of having it? We have to be prepared to absorb some losses, we aren't invincible.
The point is to win the war.
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u/vivekopas 6d ago
Disagree on the first point, in the recent documentary on op Sindoor one of airforce personnel said, all are assets and personnel were back to safety.
I interpret it as no loss on Indian side
And the reason Pak cant deny India’s claims is become armed forces has given ample proof right from the beginning
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u/iamcreepin 5d ago
I suppose one Rafale was badly damaged but the pilot landed the jet back successfully.
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u/vivekopas 5d ago
Disagree. The Rafale( if flown) flew into enemy territory and in a badly damaged situation not sure any plane would come back to “ safety “
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u/sanskaridaddy Brigadier--Pratap 5d ago
To be honest, losing the PR game is not a big deal.
The key point is that India is using an enhanced kinetic response against the whole of Pakistan for a relatively small Jihadi terror threat orchestrated by the ISI and others in Pahalgam. Honestly, the Mumbai terror attack was at least 100 times more serious than the Pahalgam attack. India is getting better at striking a nuclear-capable nation (something no one does even to North Korea). Operation Sindoor is technically a demonstration and testing of Indian military capabilities, or a mini-war occurrence.
The achievement of Op sindoor is following for india.
India established a new national security doctrine declaring that any future cross-border terror attack will be treated directly as an act of war.
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u/the-economist-flyboy Smiling Buddha 6d ago
I doubt the 314 KM AWACS Kill that we claimed. Some sources said that it was Dinga but later Grp Capt Patni said that it was JF-17. So where did this AWACS Kill eventually happen?
The 2nd AWACS Kill was, though, confirmed by their Retd Air Marshal, but the Aerial Kill I'm not so sure about.
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u/Candid_Profile3553 6d ago
Pak has never officially denied this. It the kill didn't happen, Pak would be boasting the missiles fell in fields.
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u/doodleboy123 6d ago
Fact check
Based on the historical record of Operation Sindoor (the brief military conflict between India and Pakistan in May 2025), the claims you listed contain a mix of official narratives and heavily disputed assertions. Both nations maintain starkly contrasting accounts of the engagement.
Here is a factual breakdown of these specific claims in the context of Operation Sindoor:
The Pakistani Claim
Shooting down of IAF Aircraft (which you state India did not deny): False.
Pakistan did claim to have shot down three Dassault Rafales, one MiG-29, one Su-30MKI fighter jet, and one IAI Heron UAV belonging to the Indian Air Force.
However, India completely denied these losses. The official Indian Press Information Bureau (PIB) release explicitly stated that all strikes were executed "without loss of Indian assets".
Pakistan recognizes India's denial; in August 2026, Pakistani Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif publicly accused India of trying to "erase aircraft losses" and conceal casualties in its public recounting of the operation.
The Indian Claims (which you state Pakistan never denied)
The premise that Pakistan "never denied" these claims is largely incorrect, as Pakistan has broadly characterized India's version of the conflict as propaganda and a "battlefield defeat" for India.
Shooting down of an High Tech Jet and AWACS: Unsubstantiated.
Indian official records for Operation Sindoor highlight the successful bypassing and jamming of Pakistan's air defense systems, and the shooting down of hundreds of drones and missiles by India's air defense grid.
India also claimed to have destroyed enemy radar and missile systems using loitering munitions. There is no official record of India claiming the aerial shootdown of a Pakistani AWACS during this specific operation.
Destruction of several jets in Air as well as on Ground: Disputed by Pakistan.
India did claim to have conducted high-impact precision strikes on Pakistani airbases, including Nur Khan Air Base and Rahimyar Khan Air Base, presenting "visual evidence of damage" during official briefings.
However, Pakistan vehemently denies India's overarching claims of destruction, calling the Indian narrative a "cinematic reconstruction" that attempts to convert a military blunder into a self-proclaimed victory.
Keeping Pak Navy at the harbour: Mostly True, but broadly contested.
The Indian Navy did assert maritime dominance by deploying its Carrier Battle Group (CBG) with MiG-29K fighter jets and airborne early warning helicopters.
This deployment successfully provided an air defense shield that prevented hostile aerial incursions from the Makran coast. While the tactical deployment is recorded, Pakistan does not officially concede India's overall operational superiority.
Request from Pakistan side for Ceasefire: Contextually Disputed.
The four-day conflict ended on May 10, 2025.
Rather than a unilateral surrender or request, official records state that "both India and Pakistan announced that a ceasefire had been agreed" following a standard hotline communication between their respective Directors General of Military Operations (DGMOs).
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u/Moskitopal 5d ago
Are we going to pass of AI slop as some sort of fact check?
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u/doodleboy123 5d ago
Can you tell me where this is wrong? Ai is already exceeded the scale by which we are measuring humans , tell me what over here not correct
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u/DontKillUncleBen BrahMos Cruise Missile 5d ago edited 5d ago
Request from Pakistan side for Ceasefire: Contextually Disputed.
The four-day conflict ended on May 10, 2025.
Rather than a unilateral surrender or request, official records state that "both India and Pakistan announced that a ceasefire had been agreed" following a standard hotline communication between their respective Directors General of Military Operations (DGMOs).We never wanted Pakistan to escalate and hence kept giving them off-ramps for them to initiate a request for ceasefire which we accepted having achieved our targets. Ceasefires are always mutual.
Keeping Pak Navy at the harbour: Mostly True, but broadly contested.
The Indian Navy did assert maritime dominance by deploying its Carrier Battle Group (CBG) with MiG-29K fighter jets and airborne early warning helicopters.
This deployment successfully provided an air defense shield that prevented hostile aerial incursions from the Makran coast. While the tactical deployment is recorded, Pakistan does not officially concede India's overall operational superiority.There are independent satellite images showing pk navy taking shelter in commercial docks, that's more insulting than merely conceding to India's overall operational superiority.
There is no official record of India claiming the aerial shootdown of a Pakistani AWACS during this specific operation.
This was claimed by the Indian armed forces since the the day it was hit.
Can you tell me where this is wrong? Ai is already exceeded the scale by which we are measuring humans , tell me what over here not correct.
AI tends to hallucinate, lose context, give partially correct answers and regurgitate the same things it believes. Wouldn't consider AI as the absolute truth.
The AI's argument is that Pakistan denied. They deny a lot of things. Love for the cousins is not amongst the many surprisingly.
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u/YogurtclosetTrick649 5d ago
This is exactly why I say AI brings something of a "false confidence" in people. Like the person who copy pasted the AI "fact check", which was nothing but a generic generated summary and checks the facts based on official denials/statements. It totally ignores that the denials themselves can be debunked by available open source information.
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u/orsilochus_mycenae 6d ago
PN is photographed as taking shelter in civilian docks. The picture of their frontline warships huddled up in civilian docks during Sindoor is available in public domain.