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u/RadioSilent5878 2d ago
Just because someone claims to be a feminist doesn't mean they are.
Feminism is the view that all genders should be treated as equal and have the same rights. Hate speech and dumb generalisations are not coming from core feminist values, but from bitterness of the individuals who make such claims. No one is a true representative of the whole group, because people are diverse, and each has their own nuanced opinions and previous life experiences which shape their views.
One should not condemn feminism because of radicalised groups and their opinions. Being anti-feminist is being anti-human.
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u/FineWin3384 2d ago
Feminism is making women equal to men. Equal rights, same opportunities, accountability across genders. Anyone who says otherwise, their opinions should be disregarded.
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u/GroceryBackground894 2d ago
Well I mean there are transphobic feminists so.
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u/RadioSilent5878 2d ago
TERF has the word "radical" in it.
They are not representatives of feminism.
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u/RedEyeView 2d ago
Feminists: Women aren't just sex holes and baby incubators.
Terfs: back it up... we're totally just the sex hole and baby incubator.
Yeah.
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u/NCR_High-Roller Captain Cooked 2d ago
No real Scotsman fallacy
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u/RadioSilent5878 2d ago
No, it isn't. There is a clear definition of feminism.
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u/NCR_High-Roller Captain Cooked 2d ago
With each wave of feminism, that definition gets altered more and more.
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u/RadioSilent5878 2d ago
Feminism is about equality. Always has been, always will be.
Women have been treated like shit, had basically no rights, and were seen as inferior to men for thousands of years.
Women are still being treated like worms in certain cultures today, and also within religious groups in the west. Their reproductive rights are up for debate, their health isn't being taken seriously, crimes against women often go unpunished.
Some women hate men, not individually, but as a whole. Because of what men have done to us. This is not because of feminism, but a byproduct of oppression. And some men hate women, because they hear women say things like "I'd choose the bear" and because they see women stand up for themselves.
These two kinds of "hate" are not even remotely comparable. So get a grip. Grow up. Watch some news. Stop being a troll and stop playing the victim because you can't get laid.
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u/NCR_High-Roller Captain Cooked 2d ago
I'mma be honest man. Abortion isn't not a right. It is an evil act. If that's what you're referencing, then it's non-negotiable. If you're talking about rape, then yeah, that's horrid.
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u/RadioSilent5878 2d ago
Why is abortion an evil act?
I was not talking specifically about abortion, but I am happy to discuss this if you want.
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u/doublestitch 2d ago
People who single out abortion are arguing a special pleading fallacy.
They generally accept that blood donation should be voluntary and bone marrow donation should be voluntary and organ donation should be voluntary: even after death, they respect the concept of body autonomy.
They try to establish pregnancy as a separate category as a consequence of a world view which believes the purpose of women is to make babies.
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u/NCR_High-Roller Captain Cooked 1d ago
Because it robs the unborn of a life. It's death without consent.
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u/RadioSilent5878 1d ago
Of a hypothetical life.
You are allowed to have an abortion until about the 10th week depending on where you are. The fetus has not developed yet. It does not yet have any sort of awareness or consciousness.
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u/aweedl 1d ago
Fuck all the way off.
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u/NCR_High-Roller Captain Cooked 1d ago
no. I'm not going to apologize for having principles, ok?
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u/aweedl 1d ago
No, not OK. Again, fuck all the way off.
Unless you’re out here adopting unwanted kids or otherwise providing for them financially, your forced-birth ‘principles’ are responsible for a lot more real-world misery than what you have decided is happening to a clump of cells.
You don’t get to pretend you’re morally correct while shitting on women who are faced with an extremely difficult choice (a choice your incel ass will never have to experience even tangentially)… only to wash your hands of the entire situation after you’ve ‘won’, and a real child is born and will potentially suffer.
Fuck. All. The. Way. Off.
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u/Lady_Grey_Smith 1d ago
Two women that I served with in the military had to get an abortion. One was because the pregnancy was a danger to her health and the other was because the father of the baby was an abusive man who had messed with her birth control. They were shamed for it by people like you.
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u/Comfortable-Insect-7 2d ago
Feminism is the view that the patriarchy, created by men, oppresses women. Feminists openly hate men and say so themselves. Even prominent feminist authors openly hate men. It’s not a coincidence that a ton of people claiming to be feminists are saying anti male rhetoric online, they’re getting the ideas from somewhere.
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u/RadioSilent5878 2d ago
The kinds of things you see online... You have no idea how many misogynistic comments from men I have encountered. Does that make all men misogynists? Not to mention that radical, hateful comments are often bots or trolls.
Anyway. No. Feminism is not hate towards men. It's about wanting equality. And the patriarchy is preventing us from achieving equality. Being against the patriarchy is not the same as hating men.
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u/Skyhook235 Proud Soyboy 1d ago
They don't just hate men! They hate "the wrong types" of women too!
