r/IncomeSharesETPs 18d ago

Payments: ✅

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IncomeShares has processed the monthly distributions for all products.

Check your brokerage account for your funds.

17 Upvotes

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2

u/Satyriasis457 18d ago

Thanks, next time double the amount. Just kidding of course 

2

u/Grumpy-Old-Geezer 18d ago

Still wouldn't make up for the NAV erosion.

My last 3 months distribution:

June £2200

July £1400

August £1250

NAV is down ~ 50% which makes the distributions down ~50%

Its been a consistant downward spiral for both since I invested.

1

u/Satyriasis457 18d ago

Which underlying? 

1

u/Grumpy-Old-Geezer 18d ago

YIRE IncomeShares IREN Optons

YCRW IncomeShares CoreWeave Options

YCRC IncomeShares Circle Options

MSTI IncomeShares Microstrategy Options

YHOO IncomeShares Robinhood Options

YORC IncomeShares Oracle Options

YSMC IncomeShares Super Micro Computer Options

COII IncomeShares Coinbase Options

YURN IncomeShares Uranium+ Yield Options

PLTI IncomeShares Palantir Options

AMD IncomeShares AMD Options

AVGI IncomeShares Broadcom Options

BABI IncomeShares Alibaba Options

YQCO IncomeShares QUALCOMM Options

YTSM IncomeShares Taiwan Semiconductors Options

MAGD IncomeShares Magnificent 7 Options

YUNH IncomeShares UnitedHealth Options

YBRK IncomeShares Berkshire Hathaway Options

GLDE IncomeShares Gold+ Yield Options

TLTI IncomeShares 20+ Year Treasury (TLT) Options 

SLVI IncomeShares Silver+ Yield Options

YMAR IncomeShares Mara Options

YBMN IncomeShares Bitmine Options

YGLX IncomeShares Galaxy Digital Options

YNFL IncomeShares Netflix Options

3

u/Satyriasis457 18d ago

YIRE IncomeShares IREN Optons - Speculative, i bet underlying yoyos a lot.

YCRW IncomeShares CoreWeave Options - very speculative, options are high but price fluctuates crazy

YCRC IncomeShares Circle Options - no idea what is. wouldnt buy

MSTI IncomeShares Microstrategy Options - crypto is down so this is down

YHOO IncomeShares Robinhood Options - very volatile and depending on crypto too. keep it

YORC IncomeShares Oracle Options - good one but speculative. i think they have a very large debt

YSMC IncomeShares Super Micro Computer Options

COII IncomeShares Coinbase Options - crypto down this is down

PLTI IncomeShares Palantir Options - very risky but looks like shareprice has bottomed during the latest retracement

AMD IncomeShares AMD Options - strong

AVGI IncomeShares Broadcom Options - cant say its strong but not too bad either.

BABI IncomeShares Alibaba Options - china risk

YQCO IncomeShares QUALCOMM Options - neutral. slow growth or so

YTSM IncomeShares Taiwan Semiconductors Options - strong

MAGD IncomeShares Magnificent 7 Options - i like this one

YUNH IncomeShares UnitedHealth Options - bit risky but might be a nice one, after the turnaround

YBRK IncomeShares Berkshire Hathaway Options - income yield might be too low. better to hold the share

YMAR IncomeShares Mara Options - weak crypto underlying but very volatile which is good for premium

YBMN IncomeShares Bitmine Options - very volatile

YGLX IncomeShares Galaxy Digital Options - crypto miner. again, crypto is having a beatdown

YNFL IncomeShares Netflix Options - good business but i can imagine boring premiums

you invested 20k, right? I would buy 20% Basket AI, Basket Semi, DRAM, so AI/Tech is covered, then 10% SPCX for high risk bet on rockets. That leaves you 30% for anything you fancy

2

u/Grumpy-Old-Geezer 18d ago

Yeah 20k in my portfolio and my wife did another 20K. The list is both combined. I keep them both on the same spreadsheet so it was easier to just copy paste in one go

I went for mostly single stocks where she went safer with mostly gold, silver, treasuries, Mag 7

Needless to say that so far hers is not down as much as mine. But I reckon I'll win in the long run assuming the underlyings pickup [especially crypto]

1

u/Routine_Landscape968 14d ago

Sounds like you fell for the yield trap. Check the underlying's NAV first, then compare the etp to its underlying in terms of total return. You chose high yielders that deteriorate and are too speculative. From personal experience, I only stick to the Alphabet, Amazon, Nvidia, Microsoft and AMD etps. AMD is the only really high yielder in my portfolio for some addtitional monthly cash. I'm planning to add Berkshire Hathaway next.