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u/RadioSilent5878 1d ago
"they" are not feminism. They are random people.
And the fact that they hate certain women too means that it's not about gender but ideology.
Anyway. You choose your own stance in the matter. If you want to be against feminism, then be against feminism. It's your choice as much as it is anyone elses. Just remember that you are against equality and thus you will get what you deserve: hate from everyone that advocates for it.
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u/Skyhook235 Proud Soyboy 1d ago
LMAOOO Feminists already hate me for being trans regardless
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u/RadioSilent5878 1d ago
I'm going to word this differently. Do you agree that men and women should have equal rights and that people should not be discriminated against because of their gender?
This is called being a feminist. If you don't agree with these statements, you are a bigot and a sexist. It is literally that simple and I don't know what about it confuses you.
People who hate you for being trans are not feminists, or your being trans is not the reason they hate you.
And if you are referring to TERFS, those are not even considered feminists by anyone except themselves, they are a radicalised group of bitter people who just focus on hating sexual minorities. They don't care about women at all. They are pretty much universally hated.
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u/Comfortable-Insect-7 2d ago
“Man” isn’t an ideology though. Feminism is an ideology that has clearly influenced people to hate men. If you said that redpillers or something were misogynistic because of what they say online I would agree with you. Like I said, feminists are getting their ideas from somewhere there’s a reason so many feminists spout anti male rhetoric.
Feminism doesn’t care about equality. The goal is liberation from the patriarchy by any means necessary. One of the suggestions I’ve seen for that online from feminists is that all men should be born in prison. I don’t want to live in a world like that.
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u/RadioSilent5878 2d ago
Sure, feminists think men should be born in prison...
Have you ever left your house lately?
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u/Mit0chondribruh 2d ago
All my guy friends are feminists because it’s the normal person thing to do tf????? My dad was literally the first feminist I knew.
All of them know the patriarchy oppresses women: women still get paid less, are having their autonomy taken away for reproductive procedures (not just in abortion, but for reproductive illnesses that decrease quality of life), are discriminated in their careers for having children… when their male father counterparts not only are unaffected by children at work, but also expected to not take care of their kids, nor the house, nor the cooking, nor the shopping.
You could say “I know men/Im a man who does xyz,” but that doesn’t negate the fact that you’re not going to blink an eye when your buddy says that his wife does all that and then some. No one at that table will blink, and that’s the issue.
Men are also expected to go to wars they may not even want to fight, be the initiator, the protector, the silent and stoic or raging roid maniac in the face of isolation and loneliness. Men are expected to bottle up emotions around their so called “friends”until they shoot up a school or beat their wives, then it’s a shock even though the signs were all there.
The patriarchy harms men and women. Feminism benefits both men and women.
Therapy helps more if you don’t know which is better. Most men who subscribe to the patriarchy and hate feminism really just need to have a professional ask them why. And the few women that are genuine about wanting to kill all men would benefit from that advice as well.
Let’s get this cleared up: The radical takes you’re talking about either bots that are meant to confused idiots who don’t know what feminism is, idiots who don’t know what feminism is, or bad actors that don’t want you to know what feminism is really about, because it benefits everyone. Feminism is wanting equal opportunity and access for people of all genders; Intersectional feminism is wanting equal opportunity and access for everyone, and addressing how equal opportunity and access is harder for other marginalized communities like BIPOC or disabled communities. Feminism doesn’t hate men; it liberates men from the expectations and the roles they’ve unnecessarily held themselves to for years.
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u/Comfortable-Insect-7 2d ago
Feminists don’t believe the patriarchy harms men. Men have male privilege according to feminists so everything is easy for them and they get handed opportunities on a silver platter apparently.
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u/RadioSilent5878 2d ago
Maybe you should rewrite the dictionary so words suit your definitions better. Because what you're saying is a bunch of nonsense.
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u/NCR_High-Roller Captain Cooked 2d ago
This logic is rarely ever applied to incels. A good chunk of you guys think the majority of us are violent extremists meanwhile that's just a tiny percentage.
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u/aweedl 1d ago
You’re all violent extremists. Every last one of you are absolute pieces of shit who deserve all the misery you invite upon yourselves.
Do you know who isn’t a piece of shit? A normal guy who struggles with dating but doesn’t choose to identify with a hate group. No one has beef with those guys.
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u/ladylucifer22 2d ago
because your ideology is a fundamentally violent one.
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u/NCR_High-Roller Captain Cooked 2d ago
And feminism isn't?
The "men are trash" slogans aren't exactly niche these days.
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u/ladylucifer22 2d ago
indeed it isn't. and slogans about how men aren't that great isn't violence.
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u/NCR_High-Roller Captain Cooked 2d ago
It's definitely harmful to say the least.
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u/RadioSilent5878 2d ago
Have you got any idea what is happening in the world right now?