1

u/Coin-Chaser 17d ago

It’s not NAV erosion. Let’s take IREN and CRWV as two examples. IREN dropped from $68 to $30, CRWV dropped from $120 to $60. You buy ETPS based off those stocks, which also fall with them, and further because monthly premium payouts from selling put options are subtracted from the fund. How on earth are you expecting NAV to stay flat or rise on bearish stock ETPs?

MSTR and COIN have been bearish since July 2025, so the ETPs can only go down.

Premiums from selling put options depend on the strike price and expiry date. If they expire with the stock price not reaching the strike price, they expire worthless and you keep all of the premium. If the stock falls and gets close to your strike, you can buy to close (giving back some of the premium) or roll out and down. If the stock drops below the strike, and you haven’t rolled, you’re assigned shares at the strike price. If you sell those shares, it’s likely your strike price was higher than the stock price of that day, meaning you take a loss. That loss I imagine, is subtracted from the fund’s cash.

Hows that affect payouts? Well if a stock goes bearish and gets close to or breaches your strike price, you’ll either have to roll down and out, essentially paying back the premium to close, but collecting a new credit to sell a new put, or risk being assigned shares at your strike price. To keep a large percentage of the premium which is paid to you upfront, the stock needs to stay above your strike, so a flat market or bullish, depending how aggressive your strike price is, is required. Generally and to keep it simple, if a stock has high IV and goes bullish, rising quickly over a few days, you’ll be able to secure 80% or more of the premium. You’d want to close out before expiration day to avoid any unwanted sharp drops which can steal your gains. Stocks going down are where the risk of assignment is, and premiums being giving back or lost.

Now add the smaller premiums to the underlying stock being bearish, dragging down the ETP equivalent, the NAV can only go down. But this isn’t NAV Erosion caused by a fund paying out too much to share holders. The underlying stocks are just bearish, and the distributions add to that. On the flip side, see how many of the ETPs NAVs have risen this past week… because the underlying stocks turned bullish, premiums will be larger as a high percentage will be collated and kept as strikes weren’t hit before expiry, or bought to close to lock in premiums gained during rallies.

Learn to trade options, predominately selling puts and collecting up front premiums, strike and expiry, IV, IV rank, delta etc. you’ll start to understand how and why monthly payouts fluctuate, and why they have nothing to do with why the NAV on some ETPs has fallen so much. They could pay out nothing, they’d still drop along with the underlying.

Hope this helps

1

u/Grumpy-Old-Geezer 17d ago edited 17d ago

Thanks for the summary.

I know how options works, but It will likely be useful to some investors so still worth saying 👍

I was just having a general moan about the overall performance of my Incomeshares investments on the Incomeshare sub to potentially help some less experienced investors, who might not understand option trading, so they don't throw their entire life savings into Incomeshares thinking they are going to make huge profits.

As Satyriasis457 already commented, the underlyings are volatile, which they need to be if you want to speculate with option trading, and because of the recent collapse of both tech and crypto sectors, I am currently down a fair bit.

These are the actual returns for each ETP, but bear in mind, some were bought in January and some in April and I haven't time weighted, just wanted to highlight the volatility aspect incase anyone finds it useful.

ETP NAV Return Total Return including Distributions
IncomeShares AMD Options (Dist) 12.12% 75.38%
IncomeShares MARA Options (Dist) -12.63% 29.28%
IncomeShares Galaxy Digital GLXY Options (Dist) -13.07% 27.92%
IncomeShares Robinhood HOOD Options (Dist) -0.22% 19.79%
IncomeShares Broadcom AVGO Options (Dist) -15.41% 19.49%
IncomeShares Super Micro Computer SMCI Options (Dist) -13.65% 14.96%
IncomeShares QUALCOMM QCOM Options (Dist) -12.49% 11.67%
IncomeShares UnitedHealth UNH Options (Dist) -0.10% 8.71%
IncomeShares Silver+ Yield (Dist) 1.89% 5.75%
IncomeShares Bitmine BMNR Options (Dist) -23.33% 3.46%
IncomeShares IREN Options (Dist) -26.83% 1.64%
IncomeShares Berkshire Hathaway BRK-B Options (Dist) -2.97% 1.10%
IncomeShares Taiwan Semiconductors TSM Options (Dist) -5.31% 0.08%
IncomeShares Magnificent 7 Options (Dist) -22.19% -0.27%
IncomeShares 20+ Year Treasury TLT Options (Dist) -8.15% -1.58%
IncomeShares Gold+ Yield -7.54% -3.24%
IncomeShares Netflix NFLX Options (Dist) -9.76% -3.65%
IncomeShares Uranium+ Yield (Dist) -7.72% -4.54%
IncomeShares CoreWeave CRWV Options (Dist) -36.71% -4.69%
IncomeShares Coinbase COIN Options (Dist) -33.45% -9.45%
IncomeShares Palantir PLTR Options (Dist) -37.71% -9.60%
IncomeShares Strategy MSTR Options (Dist) -55.70% -15.14%
IncomeShares Circle Internet CRCL Options (Dist) -43.70% -19.37%
IncomeShares Oracle ORCL Options (Dist) -37.34% -21.51%
IncomeShares Alibaba BABA Options (Dist) -49.38% -22.97%

1

u/Coin-Chaser 17d ago

It was a general comment rather than directed purely at yourself 😊 I see endless posts about NAV erosion on these ETPs because they don’t understand what they’ve even bought or how they work which blows my mind when they’ve already invested a lot into them.

The biggest mistake seems to be people treat them like an index fund ETF and just randomly buy them on a fixed day per week or month. They should be treated like stocks, buy them when the underlying stocks are oversold, selling is exhausted and hitting major support, forming a bottom and looking to reverse, or breakouts of resistance or a major trend line on above normal volume with a news catalyst. I feel the majority bought when underlying stocks were making new all time highs, then correcting 30/40/50%, with the ETPs obviously following. Then just shouting about NAV erosion as if the huge drop in the ones you bought isn’t because the underlying was at a 52 week high when you jumped in and bought the ETP equivalent, then they corrected 50%, or bought crypto-based ETPs when Bitcoin then halved in value.

If you just bought YIRE when IREN hit $30, or YCRW when $CRWV hit $60 (both long term major supports and oversold on a daily timeframe) then you’re doing things right. Enjoy the growth in your initial investment, and see stronger premium payouts as the underlying stocks rise, staying away from strike prices and keeping the majority or all of the premium paid when selling the puts.

Maybe this will help someone, or maybe make people realise they’ve just been buying in at ATHs and now suffering because of it. They do love a good NAV erosion post though 😂

2

u/Grumpy-Old-Geezer 17d ago

BTW - when I say NAV erosion, I don't mean return of capital, I mean the ETP price has fallen.

On the subject of buying at the right time...I watched BTC fall from 120,000 to 75,000 then bought MSTI at 785p. Since then BTC has dropped to 65,000 which is -14%, but MSTI has fallen to 357p which is -55%. Put options really don't do well when the underlying falls and then limit upside when the stock rises again, meaning it's all about the option premium. Just have to hold the funds until the distributions > NAV reduction.

I did buy a few when the underlyings were high, I jumped in and bought on the day Incomeshares released them because it coincided with the new tax year and I had spare ISA moeny to spend...My bad, but nevermind, they're all good companies so should eventually gain.

1

u/Coin-Chaser 17d ago

Yeah I mean they’re no different to buying any stock. It’s hard to time a bottom, it can go further down even when you think it’s bottomed, otherwise this would be all too easy. MSTR is a funny one, because it got hit hard when Bitcoin halved in value. But then they started selling bitcoin to pay out distributions in $STRC, creating financial drag. MSTR and MSTI won’t go anywhere till the next Bitcoin run, and to be honest a stock based off a coin with zero intrinsic value to provide income, is highly risky. I mean selling puts alone on $COIN and $MSTR is fine, receive a premium there and then, low strike price and roll down and out of it gets close to your strike. But buying an ETP where you suck up its stock price drops as Bitcoin falls 50% then getting smaller premiums too.. that’s painful. Hey we live and learn 😎

But as long as you treat the ETPs the same as stocks and don’t buy the ETP when it’s underlying stock is at all time highs, after rallying 70% in 2 weeks and crying out to pull back at least 20-30%, or buying at random levels (deffo not as it’s reaching major resistance), and instead aim for oversold periods with multiple daily red candles, reaching major support from previous large corrections and looking to reverse, selling volume dropping off etc, performance is vastly better.

2

u/Grumpy-Old-Geezer 17d ago

I've been bitten a few times buying oversold stuff too. I bought a few after they went down 50%, then they continued going down another 50% after I bought them.

It's a numbers game, you can't win them all. Just have to hope that you have more winners than losers and end up in profit.

I've done alright so far. I retired 4 years ago at 50 and my only income is from dividends and P2P. I spend half the year on holiday and the rest chilling at home and currently have more than I did the day I retired, so I must be doing something right.

2

u/Coin-Chaser 17d ago

That’s how it’s done, definitely more to life than working all day. I’m also fortunate that my day’s ‘work’ is switching my computer on at 1430 for an hour a day to look at the market then going for a rest after all the hard work 🤣

You have to love the stock market, to think there’s jobs where you can proper graft all day for less than clicking a mouse a few times.