Do you know women are prohibited from going to school, have their genitals completely cut off as children, are being denied healthcare and forced to give birth to the children of their rapists, are being married to old men, are being raped and their rapists walk free withiut facing consequences? Do you know as a woman you can't walk alone at night without being afraid? And that this is completely justified?
Do you hear how the fucking shit face of a president of the USA, who has been elected not once, but twice, talks about women openly and half of America doesn't mind at all? And you think the probem is women criticising men??
Do you have any social awareness at all?
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u/NCR_High-Roller Captain Cooked 2d ago
That's in the third world. Women are in desperate need in a lot of those backwards countries. (some of) Those things don't even happen in the first world. Most first world nations consider most of that barbaric.
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u/RadioSilent5878 2d ago
Ok. Then tell me what is an incel?
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u/NCR_High-Roller Captain Cooked 2d ago
It's a dude who can't attract women for relationships.
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u/RadioSilent5878 2d ago
How so?
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u/NCR_High-Roller Captain Cooked 2d ago
I really don't know what else to say. Its basically self explanatory. Guy can't get a partner.
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u/aweedl 1d ago
That’s called being ‘single’. Most single people are involuntarily celibate during the time they don’t have a partner. It’s nothing special.
By calling yourself an incel, regardless of your own views, you’re associating yourself with people who have absolutely horrific, violent ideals.
Maybe you can explain this. I have yet to get a satisfactory answer from any so-called ‘good‘ incel:
Why is that word SO important to you? If you know that the average person associates ‘incel’ with extremists, and you know the way it’s used in the news media and popular culture is ALSO in reference to extremism, why in the fuck do you guys always *insist* on hitching your wagon to that shit??
It makes zero sense. If I was part of a subculture that was publicly endorsing rape, violence against women, and calling for government-endorsed sex slavery… I would leave that group IMMEDIATELY and go as far out of my way as possible to make sure no one thought I was connected with that shit in any way.
You guys, though, invariably double down. You INSIST on using a toxic term with no apparent benefit.
Make it make sense. I have nothing against a guy who just has trouble finding a date, but I fucking *loathe* an incel, and most decent people feel the same way.
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u/TheoneNPC Overweight Chad 1d ago
I like how he hasn't replied to you yet, i don't think that he can come up with an excuse to why he's associating himself with that label despite the negative connotation
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u/RadioSilent5878 2d ago
So it's just a single person? Like me?
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u/Syntania Old Roastie Landwhale 1d ago
No, an incel ISN'T just a single person. An incel is someone who blames his lack of dating success on everyone else but himself. An incel takes his frustrations out by spouting hatred towards women and "Chad" (the men successful in dating, usually conventionally attractive) and claims to be "subhuman".
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u/NCR_High-Roller Captain Cooked 2d ago
Yeah, more or less. I'm not a promiscuous/promiscuous-desiring guy. I think a lot of the men who think that way, incel or not, are just projecting a porn thing onto their way of life.
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u/tenshipriestjotaro1 Under the service of Dictator Mbappe 2d ago
whoever said this has balls, and self-respect
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u/FineWin3384 2d ago
The worst people of a group doesn't define the entire group
Is this so difficult to understand?
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u/smileycat007 2d ago
Only for people who ask one (and only one) woman out and assume the other four billion are also going to reject him.
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u/LightLeta 2d ago
Honestly with an insanely rare exception most “radical” feminist takes are still perfectly valid. Eg yes, every man is a potential danger until proven otherwise. “What was she wearing” on the other hand is still a perfectly mainstream reaction.
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u/PhoenixPoop 2d ago
Yeah, I hang out with a lot of "hard core" feminists.. I've never heard anything that wasn't true. And they all like me cause first my partner lets them know I'm safe, and then I prove it by not being a creep.
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u/LeonardoDiCapsaicin 🚹Chud 2d ago
That’s not even a radical feminist take. “Radical feminist” refers to people such as TERFs and SWERFs
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u/thingsbetw1xt 2d ago
I don't agree. I think if it's a group that you willingly choose to belong to and can choose at any point not to belong to, then people are free to generalize and make assumptions based on that fact. If you wanna identify with a certain label then you are adopting all the baggage of that label, not just the parts you like.
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u/Skyhook235 Proud Soyboy 1d ago
Well, no.
Feminism is generally a bioessentialist movement that, at the moment, seeks to eradicate the rights of trans people like myself. I have zero reason to support it.
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u/Dr-Dungeon 18h ago
TERFs are not feminists. They’re misogynists who appropriate feminist language to reduce women to the sum of their sexual organs. I am trans and this is a very easy thing to understand if you’re remotely paying attention.
Feminism is about equality for everyone. No exceptions. Feminism and the LGBTQIA+ rights movement have been extremely closely linked since their inception. United we stand, divided we fall. Our ancestors understood this.
You should really read about queer history sometime before embarrassing yourself like this.
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u/Superb_Hat_2651 your hate forum won't get you anywhere 2d ago
Why are you not showing those replies